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Whizzing



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 30th 07, 11:39 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough
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Default Whizzing

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:58:44 -0500, "Mr. Jaggers"
lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

No one has yet brought up the topic of what is commonly called metal
"chasing," a technique by which metal is moved around with various hand
tools to form new letters and numerals. Among coppers, many fake 1799 large
cents, the "1815" large cents, as well as the famous "altered reverse" large
cents, are the result of the use of this technique. I will defer to others
to determine if it has any kinship with whizzing.


This actually is another interesting phenomenon, though different from
whizzing. I actually picked up recently a 1914-D Lincoln cent that had
been tooled from a 1944-D Lincoln cent, to study the process, which I
know has happened with the coin types you mention as well as many
others. I'm most familiar with the process with ancient coins, an area
I've been most involved with lately, with scammers sometimes tooling
coins to improve their apparent grade and other times to change them
from a common to rare variety or type. I hadn't heard before the term
"metal chasing." Interesting. A very quick Google search indicates it
has legitimate metallurgical functions as well.

Anyway, this tooled Lincoln cent is part of a cent set I'm building
that goes back before cents to coins that directly preceded and most
influenced it, to ancient times -- U.S. cent - British penny -
French denier - Roman denarius - Greek drachm. I won't be able to
include every type (no Chain cent for me), but it'll be
representative. Mostly authentic official undamaged coins (sometimes
different varieties of the same type/year) along with official damaged
coins (holed, broken, corroded), official imitatives (sometimes called
restitution issues), barbarous imitatives, contemporary forgeries, old
"name" counterfeits, recent counterfeits, tooled pieces, modern marked
replicas, modern unmarked replicas, and so on. Variety is the spice of
collecting. g

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  #12  
Old September 30th 07, 11:42 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough
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Posts: 944
Default Whizzing

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:09:09 -0700, RF wrote:

Jeez, what a pedantic windbag you are!


Hey, RF. How does it feel to be the most obvious troll in this
newsgroup, at the present anyway? Given some of your company, that's
saying something. But come on, you can do better. You're SO
transparent that nobody takes you seriously. You want to be taken
seriously, don't you? Oh, go ahead. Fling out another transparent
troll post. I could use another chuckle.

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  #13  
Old September 30th 07, 11:47 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
RF
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Default Whizzing

On Sep 30, 6:42 pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:09:09 -0700, RF wrote:
Jeez, what a pedantic windbag you are!


Hey, RF. How does it feel to be the most obvious troll in this
newsgroup, at the present anyway? Given some of your company, that's
saying something. But come on, you can do better. You're SO
transparent that nobody takes you seriously. You want to be taken
seriously, don't you? Oh, go ahead. Fling out another transparent
troll post. I could use another chuckle.


How does it feel to be the biggest windbag on the Usenet???


  #14  
Old September 30th 07, 11:49 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Jorg Lueke
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Posts: 209
Default Whizzing

On Sep 30, 6:50 pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

This is from the book Official A.N.A. Grading Standards for United
States Coins: "A whizzed coin has been mechanically wire-brushed...
The most important diagnostic is the build-up of metal on the coin's
raised devices. As the wire brush moves across the surface of the
coin, a microscopic layer of metal is liquefied BY THE HEAT produced
by friction." (Emphasis mine.) The ANA continues: "The metal is pushed
along in front of the brush until a raised device is encountered, upon
which a ridge of metal is deposited." Gee, sounds familiar, doesn't
it?

Which version of the book is that? In the 5th, and the newly printed
6th I see the following, "
Types of processing include polishing and ABRASION, which REMOVES
metal from a coin's surface, etching and acid treatment, and
'whizzing'. The latter usually refers to ABRADING the surca eof a
coin with a stiff wire brush, often in a circular motion, to produce a
series of minute tiny parallel scratches which to the unaided eye or
under low magnification appear to be like mint luster" Emphasis
mine.

Bottom line: Metal is moved. Not removed. With whizzing. Just as with
striking.

