who do you folks call legends or icons?

my last bit of the year. since i got all bent out of shape for someone
calling denny mclain a "legend"..i'd like to see what other "legends"
or icons that you folks thing are out there? mostly, i'm looking for
the living though..
paul mccartney is obviously, so is muhammad ali, michael jordan, magic
johnson. but who else? is someone going to dare say that PAMELA
ANDERSON is a legend. i know madonna is an icon, U2 are icons. pete
townsend is a legend, but is he an icon. and is there something to
differentiate the two? which living people are going to be etched in
stone after they pass like jimi hendrix, john lennon, john kennedy,
james dean, marlon brando. trust me, i'm pretty sure that there's going
to be some differences of opinion. denny mclain is no legend. but i'm
pretty sure you can call nolan ryan or roger clemens, legends. can you
call curt schilling an icon for what he did in the playoffs and world
series with boston, and for what he and randy johnson did for my
diamondbacks in the magical season of 2001 (heck, they won EVERY GAME
in the playoffs and world series that year for them). i'd really like
you know your take...steven king? jk rowling? george bush? bill gates?
give me and the rest of the readers your answer...i'd love to hear some
views...
and happy holidays everyone, no matter what you celebrate.
mike

You have a great point. I would have to add a sub-category under Icons.
That would be Fad. There is a definite difference between Legend and Icon.
IMO, I feel that Icons are people with fleeting fame or the "flavor of the
month". An EXCELLENT example is that William Hung guy from 'American Idol'.
He became famous for not having any talent what so ever. When their 15
minutes are up, then drop into the Fad category and that's where they stay
unless they do something to get the 15 minute clock going again. My opinion
of a Legend is someone that, say 20 years from now, you can mention the
celeb's name to a 15 year old and they can recognize him/her or at least
know that they were famous for something. As for who would fit into that
Legend category, I would have to agree with the ones you listed (except
Anderson, of course). Anderson's fame disappeared, but she had them
reinserted again a couple of years later. :-)

--


Mike
Gummby3

~~ Star Collector ~~
www.star-collector.net
Celebrity addresses the way they should be - free.


"barefoot" wrote in message
oups.com...
my last bit of the year. since i got all bent out of shape for someone
calling denny mclain a "legend"..i'd like to see what other "legends"
or icons that you folks thing are out there? mostly, i'm looking for
the living though..
paul mccartney is obviously, so is muhammad ali, michael jordan, magic
johnson. but who else? is someone going to dare say that PAMELA
ANDERSON is a legend. i know madonna is an icon, U2 are icons. pete
townsend is a legend, but is he an icon. and is there something to
differentiate the two? which living people are going to be etched in
stone after they pass like jimi hendrix, john lennon, john kennedy,
james dean, marlon brando. trust me, i'm pretty sure that there's going
to be some differences of opinion. denny mclain is no legend. but i'm
pretty sure you can call nolan ryan or roger clemens, legends. can you
call curt schilling an icon for what he did in the playoffs and world
series with boston, and for what he and randy johnson did for my
diamondbacks in the magical season of 2001 (heck, they won EVERY GAME
in the playoffs and world series that year for them). i'd really like
you know your take...steven king? jk rowling? george bush? bill gates?
give me and the rest of the readers your answer...i'd love to hear some
views...
and happy holidays everyone, no matter what you celebrate.
mike




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Here's how it should break down:

Notorious: These are people who will only be famous for being evil
and mostly used as a tool to learn from. They appear only again and
again when there is nothing in the fad or living icon pages happening.
Such people include OJ Simpson, Sadaam Hussein, Charles Manson etc.

Hall of Shame: (where people say Oh no, please... not again! Banish
them forever) which are people who had more than 15 mintiest of fame
but shouldn't have (these include people like William Hung who kept
going and going for no apparent reason or the guy who stole the
baseball from the kid) These people will be forgotten entirely and
will eventually be a footnote on only the highest channel cable shows
etc.

Fad: (these people will be featured on either one hit wonders or
"where are they now"). = people who had 15 minutes of fame (this
includes people on reality shows or people in the news who do
ridiculous things to get noticed like the guys who run out on the
field during football games etc and people) These people will never be
icons of yesterday or living legends or legends.

