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Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 30th 10, 05:27 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Scurvy Dog
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Posts: 77
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins


"Tony Clayton" wrote in message
...
In a recent message "Bruce Remick" wrote:


Must be a regional thing. Around here they appear to be pretty much
available at banks if you ask for them. I've never found one that couldn't
come up with any, not based on asking but by seeing them in change trays at
teller windows. On the other hand, I would guess that they're extremely
rare in circulation almost everywhere, except in a few areas where
collectors like to play games with store clerks.


When I lived in Canada in 1962 half dollars circulated a lot; mainly Canadian
ones
but a good number of US ones also. On visits to the US half dollars were not
uncommon.

Why did they drop out of use? I can understand the reason in Canada when the
dollar coin was introduced.

I will be visiting LA and San Francisco in August, and I look forward to
seeing some of thes coins around ;-)


If memory serves, half dollars fell out of general use after the 1965
elimination of silver from US coins.
Back in the 1950s, half dollars were in common use.
In recent decades I have never rec'd a half in change (unless I spot one in the
till and ask for it.)


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  #22  
Old March 30th 10, 06:00 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Peter Irwin
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Posts: 64
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins

Tony Clayton wrote:
In a recent message "Bruce Remick" wrote:

Why did they drop out of use? I can understand the reason in Canada when the
dollar coin was introduced.


They were unusual in circulation well before the introduction of the
loonie. I used to get them from the bank and spend them, but I'm the
sort of person who does that sort of thing. Most people in the 1980s
would remark that they hadn't seen one in years and were not aware
they were still being made.

One factor was that the mint stopped making 50 cent pieces in
the summer of 1967 (except for sets) because the price of silver
went above face value. The production did not start again until
the new nickel 50 cent coins came out in mid 1968. So for around
one year, 50 cent pieces were unobtainable at face value.

The new smaller nickel 50 cent pieces did circulate a bit in the
late 1960s, but they were never as popular again. Another factor
was the demise of the pay envelope. People used to very often
get their pay in cash, and the people putting the envelopes
together generally used 50 cent pieces were appropriate. Stores
were less likely to order 50 cent pieces for change even when they
were common.

Peter.
--


  #23  
Old March 30th 10, 06:27 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Jud
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Posts: 1,215
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins

On Mar 30, 12:17*pm, Tony Clayton wrote:

Why did they drop out of use? *I can understand the reason in Canada when the
dollar coin was introduced.

Tony, the use of the half dollar pretty much ended shortly after the
assassination of President Kennedy in November 1963, the last year
that Franklin half dollars were issued. The Kennedy halfs were issued
in 1964, and due to his popularity, they were hoarded extensively. It
was also announced that we would see clad coinage in 1965, eliminating
silver from all coins...except the still popular Kennedy half, but
reducing it from 90% silver to 40%. The 40% Kennedys were issued from
1965 until 1969 (1970 in mint and proof sets only).
Between those who hoarded silver coins and those who hoarded the new
Kennedy half dollars, it sounded the death knell for the use of half
dollars in every day commerce. As a kid I regularly saw both Franklin
and Walking Liberty halfs circulating freely, but after 1963 - early
1964 they effectively disappeared from every day use.

Jud -Love your website Tony!-
  #24  
Old March 30th 10, 09:36 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
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Posts: 3,391
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins


"Tony Clayton" wrote in message
...
In a recent message "Bruce Remick" wrote:


Must be a regional thing. Around here they appear to be pretty much
available at banks if you ask for them. I've never found one that
couldn't
come up with any, not based on asking but by seeing them in change trays
at
teller windows. On the other hand, I would guess that they're extremely
rare in circulation almost everywhere, except in a few areas where
collectors like to play games with store clerks.


When I lived in Canada in 1962 half dollars circulated a lot; mainly
Canadian ones
but a good number of US ones also. On visits to the US half dollars were
not uncommon.

Why did they drop out of use? I can understand the reason in Canada when
the
dollar coin was introduced.

I will be visiting LA and San Francisco in August, and I look forward to
seeing some of thes coins around ;-)


Lots of interesting opinions on this. Having lived through the phenomenon,
I think it just sort of happened without our realizing it. I don't believe
it was the lack of silver content that doomed the half, since the silver
content was removed from our other denominations as well. I do believe it
may have begun with merchants who gradually stopped including half dollars
in customers' change-- the means by which most of us accumulate coins from
circulation. If this is the case, I don't know what changed the merchants'
attitude. Conspiracy? Collusion?

