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Are we falling down on the job of collecting?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 6th 09, 09:26 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?


"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:





Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the past
whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could own them
in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that makes
collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if somebody with
nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently preserved
a great deal of material that was considered dross in his day, but
which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil War tokens and
Confederate notes).

oly

Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't enjoy
them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will have it
easy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be slaves
to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get a cushy
federal pension today.

-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one already is)
and will have technological resources that we haven't imagined yet. For me
to sacrifice so they can have nothing but carefree times is not high on my
priority list. I doubt my grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or
anything, unless they feel they will have everything handed to them. I
worked hard for my "cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my
private sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a job.








Ads
  #2  
Old February 6th 09, 09:40 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Mr. Jaggers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,523
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?

Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:





Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could own
them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently preserved
a great deal of material that was considered dross in his day, but
which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil War tokens and
Confederate notes).

oly

Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't enjoy
them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be slaves
to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get a cushy
federal pension today.

-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our resources,
and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share, while away a lazy
Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a public park, ogling the
hotties, talking about the good old days, and kvetching about the younger
generation. Maybe Jud can join us? I hear he can afford a bottle all to
himself if he saves up for a couple of weeks.

James the Impecunious Retiree


  #3  
Old February 6th 09, 11:33 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
oly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,111
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?

On Feb 6, 2:40*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
....
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


....
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could own
them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently preserved
a great deal of material that was considered dross in his day, but
which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil War tokens and
Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't enjoy
them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. *If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be slaves
to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get a cushy
federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. *For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. *I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. *I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our resources,
and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share, while away a lazy
Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a public park, ogling the
hotties, talking about the good old days, and kvetching about the younger
generation. *Maybe Jud can join us? *I hear he can afford a bottle all to
himself if he saves up for a couple of weeks.

James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.

oly
  #4  
Old February 7th 09, 02:09 AM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?


"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 2:40 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could own
them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently preserved
a great deal of material that was considered dross in his day, but
which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil War tokens and
Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't enjoy
them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be slaves
to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get a cushy
federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our resources,
and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share, while away a lazy
Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a public park, ogling the
hotties, talking about the good old days, and kvetching about the younger
generation. Maybe Jud can join us? I hear he can afford a bottle all to
himself if he saves up for a couple of weeks.

James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.

oly
__________________

Proud of it. I did get mine-- the old fashioned way. Proud of that, too.
No more than I needed to get by comfortably, but I worked for it. Made do
with the bare minimum when I had to, and kept my affairs in order so I never
had to be a burden to anyone else. The opportunity is still there for
anyone who cares to go that route.

You're right. I don't share your exaggerated view that the economic sky is
falling, our children will be slaves to the Chinese, and it's up to us to
save them (the children) now or they will be doomed. They will adapt to
whatever they're faced with just like past generations have done and any
adversity will make them stronger in the long run. And I'll gladly take
that offer of a cheap beer with Dr. J under that shade tree in the park,
protected from any pieces of sky. No French necessaire either.

Bruce
'ex-Junior Alliance Francais president, which never quite made it to the
subversive organizations list'



  #5  
Old February 7th 09, 03:16 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
oly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,111
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?

On Feb 6, 7:09*pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...
On Feb 6, 2:40 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:





Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
....
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could own
them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently preserved
a great deal of material that was considered dross in his day, but
which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil War tokens and
Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't enjoy
them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be slaves
to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get a cushy
federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our resources,
and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share, while away a lazy
Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a public park, ogling the
hotties, talking about the good old days, and kvetching about the younger
generation. Maybe Jud can join us? I hear he can afford a bottle all to
himself if he saves up for a couple of weeks.


James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. *Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.

oly
__________________

Proud of it. *I did get mine-- *the old fashioned way. *Proud of that, too.
No more than I needed to get by comfortably, but I worked for it. *Made do
with the bare minimum when I had to, and kept my affairs in order so I never
had to be a burden to anyone else. *The opportunity is still there for
anyone who cares to go that route.