Icons of Today and yesterday: These are people who were very famous,
currently have a following but the following is limited and segmented.
These people appear on TV a lot, Talk shows, gossip columns and such,
but never achieve legend status because they just don't have the whole
packed. These include people who are very popular for a few years like
Puff Daddy, Christina Agulera or Brittany Spears... or people of the
past like Donovan, Annette Funicello, Anita Bryant, Many of these
either got lost in stereotyping (like Annette) but others just ****ed
off the population (like Anita) and thereby stopped their living
legend possibilities

Fence Sitters: These are Icons of Today that may become living
legends. People like this include Phillis Diller, Jay Leno, John
Travolta, Madonna (I hate to admit it but yes), Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise,
Halley Berry. These are people who have positive and potentially
impactful enough career achievements and huge followings and who may
be younger with many more years to impress, but they have impressed
greatly already. They CAN become icons.

Living Legends: These are people who are alive and who have IMPACTED
pop culture or the film/music industry etc in some positive way that
LENDS to history (Ie they were the first ones to win something, break
barriers, change a culture and are still alive - they are also very
stable for many, many years)
These are people like Sidney Poitier, Paul McCartney, Elton John and
will die and be embedded into long term history.

Lastly: Golden legends. People who died that were impactful in their
careers. Lucille Ball, Ray Charles, Johnny Carson, Clark Gable,
Humphrey Bogart, Princess Diana. These people have proven they were
first, they were the best, they were loved by millions etc. Beloved
without being notorious.

I think that should be how we rank them? Just my opinion.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:28:46 -0600, "Gummby3"
wrote:

You have a great point. I would have to add a sub-category under Icons.
That would be Fad. There is a definite difference between Legend and Icon.
IMO, I feel that Icons are people with fleeting fame or the "flavor of the
month". An EXCELLENT example is that William Hung guy from 'American Idol'.
He became famous for not having any talent what so ever. When their 15
minutes are up, then drop into the Fad category and that's where they stay
unless they do something to get the 15 minute clock going again. My opinion
of a Legend is someone that, say 20 years from now, you can mention the
celeb's name to a 15 year old and they can recognize him/her or at least
know that they were famous for something. As for who would fit into that
Legend category, I would have to agree with the ones you listed (except
Anderson, of course). Anderson's fame disappeared, but she had them
reinserted again a couple of years later. :-)

Read my other post. I think Anderson falls into the icon status that
can never become a living legend.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:28:46 -0600, "Gummby3"
wrote:

You have a great point. I would have to add a sub-category under Icons.
That would be Fad. There is a definite difference between Legend and Icon.
IMO, I feel that Icons are people with fleeting fame or the "flavor of the
month". An EXCELLENT example is that William Hung guy from 'American Idol'.
He became famous for not having any talent what so ever. When their 15
minutes are up, then drop into the Fad category and that's where they stay
unless they do something to get the 15 minute clock going again. My opinion
of a Legend is someone that, say 20 years from now, you can mention the
celeb's name to a 15 year old and they can recognize him/her or at least
know that they were famous for something. As for who would fit into that
Legend category, I would have to agree with the ones you listed (except
Anderson, of course). Anderson's fame disappeared, but she had them
reinserted again a couple of years later. :-)

Very impressive. I can tell you really put some thought into that and I
agree that this could be the definitive category. How about Marilyn Monroe
and James Dean? Neither had a relatively long theatrical career and were
cut down fairly early, but both are very well known. Would they be
classified as Legendary Icons?

--


Mike
Gummby3

~~ Star Collector ~~
www.star-collector.net
Celebrity addresses the way they should be - free.


"Sue H" wrote in message
...
Here's how it should break down:

Notorious: These are people who will only be famous for being evil
and mostly used as a tool to learn from. They appear only again and
again when there is nothing in the fad or living icon pages happening.
Such people include OJ Simpson, Sadaam Hussein, Charles Manson etc.

Hall of Shame: (where people say Oh no, please... not again! Banish
them forever) which are people who had more than 15 mintiest of fame
but shouldn't have (these include people like William Hung who kept
going and going for no apparent reason or the guy who stole the
baseball from the kid) These people will be forgotten entirely and
will eventually be a footnote on only the highest channel cable shows
etc.

