Current opinion on grading/slabbing?

I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering
about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing
2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed
price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version?

On Apr 3, 3:02*pm, Trevor wrote:
I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering
about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing
2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed
price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version?

One should be wary of the more expensive version.

Look at the slab - I presume that the 2013 Libertad coin is graded a
"70", or essentially perfect, by a major third-party grdaing company,
in order to justify the price which you indicate is three times an
unslabbed coin.

Probably if you can find a similar slabbed 2013 Libertad graded "69",
the price will be less and the ratio between the "69" graded coin and
the unslabbed (or "raw") coin will likely be much less. IMHO, you
won't be able to tell the difference between the two coins if they are
both in front of you and if the labels on the slabs are covered up.
If you must have a slabbed coin, the "69" graded coin is often a
relatively bargain.

Some speculators send many many many new coins to the major grading
companies hoping for the "70" grade. This is game that is played all
the time. The coins that "only" get graded "69" still have to be
resold somehow and this is why there is a much smaller premium on the
"69" graded coin.

However, someday in the future, when you go to sell your Libertad,
chances are the whole ball of wax will be based on whatever the silver
price is at that time.

Slabs have a role when the item is pricey (like a gold coin) and when
AUTHENTICITY is an important issue. In every instance, YOU yourself
should judge the grade and eye appeal of the coin and pay no attention
to what the label states the grade is.

Presently, the 2013 dated Libertad coin is simply a novelty and you
are paying a premium for the enjoyment of possessing the coin when it
is brand spanking new. Such demand is fleeting and you are unlikely
to get your premium back, so don't go too far above silver spot plus a
couple of two or three or five dollars.

oly

On Apr 3, 4:31*pm, oly wrote:
On Apr 3, 3:02*pm, Trevor wrote:

I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering
about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing
2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed
price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version?

One should be wary of the more expensive version.

Look at the slab - I presume that the 2013 Libertad coin is graded a
"70", or essentially perfect, by a major third-party grdaing company,
in order to justify the price which you indicate is three times an
unslabbed coin.

Probably if you can find a similar slabbed 2013 Libertad graded "69",
the price will be less and the ratio between the "69" graded coin and
the unslabbed (or "raw") coin will likely be much less. *IMHO, you
won't be able to tell the difference between the two coins if they are
both in front of you and if the labels on the slabs are covered up.
If you must have a slabbed coin, the "69" graded coin is often a
relatively bargain.

Some speculators send many many many new coins to the major grading
companies hoping for the "70" grade. *This is game that is played all
the time. *The coins that "only" get graded "69" still have to be
resold somehow and this is why there is a much smaller premium on the
"69" graded coin.

However, someday in the future, when you go to sell your Libertad,
chances are the whole ball of wax will be based on whatever the silver
price is at that time.

Slabs have a role when the item is pricey (like a gold coin) and when
AUTHENTICITY is an important issue. *In every instance, YOU yourself
should judge the grade and eye appeal of the coin and pay no attention
to what the label states the grade is.

Presently, the 2013 dated Libertad coin is simply a novelty and you
are paying a premium for the enjoyment of possessing the coin when it
is brand spanking new. *Such demand is fleeting and you are unlikely
to get your premium back, so don't go too far above silver spot plus a
couple of two or three or five dollars.

oly

Need to clarify one of my points better:

However, someday in the future, when you go to sell your Libertad
(slabbed or unslabbed), chances are the whole ball of wax will be
based on whatever the silver price is at that time. Nothing more than
bullion - and hopefully nothing less.

oly

Thanks, this was very helpful!

"Trevor" wrote in message ...

I'm getting back into actively collecting coins again, and I'm wondering
about the advantages of buying slabbed coins. For example, I'm seeing
2013 silver Libertads being sold slabbed for about 3 times the unslabbed
price. Is there any reason I would want to buy the more expensive version?