You're right. * I don't share your exaggerated view that the economic sky is
falling, our children will be slaves to the Chinese, and it's up to us to
save them (the children) now or they will be doomed. *They will adapt to
whatever they're faced with just like past generations have done and any
adversity will make them stronger in the long run. *And I'll gladly take
that offer of a cheap beer with Dr. J under that shade tree in the park,
protected from any pieces of sky. * No French necessaire either.

Bruce
'ex-Junior Alliance Francais president, which never quite made it to the
subversive organizations list'- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Might I remind you that all the pensions related to the government
(including Social Security) are actuarially unsound, and that after
you have recieved the pension just a very few years, that you have
recieved MORE than your contributions and any earnings could have
possibly amounted to? At that point, your pension just becomes part
of the debt being left to future taxpayers and that indeed you are
adding to the burden of present and future generations.

Maybe you are just recieving what you were promised, but it was all a
lie from the get-go. Senior Welfare. If you don't see that, you are
intellectually dishonest.

oly

  #6  
Old February 7th 09, 04:39 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Mr. Jaggers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,523
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?

oly wrote:
On Feb 6, 7:09 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...
On Feb 6, 2:40 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:





Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin
issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could
own them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently
preserved a great deal of material that was considered dross in
his day, but which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil
War tokens and Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't
enjoy them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be
slaves to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get
a cushy federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our
resources, and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share,
while away a lazy Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a
public park, ogling the hotties, talking about the good old days,
and kvetching about the younger generation. Maybe Jud can join us?
I hear he can afford a bottle all to himself if he saves up for a
couple of weeks.


James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.

oly
__________________

Proud of it. I did get mine-- the old fashioned way. Proud of that,
too.
No more than I needed to get by comfortably, but I worked for it.
Made do with the bare minimum when I had to, and kept my affairs in
order so I never had to be a burden to anyone else. The opportunity
is still there for anyone who cares to go that route.

You're right. I don't share your exaggerated view that the economic
sky is falling, our children will be slaves to the Chinese, and it's
up to us to save them (the children) now or they will be doomed.
They will adapt to whatever they're faced with just like past
generations have done and any adversity will make them stronger in
the long run. And I'll gladly take that offer of a cheap beer with
Dr. J under that shade tree in the park, protected from any pieces
of sky. No French necessaire either.

Bruce
'ex-Junior Alliance Francais president, which never quite made it to
the subversive organizations list'- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Might I remind you that all the pensions related to the government
(including Social Security) are actuarially unsound, and that after
you have recieved the pension just a very few years, that you have
recieved MORE than your contributions and any earnings could have
possibly amounted to? At that point, your pension just becomes part
of the debt being left to future taxpayers and that indeed you are
adding to the burden of present and future generations.

Maybe you are just recieving what you were promised, but it was all a
lie from the get-go. Senior Welfare. If you don't see that, you are
intellectually dishonest.


Speaking again only for myself, yes, I was aware of all of this, and have,
in fact, now drawn out more than I put in.

But oly, you're blaming Bruce (and, by proxy, me, which is why I am jumping
in here) for being part of the problem. These pension plans were not our
idea. They were forced upon us by law. Your beef, then, is with the
government, not with Bruce or me. Write your Congressmen. Make sure you
pick Congressmen who are not in line for pensions or lifetime health
benefits themselves. Ditto for ex-Flatlander Governors.

The expression "Senior Welfare" is a thinly-veiled phrase of contempt. You
may be hale and hearty now, but what will be your station if that should
abruptly change? Is it time to decide that seniors are expendable? "Let
'em die, and if in agony and poverty, all the better" has already been used,
I believe back in the 30th century B.C.E. At least that's as far back as I
was able to trace it.

Dagnabbit, oly, you'd better be nice to us, because Bruce, Jud, and I were
thinking of inviting you to join us on that park bench. I'd even let you
use my binoculars (they're image-stabilizing, in case you shake a bit) from
time to time and share part of my liquid allotment.