Fad: (these people will be featured on either one hit wonders or
"where are they now"). = people who had 15 minutes of fame (this
includes people on reality shows or people in the news who do
ridiculous things to get noticed like the guys who run out on the
field during football games etc and people) These people will never be
icons of yesterday or living legends or legends.

Icons of Today and yesterday: These are people who were very famous,
currently have a following but the following is limited and segmented.
These people appear on TV a lot, Talk shows, gossip columns and such,
but never achieve legend status because they just don't have the whole
packed. These include people who are very popular for a few years like
Puff Daddy, Christina Agulera or Brittany Spears... or people of the
past like Donovan, Annette Funicello, Anita Bryant, Many of these
either got lost in stereotyping (like Annette) but others just ****ed
off the population (like Anita) and thereby stopped their living
legend possibilities

Fence Sitters: These are Icons of Today that may become living
legends. People like this include Phillis Diller, Jay Leno, John
Travolta, Madonna (I hate to admit it but yes), Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise,
Halley Berry. These are people who have positive and potentially
impactful enough career achievements and huge followings and who may
be younger with many more years to impress, but they have impressed
greatly already. They CAN become icons.

Living Legends: These are people who are alive and who have IMPACTED
pop culture or the film/music industry etc in some positive way that
LENDS to history (Ie they were the first ones to win something, break
barriers, change a culture and are still alive - they are also very
stable for many, many years)
These are people like Sidney Poitier, Paul McCartney, Elton John and
will die and be embedded into long term history.

Lastly: Golden legends. People who died that were impactful in their
careers. Lucille Ball, Ray Charles, Johnny Carson, Clark Gable,
Humphrey Bogart, Princess Diana. These people have proven they were
first, they were the best, they were loved by millions etc. Beloved
without being notorious.

I think that should be how we rank them? Just my opinion.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:28:46 -0600, "Gummby3"
wrote:

You have a great point. I would have to add a sub-category under Icons.
That would be Fad. There is a definite difference between Legend and
Icon.
IMO, I feel that Icons are people with fleeting fame or the "flavor of
the
month". An EXCELLENT example is that William Hung guy from 'American
Idol'.
He became famous for not having any talent what so ever. When their 15
minutes are up, then drop into the Fad category and that's where they
stay
unless they do something to get the 15 minute clock going again. My
opinion
of a Legend is someone that, say 20 years from now, you can mention the
celeb's name to a 15 year old and they can recognize him/her or at least
know that they were famous for something. As for who would fit into that
Legend category, I would have to agree with the ones you listed (except
Anderson, of course). Anderson's fame disappeared, but she had them
reinserted again a couple of years later. :-)



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Yes, Golden Legends. I thought of Dean and should 've included him.
He is a Notorious golden legend really because he died young.
Everyone hails him as the actor of his generation and was known for
breaking a barrier... he created a counterculture and people wanted to
be like him, so his change on culture is seen in the 50's with the
greasers etc. He impacted a nation. As did Monroe. She broke
barriers too in some way. Marrying influential men and being
embroiled into the Presidency and conspiracy theories. She also had
done a ton of films and was even shown as acclaimed in a couple. She
impacted a nation from her died hair (which became much more prevalent
after her) and her dress and people still mimic her today. She
definitely impacted a nation but I guess could also be considered a
notorious golden legend. Both of these two were in the age of Golden
Hollywood as well which I think helps them achieve that status.

On Thus, 22 Dec 2005 10:15:00 -0600, "Gummby3"
wrote:

Very impressive. I can tell you really put some thought into that and I
agree that this could be the definitive category. How about Marilyn Monroe
and James Dean? Neither had a relatively long theatrical career and were
cut down fairly early, but both are very well known. Would they be
classified as Legendary Icons?

You're right on the Icons but I would disagree because those that have
passed I believe become legends: Ie Mother Theresa who is legendary
now for her feats of miracles which have almost myth attached to them
already. Read the dictionary definitions to follow and see that also
the Dali Lama can also be a legend once he passes because without
proof, he is believed to be the reincarnation of the Buddha, which is
really mythological since proof of existence cannot be determined.
Technicality I know, but if we think about these people, we can
categorize them right. Here is the definition according to
dictionary.com of Icon:

One who is the object of great attention and devotion; an idol: “He
is... a pop icon designed and manufactured for the video generation”
(Harry F. Waters).