I doubt you'll see any half dollars circulating during your visit, but a
stop at a couple of banks should get you a couple rolls if you're interested
in them.



  #25  
Old March 31st 10, 12:05 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Peter[_6_]
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Posts: 401
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins

On Mar 30, 1:27*pm, Jud wrote:
On Mar 30, 12:17*pm, Tony Clayton wrote:

Why did they drop out of use? *I can understand the reason in Canada when the
dollar coin was introduced.


Tony, the use of the half dollar pretty much ended shortly after the
assassination of President Kennedy in November 1963, the last year
that Franklin half dollars were issued. The Kennedy halfs were issued
in 1964, and due to his popularity, they were hoarded extensively. It
was also announced that we would see clad coinage in 1965, eliminating
silver from all coins...except the still popular Kennedy half, but
reducing it from 90% silver to 40%. The 40% Kennedys were issued from
1965 until 1969 (1970 in mint and proof sets only).
Between those who hoarded silver coins and those who hoarded the new
Kennedy half dollars, it sounded the death knell for the use of half
dollars in every day commerce. As a kid I regularly saw both Franklin
and Walking Liberty halfs circulating freely, but after 1963 - early
1964 they effectively disappeared from every day use.

Jud -Love your website Tony!-


This doesn't seem quite right to me.

Appreciable numbers of half dollar coins were issued at least through
2001 with the 2001D coins amounting to about 19 million. The most
plentiful recent year was 1995 with about 26 million 1995P and 26
million 1995D coins. By contrast, in that year there were over a
billion P and over a billion D quarters issued.

As far as the halves disappearing in the mid-60s, it was increasingly
clear to me, at least, that if the US was no longer issuing silver
coins, hoarding the silver ones was an idea with some merit. Being a
student with limited means, I kept few.

My current impression is that clerks are not what they used to be.
Fewer can actually make change without the help of their cash
register. Having fewer choices of coins makes sense to merchants
considering the capabilities of their staff and fewer purchases are
less than a dollar, so the emphasis is on getting the dollars right.
Oddly, I suppose that the current style is often to let the pennies
take care of themselves.
  #26  
Old March 31st 10, 03:59 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Jud
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Posts: 1,215
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins

On Mar 30, 7:05*pm, Peter wrote:
On Mar 30, 1:27*pm, Jud wrote:



On Mar 30, 12:17*pm, Tony Clayton wrote:


Why did they drop out of use? *I can understand the reason in Canada when the
dollar coin was introduced.


Tony, the use of the half dollar pretty much ended shortly after the
assassination of President Kennedy in November 1963, the last year
that Franklin half dollars were issued. The Kennedy halfs were issued
in 1964, and due to his popularity, they were hoarded extensively. It
was also announced that we would see clad coinage in 1965, eliminating
silver from all coins...except the still popular Kennedy half, but
reducing it from 90% silver to 40%. The 40% Kennedys were issued from
1965 until 1969 (1970 in mint and proof sets only).
Between those who hoarded silver coins and those who hoarded the new
Kennedy half dollars, it sounded the death knell for the use of half
dollars in every day commerce. As a kid I regularly saw both Franklin
and Walking Liberty halfs circulating freely, but after 1963 - early
1964 they effectively disappeared from every day use.


Jud -Love your website Tony!-


This doesn't seem quite right to me.

Appreciable numbers of half dollar coins were issued at least through
2001 with the 2001D coins amounting to about 19 million. *The most
plentiful recent year was 1995 with about 26 million 1995P and 26
million 1995D coins. *By contrast, in that year there were over a
billion P and over a billion D quarters issued.

As far as the halves disappearing in the mid-60s, it was increasingly
clear to me, at least, that if the US was no longer issuing silver
coins, hoarding the silver ones was an idea with some merit. *Being a
student with limited means, I kept few.

My current impression is that clerks are not what they used to be.
Fewer can actually make change without the help of their cash
register. *Having fewer choices of coins makes sense to merchants
considering the capabilities of their staff and fewer purchases are
less than a dollar, so the emphasis is on getting the dollars right.
Oddly, I suppose that the current style is often to let the pennies
take care of themselves.


