Dangerous Forgeries

I recently made a post to my blog ( http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/ ) on
the subject of forgeries. The discussion involved ancient coins, however
techniques used by forgers know no artificial boundaries and can be used to
reproduce either ancient or modern coins. Forgery rings in Beirut, for
example, have been making deceptive imitations of ancient and modern gold
coins for many years.

After a short review of the subject, it discusses recent developments
listreaders may be interested in:
- the British Museum Forgeries
- a group of very dangerous Parthian coin forgeries
- surface artifacts caused by striking conditions
- high resolution surface profiling instruments
- surface artifacts as "fingerprints"
- recent legal actions regarding forgeries sold on eBay

It's my opinion that the baseline for deceptiveness is rising alarmingly.
The forgeries I used to see at shows years ago (back in the days when I
wrote articles on the subject for Coin World and World Coins) were mostly
rather easy to spot, and only a few really challenged experts. I could catch
almost anything with a good 20x magnifier and decent lighting.

Today I view forgeries aimed at deceiving collectors (as opposed to cheap
tourist fakes) as deceptive, very deceptive, dangerous and very dangerous.
It's getting to be difficult for a dealer to spot them in the bustle of a
coin show. Even cheap "Slaveys" can become dangerous with artificial wear
and a convincing false patina.

Despite some opinions to the effect that forgeries are becoming so good as
to be undetectable, I do not believe that this is the case. With enough
close scrutiny there will always be details that betray the forgery. The day
this ceases to be true will be sad not only for coin collectors but for
everyone, since the same techniques that make forged collector coins
undetectable will also make counterfeit coins undetectable. If coins can be
counterfeited undetectably, what about currency? Flooding our banking system
with undetectable counterfeit money would cause utter financial chaos.
Fortunately even the best efforts of the Nazi German regime and the current
North Korean regime to do this failed, even though the resources available
to a government with its own currency printing operations were used.

Dave Welsh
Classical Coins
www.classicalcoins.com

Dave Welsh wrote:
I recently made a post to my blog ( http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/ ) on
the subject of forgeries. ...
It's my opinion that the baseline for deceptiveness is rising alarmingly.
The forgeries I used to see at shows years ago ... were mostly
rather easy to spot, and ...
Today I view forgeries aimed at deceiving collectors...
With enough
close scrutiny there will always be details that betray the forgery.

Dave, thanks for this and thanks for your website.

I would amplify your warnings by pointing out that you only spotted the
forgeries you spotted. Of course, I understand what you meant, but the
fact is that every collector is an expert at some level and every
expert has their limits. Two rounds of Bulgarian fake Apollonians
fooled the usual expert dealers who did not look closely enough at
them. Even when the truth came out, people got bogged down in atomic
absorption studies and other irrelevancies. (That "atomic
authentication" proof was also suggested for the putative "Western
Assay Bars.")

The only way to know a fake is to know the genuine material. The
genuine example is the standard. We still have to do a close enough
comparison at some level. As you note, as the forgers' finesse
improves, we need a closer and closer look. You easily state that you
could always spot a fake with a close examination under 20-power. I do
not look at _anything_ that closely. So, I would be fooled -- as are
most other collectors and as are many dealers -- which is why we all
rely on the expertise of standard-bearers like you.

Even so, you only tagged the phonies you could tag. That is a paradox.
You do not know -- you CANNOT know -- about the ones that fooled even
you. Such must exist.

The problem is that if you -- or any other dealer -- says "I am often
tricked by fakes" that does not stand up so well in the marketplace.
Yet, that truth is unarguable. (Another paradox exists in unarguable
statements.) It is an easy claim that every dealer has fallen for
fakes.

That is what makes it so damaging to the hobby when a collector
declares that only a little study is necessary to spot counterfeits and
therefore counterfeits are NOT destructive to the hobby, but are
collectible in their own right.

Mike Marotta wrote:

That is what makes it so damaging to the hobby when a collector
declares that only a little study is necessary to spot counterfeits and
therefore counterfeits are NOT destructive to the hobby, but are
collectible in their own right.

......but Mike, they ARE collectable in their own right and demonstrably
so. You typically mix the issues involved into one hammer pounding
session and as a consequence diminish the credibility of any point you
might be trying to make.

Are all counterfeits dangerous? Possibly, but no more so than any other
generality, (including this one).

Are some dangerous? No doubt about it. All dangerous / destructive? In a
simple word, no.....unless the hobbyist is totally brain dead that is.

It is good to see people with Dave's obvious knowledge and status in the
coin community adding his weight to what many people have been saying
for quite some time about the quality of forgeries making their
appearance on the market (not only in relation to `ancients'). The need
to maintain vigilance is incumbent upon the dealer as well as the
collector. There is a need for sharing of data concerning the
attribution characteristics of the fakes rather than (as has happened in
the past) keeping such information in an ivory tower.

Ian

"Dave Welsh" wrote in message
news:q98Vf.361$up2.208@fed1read07...
[text snipped]

Dave, this was an excellent article, and many thanks for sharing your
thoughts with us.