Based on the current ANA information I would read both as happening.
Obviously the abrasion referred to above which leaves the scratches
removes metal. Some of that builds up around letters and devices,
which for my money can be defined as moved metal.

I am curious with what revision the updated understanding was added.



  #15  
Old October 1st 07, 12:45 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Anka
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Posts: 297
Default Whizzing

On Sep 30, 12:50?pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

In the discussion thus far, Anka sought to show that I post "so many"
ignorant comments, only she had to travel back 3-1/2 years to find an
"ignorant" comment of mine,


For the record, *this* is what you asked for:

"One 'ignorant' comment. Just one. I'm not asking for multiple ones,
as
you're charging. Just one."

No other parameters.

a comment that was actually correct, not "ignorant."


Only in your own little universe.


~Anka


  #16  
Old October 1st 07, 02:53 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough
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Posts: 944
Default Whizzing

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:47:10 -0700, RF wrote:

How does it feel to be the biggest windbag on the Usenet???


"On the Usenet"? Interesting phrase. You make it up all by yourself?
You earlier said I was trying to destroy numismatics. Anything else?
This is highly entertaining.

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  #17  
Old October 1st 07, 03:18 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough
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Posts: 944
Default Whizzing

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:45:57 -0700, Anka wrote:

Only in your own little universe.


See, this kind of comment leaves me scratching my head. You're an
intelligent person. Yet you're acting the opposite. You accused me of
offering up numerous ignorant comments, yet you quoted one in which I
agreed with the authors of the two most widely used and respected
grading guides in the coin industry. Were their comments ignorant too?
When you say my comment was correct only in my own little universe,
you're disagreeing with not only me but also the ANA and PCGS and
agreeing with Jeff the metal worker from Australia. I can see that.

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  #18  
Old October 1st 07, 03:20 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
RF
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Posts: 1,802
Default Whizzing

On Sep 30, 9:53 pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

You earlier said I was trying to destroy numismatics. Anything else?


Please point out where this was said or admit you're nothing but a
lying windbag.


  #19  
Old October 1st 07, 03:20 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Reid Goldsborough
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Posts: 944
Default Whizzing

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:49:06 -0700, Jorg Lueke
wrote:

I am curious with what revision the updated understanding was added.


Your understanding of the "updated understanding" in incorrect. It
wasn't updated. The same language appeared in both the 5th and 6th
editions. Only you left out important information, specifically this
sentence immediately following what you quoted: "Under high
magnification (in this case a very strong magnifying glass should be
used) the surface of a whizzed coin will show countless tiny scratches
as well as metal build-up on the edges of letters and numerals." In
other words, metal moves. It's not nice to leave out information like
this. Is some metal abraded? No doubt, as I said earlier, some tiny
amount of metallic dust, but so little that it's not measurable with
the scales typically used to weigh coins, not to the second or third
decimal point on a gram scale. That's really tiny.

I also left out information, in what I quoted earlier from the ANA
grading guide. I forgot to mention that the part I quoted was from a
chapter bylined by Michael Fahey. This doesn't affect the truth of
what I quoted like what Jorg just did, but I should have noted it.
Michael Fahey is currently a grader for ICG and before that was a
grader for ANACS, for 25 years. He's also a columnist for Coin World.

Note that anyone can come to the same conclusions as Michael Fahey,
the other authors of the ANA grading guide, and the authors of the
PCGS guide by simply looking under a stereo microscope at a whizzed
coin. Try it, you'll like it. Under such magnification the surfaces of
untooled coins also reveal wonders unseen and unseeable by the naked
eye. Different world, with cliffs and valleys like some alien
landscape.

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  #20  
Old October 1st 07, 03:27 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
RF
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Posts: 1,802
Default Whizzing

On Sep 30, 10:18 pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:45:57 -0700, Anka wrote:
Only in your own little universe.


See, this kind of comment leaves me scratching my head.


A 2 piece jigsaw puzzle leaves you scratching your head, dipstick.
Plus the head lice of course.

 




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