James the Burden



  #7  
Old February 7th 09, 04:57 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
oly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,111
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?

On Feb 7, 9:39*am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
oly wrote:
On Feb 6, 7:09 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


....
On Feb 6, 2:40 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin
issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could
own them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently
preserved a great deal of material that was considered dross in
his day, but which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil
War tokens and Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't
enjoy them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be
slaves to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get
a cushy federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our
resources, and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share,
while away a lazy Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a
public park, ogling the hotties, talking about the good old days,
and kvetching about the younger generation. Maybe Jud can join us?
I hear he can afford a bottle all to himself if he saves up for a
couple of weeks.


James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.


oly
__________________


Proud of it. I did get mine-- the old fashioned way. Proud of that,
too.
No more than I needed to get by comfortably, but I worked for it.
Made do with the bare minimum when I had to, and kept my affairs in
order so I never had to be a burden to anyone else. The opportunity
is still there for anyone who cares to go that route.


You're right. I don't share your exaggerated view that the economic
sky is falling, our children will be slaves to the Chinese, and it's
up to us to save them (the children) now or they will be doomed.
They will adapt to whatever they're faced with just like past
generations have done and any adversity will make them stronger in
the long run. And I'll gladly take that offer of a cheap beer with
Dr. J under that shade tree in the park, protected from any pieces
of sky. No French necessaire either.


Bruce
'ex-Junior Alliance Francais president, which never quite made it to
the subversive organizations list'- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Might I remind you that all the pensions related to the government
(including Social Security) are actuarially unsound, and that after
you have recieved the pension just a very few years, that you have
recieved MORE than your contributions and any earnings could have
possibly amounted to? *At that point, your pension just becomes part
of the debt being left to future taxpayers and that indeed you are
adding to the burden of present and future generations.


Maybe you are just recieving what you were promised, but it was all a
lie from the get-go. *Senior Welfare. *If you don't see that, you are
intellectually dishonest.


Speaking again only for myself, yes, I was aware of all of this, and have,
in fact, now drawn out more than I put in.

But oly, you're blaming Bruce (and, by proxy, me, which is why I am jumping
in here) for being part of the problem. *These pension plans were not our
idea. *They were forced upon us by law. *Your beef, then, is with the
government, not with Bruce or me. *Write your Congressmen. *Make sure you
pick Congressmen who are not in line for pensions or lifetime health
benefits themselves. *Ditto for ex-Flatlander Governors.

The expression "Senior Welfare" is a thinly-veiled phrase of contempt. *You
may be hale and hearty now, but what will be your station if that should
abruptly change? *Is it time to decide that seniors are expendable? *"Let
'em die, and if in agony and poverty, all the better" has already been used,
I believe back in the 30th century B.C.E. *At least that's as far back as I
was able to trace it.

Dagnabbit, oly, you'd better be nice to us, because Bruce, Jud, and I were
thinking of inviting you to join us on that park bench. *I'd even let you
use my binoculars (they're image-stabilizing, in case you shake a bit) from
time to time and share part of my liquid allotment.

James the Burden- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Whatever system is paying you, mon vieux, you may rest assured that
Bruce's federal scheme is much much much better. I deal with
federales most every day, and they often laugh about how good they
have it.

I would perhaps like to be nice, but really I want to make my elders
uncomfortable for their own good. The present and future financial
bailouts are going to create vastly more inflation than has ever been
seen in this country since the 1860s (in the Confederacy) or in the
late 1770s & early 1780s (with the Continental currency, under the
Articles of the Confederation). Do not plan on a comfortable pension
remaining comfortable. Unless you plan on "checking out" quite soon,
you are going to see a great upset in this country - perhaps on the
scale of the old U.S.S.R. in 1989-1991.

I deeply believe that and complacency is quite dangerous right now.

oly
  #8  
Old February 7th 09, 05:42 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?


