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Current opinion on grading/slabbing?



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 6th 13, 04:17 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
oly
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Posts: 3,111
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Apr 6, 8:55*am, "bremick" wrote:
"Ruben" *wrote in messagenews On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:31:46 -0600, Trevor wrote:
Thanks, this was very helpful!


No it wasn't helpful. *It was biased and not reflective of the market.
MS70 slabbed coins have been on the market and holding their value for
quite some time now. *MS70 slabbed coins have done well on the open
market.

Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them, but denying the reality
of the market value is delusional.

Rubenhttp://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
--------

Some slabbed modern MS70 coins may hold their value today, but not likely as
a long term "rarities". *Too many of them suddenly being offered to a
gullible collector base. *Perhaps you don't recall just a short time ago
when any coin graded MS70 was unthinkable. *Don't you ever wonder how
dealers and shopping channels can always obtain so many of them (to order?)
for their stock, most of which are usually Mint-issued bullion "coins"? *Oly
is right when he says that many people who buy these things couldn't tell a
69 from a 70, or even a 68, if the slab label were covered.

The irony is that after you've spent big bucks for that slabbed MS70 Eagle,
a year later it's value may have plummeted because it doesn't have a CAC
sticker or an MS70++ label on it. *Your MS70 will have turned into an MS69,
value-wise.


Today, I have some nice traditional older coins that I am proud of, I
have some average stuff that isn't all that exciting but which give me
some personal satisfaction from ownership, and I have boxes and boxes
of modern dross that can't be sold at any worthwhile price. Some of
the dross I paid for and some came from liquidating estates and
collections. I speak from experience and and I really really need to
be more discriminating myself. But it's difficult when you are a coin
junkie.

oly

"Steady man, and always think [before buying]; an accumulation is
never a collection."
- Lord Joseph Duveen (emminent English art dealer, d. 1939)

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  #12  
Old April 6th 13, 04:48 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Lord Hawhaw
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Posts: 20
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

IMO paying a premium for modern MS70 stuff is a waste of money.
I'd bet a blow job from Frank that 999 out of 1000 collectors couldn’t tell the
difference between MS69 and MS70.
PCGS and NGC aren't even sure.

  #13  
Old April 6th 13, 09:51 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ruben[_2_]
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Posts: 27
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 01:12:38 -0700, oly wrote:


There are large swathes of the present numismatic market that are not
realistic and as impermanent as an ice cube in hell. There has been a
lot of hucksterism in new coins and/or modern medals in every decade
(all or part of six different decades now) that I have collected coins.


Call it what you want but the markey has upheld these prices largely for
more than 20 years now, so your opinion holds only to you and not the
market.

The statement that these MS 70 graded coins will return to bullion prices
is the wishful thinking. I suggest you use that 6 decades of experience
to reevaluate your conclusion based on market evidence.

And it is not just MS 70 coinages, but the full range for conditional
rarities such as a 1944 FB MS66

I personally wouldn't buy these coins but the crack out game has been old
news for a long time now and there is no evidence at all that it will
lose its market support, not now and not in the forseeable future.

There is no point being grumpy about it.

Ruben
http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
  #14  
Old April 6th 13, 09:59 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
oly
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Posts: 3,111
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Apr 6, 3:51*pm, Ruben wrote:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 01:12:38 -0700, oly wrote:
There are large swathes of the present numismatic market that are not
realistic and as impermanent as an ice cube in hell. *There has been a
lot of hucksterism in new coins and/or modern medals in every decade
(all or part of six different decades now) that I have collected coins.


Call it what you want but the markey has upheld these prices largely for
more than 20 years now, so your opinion holds only to you and not the
market.

The statement that these MS 70 graded coins will return to bullion prices
is the wishful thinking. *I suggest you use that 6 decades of experience
to reevaluate your conclusion based on market evidence.

And it is not just MS 70 coinages, but the full range for conditional
rarities such as a 1944 FB MS66

I personally wouldn't buy these coins but the crack out game has been old
news for a long time now and there is no evidence at all that it will
lose its market support, not now and not in the forseeable future.

There is no point being grumpy about it.

Rubenhttp://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl


You haven't owned any of these "70" modern coins, so you haven't tried
to sell any of these "70" coins back into that market, and you're
certain that you know that the prices are valid and that there is a
real and strong and steady market.

You ought to get yerself a swami hat and a crystal ball, Karnak.
You'll soon find the future ain't all that foreseeable.