I guess the point I was trying to make is that from 1964-1971 there
were virtually -zero- half dollars in circulation. After that amount
of time people more or less stopped using them. Yes, there were
millions upon millions minted 1971+, but did people use them with the
exception of the 50¢ slot machines? Buy a roll of halves from the
bank, you may find a stray 40% coin, most of the others will either be
in either nice condition, or abused from slot machines. At least, that
has been my experience.
  #27  
Old March 31st 10, 05:03 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Michael Benveniste[_2_]
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Posts: 228
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins

"Jud" wrote:

Between those who hoarded silver coins and those who hoarded
the new Kennedy half dollars, it sounded the death knell for the
use of half dollars in every day commerce. As a kid I regularly saw
both Franklin and Walking Liberty halfs circulating freely, but after
1963 - early 1964 they effectively disappeared from every day use.


Hoarding certainly occurred, both of halves and silver coins, but
there were several other things going on at the same time.

Even before the Kennedy assassination, the U.S. was facing a coin
shortage. Why the shortage occurred is less clear. Congress and
the Treasury blamed coin collectors, and discouraged collectoring by
removing mint marks and suspending sales of proof sets from 1965 to
1967. Breen and others blamed the vending industry. Other suspects
included melters and speculators and the consumer photographic
industry driving up the price of silver. Personally, I think that
the search for "root" cause is futile. The shortage happened, and it
caused a a surge in half dollar circulation out of necessity.

As the shortage abated, not only did hoarding of halves occur,
but vending became more and more important. It didn't matter
if you were talking about old-fashioned pay phones, soda machines,
cigarette machines, or even belt mounted coin changers -- at
least in the U.S. they didn't take halves. Since a half weighed
as much as two quarters, eventually the nuisance of not being able
to use the coin in machines outweighed the advantage of using
fewer coins when making change.

As a result even when the motive for hoarding faded away, the
"half habit" had been broken, and there's been no serious
effort to revive use. While $0.50 slot machines were never
all that popular, the dominance of coinless slots has taken
away that application as well.

OTOH, a little over a week ago I played in a low-stakes HORSE
game at the Mohegan Sun casino. The ante for the stud games
was $0.50 and the casino supplied halves for that purpose.

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain


  #28  
Old March 31st 10, 05:03 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins


"Jud" wrote in message
...
On Mar 30, 7:05 pm, Peter wrote:
On Mar 30, 1:27 pm, Jud wrote:



On Mar 30, 12:17 pm, Tony Clayton wrote:


Why did they drop out of use? I can understand the reason in Canada
when the
dollar coin was introduced.


Tony, the use of the half dollar pretty much ended shortly after the
assassination of President Kennedy in November 1963, the last year
that Franklin half dollars were issued. The Kennedy halfs were issued
in 1964, and due to his popularity, they were hoarded extensively. It
was also announced that we would see clad coinage in 1965, eliminating
silver from all coins...except the still popular Kennedy half, but
reducing it from 90% silver to 40%. The 40% Kennedys were issued from
1965 until 1969 (1970 in mint and proof sets only).
Between those who hoarded silver coins and those who hoarded the new
Kennedy half dollars, it sounded the death knell for the use of half
dollars in every day commerce. As a kid I regularly saw both Franklin
and Walking Liberty halfs circulating freely, but after 1963 - early
1964 they effectively disappeared from every day use.


Jud -Love your website Tony!-


This doesn't seem quite right to me.

Appreciable numbers of half dollar coins were issued at least through
2001 with the 2001D coins amounting to about 19 million. The most
plentiful recent year was 1995 with about 26 million 1995P and 26
million 1995D coins. By contrast, in that year there were over a
billion P and over a billion D quarters issued.

As far as the halves disappearing in the mid-60s, it was increasingly
clear to me, at least, that if the US was no longer issuing silver
coins, hoarding the silver ones was an idea with some merit. Being a
student with limited means, I kept few.

My current impression is that clerks are not what they used to be.
Fewer can actually make change without the help of their cash
register. Having fewer choices of coins makes sense to merchants
considering the capabilities of their staff and fewer purchases are
less than a dollar, so the emphasis is on getting the dollars right.
Oddly, I suppose that the current style is often to let the pennies
take care of themselves.