"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 7:09 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...
On Feb 6, 2:40 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:





Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could own
them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently preserved
a great deal of material that was considered dross in his day, but
which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil War tokens and
Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't enjoy
them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be slaves
to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get a cushy
federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our
resources,
and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share, while away a
lazy
Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a public park, ogling the
hotties, talking about the good old days, and kvetching about the
younger
generation. Maybe Jud can join us? I hear he can afford a bottle all to
himself if he saves up for a couple of weeks.


James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.

oly
__________________

Proud of it. I did get mine-- the old fashioned way. Proud of that, too.
No more than I needed to get by comfortably, but I worked for it. Made do
with the bare minimum when I had to, and kept my affairs in order so I
never
had to be a burden to anyone else. The opportunity is still there for
anyone who cares to go that route.

You're right. I don't share your exaggerated view that the economic sky is
falling, our children will be slaves to the Chinese, and it's up to us to
save them (the children) now or they will be doomed. They will adapt to
whatever they're faced with just like past generations have done and any
adversity will make them stronger in the long run. And I'll gladly take
that offer of a cheap beer with Dr. J under that shade tree in the park,
protected from any pieces of sky. No French necessaire either.

Bruce
'ex-Junior Alliance Francais president, which never quite made it to the
subversive organizations list'- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Might I remind you that all the pensions related to the government

(including Social Security) are actuarially unsound, and that after
you have recieved the pension just a very few years, that you have
recieved MORE than your contributions and any earnings could have
possibly amounted to? At that point, your pension just becomes part
of the debt being left to future taxpayers and that indeed you are
adding to the burden of present and future generations.

_________

Man, what a negative person! I never knew my govt pension was unsound. I
always hoped I would live long enough to take out more than I contributed
over 33 years. I believe I may now have, but I lost interest in keeping
track years ago. What a burden I must be to future generations. And oh,
did I mention before that the govt employment option has always been
available to everyone? Talk about a real burden on society-- what about
the millions of private sector workers who have lost their jobs and are now
living off the taxpayers. Not many federal employees among them.

___________

Maybe you are just recieving what you were promised, but it was all a

lie from the get-go. Senior Welfare. If you don't see that, you are
intellectually dishonest.

_______________

Oly, please consider me intellectually dishonest. Welfare is a handout for
people who don't work. I always looked at my retirement income as the same
type of pension most large companies were offering at the time-- and not
even as lucrative as many company's programs. I watched while many of the
private companies bailed out on their employees, leaving them struggling to
find health care and accumulate a new nest egg on their own.






  #9  
Old February 7th 09, 05:56 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
Bruce Remick
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,391
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?


"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 7, 9:39 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
oly wrote:
On Feb 6, 7:09 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 6, 2:40 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin
issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could
own them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently
preserved a great deal of material that was considered dross in
his day, but which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil
War tokens and Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't
enjoy them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be
slaves to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get
a cushy federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our
resources, and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share,
while away a lazy Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a
public park, ogling the hotties, talking about the good old days,
and kvetching about the younger generation. Maybe Jud can join us?
I hear he can afford a bottle all to himself if he saves up for a
couple of weeks.


James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.


oly
__________________


Proud of it. I did get mine-- the old fashioned way. Proud of that,
too.
No more than I needed to get by comfortably, but I worked for it.
Made do with the bare minimum when I had to, and kept my affairs in
order so I never had to be a burden to anyone else. The opportunity
is still there for anyone who cares to go that route.


You're right. I don't share your exaggerated view that the economic
sky is falling, our children will be slaves to the Chinese, and it's
up to us to save them (the children) now or they will be doomed.
They will adapt to whatever they're faced with just like past
generations have done and any adversity will make them stronger in
the long run. And I'll gladly take that offer of a cheap beer with
Dr. J under that shade tree in the park, protected from any pieces
of sky. No French necessaire either.