You're talking about bullion coins. As an investment I would be reluctant
to pay much more than spot for any Unc bullion coin, regardless of whether
it's slabbed or not. When it's time to sell, a slabbed MS68 will likely
bring about the same bullion-related price as an MS69, with an MS70 likely
to bring more, but then you probably would have paid more for it to begin
with. Only you can give a reason as to why you might want to pay three
times the value for a slabbed version.

Buying slabbed coins makes more sense with traditional older collector
coins, especially key dates, mostly for authentication but also for ease of
resale. Many people advocate buying the coin, not the slab. But there will
always be some who will buy the slab purely based on what the grade label
says, regardless of whether they agree with the grade or even the coin's
appearance.

On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:31:46 -0600, Trevor wrote:

Thanks, this was very helpful!

No it wasn't helpful. It was biased and not reflective of the market.
MS70 slabbed coins have been on the market and holding their value for
quite some time now. MS70 slabbed coins have done well on the open
market.

Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them, but denying the reality
of the market value is delusional.

Ruben
http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl

On Apr 6, 12:00*am, Ruben wrote:
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:31:46 -0600, Trevor wrote:
Thanks, this was very helpful!

No it wasn't helpful. *It was biased and not reflective of the market.
MS70 slabbed coins have been on the market and holding their value for
quite some time now. *MS70 slabbed coins have done well on the open
market.

Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them, but denying the reality
of the market value is delusional.

Rubenhttp://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl

MS70 modern silver coins are a losers' game. If you take a "70" and a
"69" on a modern crappy-dappy and cover the labels, you can't tell the
difference. A coin that gets a "70" after the graders have had their
lunch (or their first drink of the day) might well have been a "69"
before lunch or before that first drink.

Don't be a sucker. Don't **** away good money. If you must have a
slabbed modern silver coin, the "69" is the route to go. But the raw
modern silver coin might be the much much better deal yet.

Many "values" in numismatics are impermanent as hell. Lots of modern
stuff gets puffed up when brand new, and a couple of years later the
market is very thin with very poor liquidity.

If you wouldn't put your money where your mouth is (and I do own some
"69" stuff but not "70" stuff), what good is your opinion???

Sauve qui peut and let the devil take the suckers and their money.

oly

On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 23:10:25 -0700, oly wrote:

MS70 modern silver coins are a losers' game. If you take a "70" and a
"69" on a modern crappy-dappy and cover the labels, you can't tell the
difference. A coin that gets a "70" after the graders have had their
lunch (or their first drink of the day) might well have been a "69"
before lunch or before that first drink.

that is your opinion, but not refelcted in the market.


Your entitled to your opinion. You opinion doesn't change market
reality. I can't tell the difference between many coin grading states,
or die states or varieties. Errors are also hard to see, and so on.
Never the less, the market reflects these things without your permision.


Ruben

http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl

On Apr 6, 2:04*am, Ruben wrote:
On Fri, 05 Apr 2013 23:10:25 -0700, oly wrote:
MS70 modern silver coins are a losers' game. *If you take a "70" and a
"69" on a modern crappy-dappy and cover the labels, you can't tell the
difference. *A coin that gets a "70" after the graders have had their
lunch (or their first drink of the day) might well have been a "69"
before lunch or before that first drink.

that is your opinion, but not refelcted in the market.

Your entitled to your opinion. *You opinion doesn't change market
reality. *I can't tell the difference between many coin grading states,
or die states or varieties. *Errors are also hard to see, and so on.
Never the less, the market reflects these things without your permision.

Ruben

http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl



There are large swathes of the present numismatic market that are not
realistic and as impermanent as an ice cube in hell. There has been a
lot of hucksterism in new coins and/or modern medals in every decade
(all or part of six different decades now) that I have collected
coins.