I guess the point I was trying to make is that from 1964-1971 there
were virtually -zero- half dollars in circulation. After that amount
of time people more or less stopped using them. Yes, there were
millions upon millions minted 1971+, but did people use them with the
exception of the 50¢ slot machines?
========

That seems to prompt the question as to whether there was any one
particular thing that caused the demise of the half dollar in daily usage.
I remember using half dollars in the 1950's and 60's without even thinking,
because they usually would be included among the change I received. The
removal of silver from the half was notable, but silver also was removed
from the quarter and dime, neither of which seemed to be affected. At some
point, it had to be the merchants who gradually stopped including halves in
change. Customers then simply reused whatever coins they received, without
immediately noticing that they weren't getting half dollars much any more.
But what caused merchants to do that almost en masse? The half dollar had
become no less useful than it was in the 1950's. They weighed the same in a
pocket as they did in the 1950's. A curious phenomenon probably with lots
of different ideas.




  #29  
Old March 31st 10, 05:44 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins


"Michael Benveniste" wrote in message
...
"Jud" wrote:

Between those who hoarded silver coins and those who hoarded
the new Kennedy half dollars, it sounded the death knell for the
use of half dollars in every day commerce. As a kid I regularly saw
both Franklin and Walking Liberty halfs circulating freely, but after
1963 - early 1964 they effectively disappeared from every day use.


Hoarding certainly occurred, both of halves and silver coins, but
there were several other things going on at the same time.

Even before the Kennedy assassination, the U.S. was facing a coin
shortage. Why the shortage occurred is less clear. Congress and
the Treasury blamed coin collectors, and discouraged collectoring by
removing mint marks and suspending sales of proof sets from 1965 to
1967. Breen and others blamed the vending industry. Other suspects
included melters and speculators and the consumer photographic
industry driving up the price of silver. Personally, I think that
the search for "root" cause is futile. The shortage happened, and it
caused a a surge in half dollar circulation out of necessity.

As the shortage abated, not only did hoarding of halves occur,
but vending became more and more important. It didn't matter
if you were talking about old-fashioned pay phones, soda machines,
cigarette machines, or even belt mounted coin changers -- at
least in the U.S. they didn't take halves. Since a half weighed
as much as two quarters, eventually the nuisance of not being able
to use the coin in machines outweighed the advantage of using
fewer coins when making change.


I don't recall any hoarding of clad half dollars, if that's the period
you're referring to. There were few common items sold in vending machines
in the early 1970's that cost more than a quarter, so the utility of halves
shouldn't have changed from the 1950's. With vending machines, progress
seemed to jump over the use half dollars in favor of the dollar bill changer
which dispensed smaller denominations for use in machines. Otherwise, the
half dollar should have been just as useful at the cash register. But it
apparently wasn't.


As a result even when the motive for hoarding faded away, the
"half habit" had been broken, and there's been no serious
effort to revive use. While $0.50 slot machines were never
all that popular, the dominance of coinless slots has taken
away that application as well.


I'd be surprised if we could ever become universally comfortable again using
the half dollar. It will be hard enough to encourage the public to accept
the dollar coin as pocket change, as people become more and more accustomed
to using plastic for routine purchases. Even a decision to eliminate the
dollar bill in the next few years may be too late to interest people in
coins they had ignored for 30 years.



  #30  
Old March 31st 10, 07:08 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Michael Benveniste[_2_]
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Posts: 228
Default Halves still (randomly) getting confused as dollar coins

"Bruce Remick" wrote:


I don't recall any hoarding of clad half dollars, if that's the period
you're referring to.


There was hoarding of 40% silver halves, but I don't think there
was hoarding of the CuNi clad halves or of the Ike Dollars
issued the same year. Not even of the Bicentennial issues,
although I imagine quite a few of those got "put away for the
kids" much like state quarters.

The other thing that happened c. 1971 was the commercial success
of dollar bill changer and validators.

There were few common items sold in vending machines in the early 1970's
that cost more than a quarter, so the utility of halves shouldn't have
changed from the 1950's.


What changed is was that vending itself became much more common
in the early 1960's. Around 1960 there was even a dot-com style
stock market boom in vending machine companies, followed by the
inevitable consolidation. Here is a contemporaneous Time magazine
article on the industry:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...938286,00.html

If you had two quarters in your pocket, you could buy a cup
of (awful) coffee from a vending machine. If you had a half
dollar, you couldn't.

--
Mike Benveniste -- (Clarification Required)
Its name is Public opinion. It is held in reverence. It settles
everything. Some think it is the voice of God. -- Mark Twain


 




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