And don't go dragging in coins from seventy or eigthy years ago;
that's not what we were discussing. "Conditional rarities is a whole
'nother way of getting ass-reamed. We were discussing high-grade
modern novelties in slabs. They are silver bullion and that's all
they are likely to ever be. So a smart person gives spot plus a
couple of dollars, which greatly limits one's risk.

oly
  #15  
Old April 6th 13, 10:04 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ruben[_2_]
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Posts: 27
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 09:55:27 -0400, bremick wrote:

Some slabbed modern MS70 coins may hold their value today, but not
likely as a long term "rarities".




Actually, the supposed rarities have been extremely stagnent of the last
few years, even tacking downward, accept for the highest grades and
rarities possible, an area of investment that most regular people could
not afford. Coins are a crappy investment to begin with. US coins look
particularly bleak in the future as the world market shifts.

Someone who wants to invest into some MS70 bingo should enjoy it as much
as a Stella collector. He mght even make a few bucks. I suspect that as
we move from hard cash to plastic that all coins will flatten in value
over time. My grandchildren will likely have very little interest in
coins.

If you want to invest in anything, perhaps high grade MS Ikes and
varieties might be the most fertile ground.

Ruben
http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
  #16  
Old April 6th 13, 10:09 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ruben[_2_]
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Posts: 27
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 19:24:48 -0400, bremick wrote:

When it's time to sell, a slabbed MS68 will likely bring about the same
bullion-related price as an MS69, with an MS70 likely to bring more, but
then you probably would have paid more for it to begin with.


but - and here is the big but. If your selling coins as bullion, who
cares as long as the silver can be proven.

For selling coins though, slabed coins are far far easier to liquidate,
and on ebay it is all but impossible to sell coins not slabbed by PCGS or
NCG, and Heritage will slab them anyway. Furthermore, the returned sale
prices is much higher for coins in the slab.

Ruben
http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
  #17  
Old April 6th 13, 10:12 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Ruben[_2_]
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Posts: 27
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 13:59:59 -0700, oly wrote:

You haven't owned any of these "70" modern coins, so you haven't tried
to sell any of these "70" coins back into that market, and you're
certain that you know that the prices are valid and that there is a real
and strong and steady market.




Did I not already warn you that being grubby is unhealthy for you.

Ruben
http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
  #18  
Old April 6th 13, 10:36 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
oly
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Posts: 3,111
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Apr 6, 4:12*pm, Ruben wrote:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 13:59:59 -0700, oly wrote:
You haven't owned any of these "70" modern coins, so you haven't tried
to sell any of these "70" coins back into that market, and you're
certain that you know that the prices are valid and that there is a real
and strong and steady market.


Did I not already warn you that being grubby is unhealthy for you.

Rubenhttp://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl


I am a very unhealthy person. And congratulations on your statements
that the supposed coin rarities are stagnant and that coins are crappy
investments; we can agree on something.

U.S. coin collecting has practically no new people coming in; soon
enough somebody will schedule a major coin convention at a large
retirement/geriatric center. America's rank-and-file coin dealers are
living on the business of buying scrap gold and bulk silver and
shipping it off to major refiners. After that, I do not know where
the precious metals are going, but for the most part, I sure don't
think they are staying in the U.S.A.

oly
  #19  
Old April 6th 13, 11:43 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Lord Hawhaw
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Posts: 20
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?



"Ruben" wrote in message news
For selling coins though, slabed coins are far far easier to liquidate,

and on ebay it is all but impossible to sell coins not slabbed by PCGS or
NCG, and Heritage will slab them anyway. Furthermore, the returned sale
prices is much higher for coins in the slab.

What has any of this to do with Frank Provasicko?

  #20  
Old April 7th 13, 07:48 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
ruben safir
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Posts: 13
Default Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 14:36:04 -0700, oly wrote:


Did I not already warn you that being grubby is unhealthy for you.

Rubenhttp://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl


I am a very unhealthy person. And congratulations on your statements
that the supposed coin rarities are stagnant and that coins are crappy
investments; we can agree on something.



I only disagreed with you on the point that MS70 coins will have no
market value other than bullien. That is wrong and I'm sure that both of
us have run into people who have made a profit both selling, trading and
even, yes even, holding onto MS 70 coins for an investment.

Now, I had a whole long going argument on a coin forum that in reality
there is no such thing as an MS70 coin. It went on for weeks with
pictures and trolling and so on. I agree that I don't believe that an
MS70 or an MS69 can be always distinguished. And I doubt that when they
created the scale, that there was ever an intention that a real MS70
could exist. It was an ideal.

But the market is, what it is.


Ruben
--
http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/Y...?action=recent
 




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