I would further clarity that saying someone like Pamela Anderson is
indeed an icon whether we like it or not. She just can't become a
legend. The reason is the feats in her life will not merit it. She
could become a legend, but she better work on it quick! It'll be hard
to overcome her past and her stereotype if she ever can. So she is
just an icon of today and most probably yesterday.

George Washington is a Legend by even dictionary standards:

An unverified story handed down from earlier times, especially one
popularly believed to be historical.
A body or collection of such stories.
A romanticized or popularized myth of modern times.
One that inspires legends or achieves legendary fame.

There is one category left out: us. Who are we?


On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 12:07:24 -0800, "graphcollector"
wrote:

No one in the entertainment field is an "icon".
An icon is someone like the Pope, or the Dalai Lama, or the Virgin Mary,
Mohammed, etc.
The people you were referring to are either living legends or dead legends.
Personality cults don't even count for being icons. There has to be some
kind of religious connotation or association.
Paul McCartney = music legend
Muhammed Ali, Michael Jordan, Magic.....sports legends
Pamela Anderson = nothing, a joke
George Washington = Father of our Country, greatest leader who ever
lived?......still not an icon

The masses? The building blocks? The foundation? Without "us", there is
no legends, icons, fads, etc. It takes the masses for the designated
categories to become classified.

--


Mike
Gummby3

~~ Star Collector ~~
www.star-collector.net
Celebrity addresses the way they should be - free.


"Sue H" wrote in message
...

There is one category left out: us. Who are we?



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Ok, that's a good one. Masses is a good term I think as I guess we
are the majority.

Anyone here ever achieve fame or any sort? What does it take to
achieve a level of fame. So like my husband was interviewed on the
news for going to the Gulf before... but that's not fame. I got my
photo in the newspaper once for school but that's not fame. When do
we cross over into some level of fame? Like do the reality
contestants who appear on TV achieve any level of fame if they are cut
out the first round? But I remember a couple losing contestants like
George Huff and John Peters form American Idol so is that good enough
to be at least a fad? Hmm.... there should be a definitive point.
like Justin Guarini (spelling?)... is that a fad? I think so because
he made a movie. So maybe second place is the fad...

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 11:31:48 -0600, "Gummby3"
wrote:

The masses? The building blocks? The foundation? Without "us", there is
no legends, icons, fads, etc. It takes the masses for the designated
categories to become classified.

this is what i was looking for...great way to work on all this...
here's the second part of my questions based on the answers given
above...
1)would marilyn monroe or james dean be considers an "icon" or legends
if they were not cut down early in life? does that mean if madonna were
to be killed or die tragically, would she achieve the same fame that
monroe has, or does she have it RIGHT NOW. i do believe she's achieved
more than monroe now and can be an icon as we speak and ponder. but if
she had passed during her prime, would she be elevated to that higher
status. i mean, artists put monroe, dean, pacino, madonna on canvas
everyday. so none ofthese folks can ever be a "fad" any longer.
i love the "rules" that have been placed....follow them if you'd like.
or don't. i'm really wanting to see who's a legend or an icon.
2)i just used pamela anderson as an example. she's a sex symbol which,
to me, is all marilyn monroe was...so what, she hooked up with a
president who was a playboy. she married joe dimaggio. these were just
happenstances of her fame. they weren't pre meditated, she wasn't
looking for money, fame or glory in those relationships...in fact, she
tried to hide the relationship with kennedy as much as kennedy did. she
just knew people who knew people....this is looked on as what makes her
an icon? then pam anderson can be cocsidered in the exact same breath
without any oohs and ahhs...
she's just still alive.
3) are we looking at a generation that won't have as many people that
achieve icon status for the simple fact that there are WAY more people
in the melting pot now...there were far fewer celebrities in brando,
dean and monroe's era. today, with five minutes of fame...what really
changed.
lastly...EVERY girl i ever dated wanted to be madonna in high school.
and they all wanted to date john cusack (say anything) and they all
listened to the cure...and i mean every one...even up to my wife now
(who's only 19) so those images have a very lasting effect...does this
matter in the scheme of legend or icon?
mike