An old adage comes to mind: "If you don't know your coins, then know your
dealer." I wonder how many dealers, even though they may be quite astute by
the standards of the 20th century, engage in any kind of
continuing-education activities which will keep their awareness up-to-date.
I'm thinking of the Chinese "Auto" dollar, for example. Twenty years ago,
the majority of world coin dealers and collectors could spot a fake example
of one of these from across the room. Today there are some extremely
deceptive examples about. We see them in online auctions every day. Is it
becoming so much harder for the "average" world coin dealer to keep up with
all the different fakes of all kinds that are out there, to the point where
everyone has to become a specialist?

Mr. Jaggers

In , on 03/25/2006
at 01:55 PM, Ian said:

Are some dangerous? No doubt about it. All dangerous / destructive? In a
simple word, no.....unless the hobbyist is totally brain dead that is.

And there we have Mike! Which is why he's a star (but not "the star") of my
killfile. So much verbage with so little value.

It is good to see people with Dave's obvious knowledge and status in the
coin community adding his weight to what many people have been saying

Dave also posts much verbage. And I read some of it, lost interested midway
(although he did manage to get me worried, some) ... but I saw the reference
to Parthian coins. So I bit, and followed the link.

Doing so, I came across another vague reference to Parthian coins (and no
additional info, except for a link). So, I followed the link, only to find
that you have to have a yahoo login. Well, I do! So I logged in. Only to
find that the referenced Yahoo group is private/members-only. That, and the
page had no hints at all as to how one might "join".

With so much information online, and a great much of it worthless, it's
frustrating when something with potential peaks my interest, but all paths
lead to dead ends. I have a genuine interest, and personal dollars at
stake. I just don't have time to chase thousands of words only to find a
dead end.

Nick
- Collector of only "genuine", non-dangerous fakes

"Nick Knight" wrote in message
...
In , on 03/25/2006
....
Dave also posts much verbage.

A lot of readers want that background material. You can always skip what's
not interesting for you.

And I read some of it, lost interested midway
(although he did manage to get me worried, some) ... but I saw the
reference
to Parthian coins. So I bit, and followed the link....

For anyone who could not access the images here is another link:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakeobv.JPG

http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakerev.JPG

There was a long subsequent discussion in Iranica-L about these forgeries,
the current state of the art in forgeries, and their detection. It has been
compiled by Tom Mallon-McCorgray and may be viewed at
http://www.grifterrec.com/y/parthia-...nts/a-w_1.html

Dave Welsh
Classical Coins
www.classicalcoins.com

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"Dave Welsh" wrote in message
news:q98Vf.361$up2.208@fed1read07...
[text snipped]

Dave, this was an excellent article, and many thanks for sharing your
thoughts with us.
....

Today there are some extremely
deceptive examples about. We see them in online auctions every day. Is
it
becoming so much harder for the "average" world coin dealer to keep up
with
all the different fakes of all kinds that are out there, to the point
where
everyone has to become a specialist?


Well, I am a specialist. So I can't really speak for anyone who thinks of
himself as a generalist. My area of expertise is ancient coins, though I
suppose there is still some residual knowledge of US series forgeries from
my days at Willoughby's years ago.

In the field of ancient coins it is simply impossible for the "average
dealer" to keep abreast of the latest developments in forgeries and how to
detect them. The "average dealer" in ancient coins is a small operation.
There are not very many big ancient coin dealers who can maintain a staff of
experts.

The only reliable approach I know for dealing with deceptive forgeries is to
find die matches and then closely examine the suspect coin vs.the genuine
coin. In the case of a really dangerous forgery, you must have a high
quality cast of the genuine coin, or the original to compare it with.

In a show or auction environment, it's impossible of course to carry out
such research. Despite that, I buy very few forgeries. I have a "sixth
sense" about forgeries and when there's a question in my mind I pass on the
coin. No doubt I pass on many genuine coins, but I long ago learned that I
can't buy every coin that's for sale.


Dave Welsh
Classical Coins
www.classicalcoins.com

Dave Thank you for the article, it would be interesting to hear about
your thoughts on The Bavarian school of forgerys and the Toronto group.
I had a strong interest in Consintine coins wanted to collect them but
got scared off when I started to do some reading and saw how now even
very common low cost coins are being forged.

Dave,

Are you arguing that these forgeries are all die struck from
newly-engraved dies? Or that some are cast from genuine coins? Or
some of each? One in particular is very crude and looks like a tourist
copy, but others seem to be casts and some appear genuine from the
posted scans. Of course I cannot see the edges and don't know what the
weights are.

Bob Leonard

In lFqVf.417$up2.415@fed1read07, on 03/25/2006
at 10:38 PM, "Dave Welsh" said:

A lot of readers want that background material. You can always skip what's
not interesting for you.

As I previously stated, I did just that, thanks.

For anyone who could not access the images here is another link:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakeobv.JPG
http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakerev.JPG

There was a long subsequent discussion in Iranica-L about these forgeries,
the current state of the art in forgeries, and their detection. It has
been compiled by Tom Mallon-McCorgray and may be viewed at

http://www.grifterrec.com/y/parthia-...nts/a-w_1.html

Excellent! Links that work are are very direct.

Unfortunately, I'm NOT an expert on Parthian coins, only an enthusiast.
And, every single one of my coins looks just like one pictured! Yikes. I
suppose I can feel better knowing that I've chased, mostly, the
"inexpensive" pieces. Still, it is worrisome.

Thanks for the finer detail. My interested is again peaked.

Nick