These unrealistic numismatic areas (or areas to avoid) are
characterized by (1) only a handful of market makers; (2) new or
novelty items; (3) dealers who are relative newcomers to the public
numismatic arena; (4) well-maintained dealer hype, such as "clubs" or
"competitions" or "societies" or "registries" as well as outright
prevarication; (5) unusually large spreads between dealers' buy and
sell prices; (6) when you ask for a price on an item that you wish to
sell or sell-back, it will take the dealer a relatively long time to
make a bid (if they will do so at all) - which I will call lack of
continuous price quotations; (7) lack of numerous serious hobby
publications on the item being sold; and finally (8) these dealers and
market makers are thinly capitalized and have limited access to
credit, so they cannot swing big deals.

The better numismatic items/areas (or more desirable areas) are
characterized by (1) hundreds or thousands of dealers making a market;
(2) items that have a market history of at least 10 or 20 years; (3)
dealers who have publicly been in the numismatic coin and bullion coin
business in the same location or at least in the same town or city for
decades; (4) little or no dealer hype is required to explain or sell
the coins being marketed; (5) tighter spreads between dealer buy and
sell prices (I might suggest 25% as a limit, but this can vary up or
down); (6) items with continuous buying price quotations, like common
silver dollars or 90% silver coin or traditional gold coins - these
coin prices can usually be ascertained in the numismtaic press or on
the internet - a good dealer's prices will be close to these same
widely available prices; (7) there are many many serious works of
numismatic scholarship on the coins being bought and sold; and (8)
these dealers/ market makers have strong business capital bases or
personal net worths and they have ready access to outside credit (and
they are so well established that they may never need such credit).

Years ago (in the 1970s at least), the coin firm of Stack's in NYC
used to run a buying advertisement in Coin World every week. It was
almost always the same. Stack's "Want List" included the traditional
historic U.S. coinage in high grade, with some additional emphasis on
U.S. gold coins in all grades and the old standard world gold coins,
like Sovereigns, 20 Francs of the Latin Union coinages, German Marks,
etc. Any serious collector (with a good eye for a nice looking coin)
who restricted his purchases to the same stuff that Stack's wanted to
buy did very well, no doubt, in the all ensuing years. Any collector
who bought bags of modern U.S. coinage and contemporary modern U.S.
Mint Proof and Uncirculated sets did very poorly for the most part,
and those who bought Franklin Mint stuff did only as well as those
medals contained sterling silver and if they closely followed bullion
markets and sold at the right times.

Please note, that even the good traditional numismatic items can wax
and wane in market demand and that the numismatic industry has
experienced widespread price collapses in the past. Demand for
bullion coins also waxes and wanes. The good traditional stuff
suffers but survives these widespread market reverses. On the other
hand, the novelty stuff can readily become unsaleable, even when times
in markets are good, when the promoter dealers move on to the next
promotion.

I hope I avoided too many spelling errors here...

oly

"Ruben" wrote in message news
On Wed, 03 Apr 2013 16:31:46 -0600, Trevor wrote:

Thanks, this was very helpful!

No it wasn't helpful. It was biased and not reflective of the market.
MS70 slabbed coins have been on the market and holding their value for
quite some time now. MS70 slabbed coins have done well on the open
market.

Personally, I wouldn't spend the money on them, but denying the reality
of the market value is delusional.

Ruben
http://www.coinhangout.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
--------

Some slabbed modern MS70 coins may hold their value today, but not likely as
a long term "rarities". Too many of them suddenly being offered to a
gullible collector base. Perhaps you don't recall just a short time ago
when any coin graded MS70 was unthinkable. Don't you ever wonder how
dealers and shopping channels can always obtain so many of them (to order?)
for their stock, most of which are usually Mint-issued bullion "coins"? Oly
is right when he says that many people who buy these things couldn't tell a
69 from a 70, or even a 68, if the slab label were covered.

The irony is that after you've spent big bucks for that slabbed MS70 Eagle,
a year later it's value may have plummeted because it doesn't have a CAC
sticker or an MS70++ label on it. Your MS70 will have turned into an MS69,
value-wise.