Bruce
'ex-Junior Alliance Francais president, which never quite made it to
the subversive organizations list'- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Might I remind you that all the pensions related to the government
(including Social Security) are actuarially unsound, and that after
you have recieved the pension just a very few years, that you have
recieved MORE than your contributions and any earnings could have
possibly amounted to? At that point, your pension just becomes part
of the debt being left to future taxpayers and that indeed you are
adding to the burden of present and future generations.


Maybe you are just recieving what you were promised, but it was all a
lie from the get-go. Senior Welfare. If you don't see that, you are
intellectually dishonest.


Speaking again only for myself, yes, I was aware of all of this, and have,
in fact, now drawn out more than I put in.

But oly, you're blaming Bruce (and, by proxy, me, which is why I am
jumping
in here) for being part of the problem. These pension plans were not our
idea. They were forced upon us by law. Your beef, then, is with the
government, not with Bruce or me. Write your Congressmen. Make sure you
pick Congressmen who are not in line for pensions or lifetime health
benefits themselves. Ditto for ex-Flatlander Governors.

The expression "Senior Welfare" is a thinly-veiled phrase of contempt. You
may be hale and hearty now, but what will be your station if that should
abruptly change? Is it time to decide that seniors are expendable? "Let
'em die, and if in agony and poverty, all the better" has already been
used,
I believe back in the 30th century B.C.E. At least that's as far back as I
was able to trace it.

Dagnabbit, oly, you'd better be nice to us, because Bruce, Jud, and I were
thinking of inviting you to join us on that park bench. I'd even let you
use my binoculars (they're image-stabilizing, in case you shake a bit)
from
time to time and share part of my liquid allotment.

James the Burden- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Whatever system is paying you, mon vieux, you may rest assured that

Bruce's federal scheme is much much much better. I deal with
federales most every day, and they often laugh about how good they
have it.

_______

It wasn't always that way. But it does look pretty good now, especially to
us pre-FERS retirees, when compared to what private industry offers. For
the record, most of us are thankful for our situation, but certainly do not
laugh about it in a smug way.
________

I would perhaps like to be nice, but really I want to make my elders
uncomfortable for their own good.

________

That has become plainly evident. And I don't believe you mean to restrict
it to your elders.
__________


The present and future financial
bailouts are going to create vastly more inflation than has ever been
seen in this country since the 1860s (in the Confederacy) or in the
late 1770s & early 1780s (with the Continental currency, under the
Articles of the Confederation). Do not plan on a comfortable pension
remaining comfortable. Unless you plan on "checking out" quite soon,
you are going to see a great upset in this country - perhaps on the
scale of the old U.S.S.R. in 1989-1991.
____________

Oly, you've just gotta look beyond the textbooks and black helicopter
rhetoric and try a more positive outlook. You remind me of some of the
egghead scientists I used to work with who I'm convinced secretly wished for
a nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union so they could evaluate and validate
their CEP and yield estimates. The sky may be falling already (looking
outside). Nope it's snow.


  #10  
Old February 7th 09, 05:58 PM posted to rec.collecting.coins
oly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,111
Default Are we falling down on the job of collecting?

On Feb 7, 10:42*am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message

...
On Feb 6, 7:09 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:





"oly" wrote in message


....
On Feb 6, 2:40 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Bruce Remick wrote:
"oly" wrote in message
...
On Feb 6, 10:09 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"oly" wrote in message


...
On Feb 5, 6:53 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:


Michael Benveniste wrote:
"stonej" wrote:


http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/...cle&ArticleId=...


Quoting from that article:


When all this is sorted out in the years ahead, will future
collectors say that we were falling down on our basic job as
collectors, which is to collect and to preserve all coin issues?


I'm tentatively willing to accept those job requirements and
duties. Now let's discuss compensation. Who's paying me and
how much?


No one you say? Then I don't have a "basic job of collecting,"
so I can't be falling down on the job.


I think one would be very hard pressed to find collectors of the
past whose
primo motivation was to preserve coins so that you and I could own
them in
2009. In fact, it is because few actually did preserve coins that
makes collecting them such an adventure today. Sounds as if
somebody with nothing
to say had a deadline to meet and column inches to fill.


James- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


It wasn't his prime motivation, but Virgil Brand apparently preserved
a great deal of material that was considered dross in his day, but
which is decent today (especially barrels of Civil War tokens and
Confederate notes).


oly


Or one might say he hoarded them so his contemporaries couldn't enjoy
them.
Like we're supposed to bite the bullet so our grandchildren will
have it easy.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You certainly have a bizarre point of view. If our financial system
holds together (a very very big if) your grandchildren will be slaves
to the bankers and Chinese bondholders, all so you can get a cushy
federal pension today.


-----------------
I'm expecting my grandchildren to be a lot smarter than me (one
already is) and will have technological resources that we haven't
imagined yet. For me to sacrifice so they can have nothing but
carefree times is not high on my priority list. I doubt my
grandchildren will be "slaves" to anyone or anything, unless they
feel they will have everything handed to them. I worked hard for my
"cushy federal pension" and I can laugh now at many of my private
sector friends who would let me know they were making more than me
but now find themselves looking for financial aid or advice, or a
job.


Someday we old flatulences will have to get together, pool our
resources,
and see if we can find a bottle of cheap beer to share, while away a
lazy
Saturday afternoon on a bench in the shade of a public park, ogling the
hotties, talking about the good old days, and kvetching about the
younger
generation. Maybe Jud can join us? I hear he can afford a bottle all to
himself if he saves up for a couple of weeks.


James the Impecunious Retiree- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Bruce has often enough displayed the "I've got mine, Jack" mentality
here on RCC. Mon vieux, I would hardly say the you subscribe to the
"sauve qui peut" and "let the devil take the hindmost" attitude that
Bruce often displays.


oly
__________________


Proud of it. I did get mine-- the old fashioned way. Proud of that, too..
No more than I needed to get by comfortably, but I worked for it. Made do
with the bare minimum when I had to, and kept my affairs in order so I
never
had to be a burden to anyone else. The opportunity is still there for
anyone who cares to go that route.


You're right. I don't share your exaggerated view that the economic sky is
falling, our children will be slaves to the Chinese, and it's up to us to
save them (the children) now or they will be doomed. They will adapt to
whatever they're faced with just like past generations have done and any
adversity will make them stronger in the long run. And I'll gladly take
that offer of a cheap beer with Dr. J under that shade tree in the park,
protected from any pieces of sky. No French necessaire either.


Bruce
'ex-Junior Alliance Francais president, which never quite made it to the
subversive organizations list'- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -
Might I remind you that all the pensions related to the government


(including Social Security) are actuarially unsound, and that after
you have recieved the pension just a very few years, that you have
recieved MORE than your contributions and any earnings could have
possibly amounted to? *At that point, your pension just becomes part
of the debt being left to future taxpayers and that indeed you are adding to the burden of present and future generations.

_________

Man, what a negative person! * I never knew my govt pension was unsound.. *I
always hoped I would live long enough to take out more than I contributed
over 33 years. *I believe I may now have, but I lost interest in keeping
track years ago. *What a burden I must be to future generations. *And oh,
did I mention before that the govt employment option has always been
available to everyone? * Talk about a real burden on society-- what about
the millions of private sector workers who have lost their jobs and are now
living off the taxpayers. * Not many federal employees among them.

___________

Maybe you are just recieving what you were promised, but it was all a


lie from the get-go. *Senior Welfare. *If you don't see that, you are intellectually dishonest.

_______________

Oly, please consider me intellectually dishonest. *Welfare is a handout for
people who don't work. *I always looked at my retirement income as the same
type of pension most large companies were offering at the time-- *and not
even as lucrative as many company's programs. *I watched while many of the
private companies bailed out on their employees, leaving them struggling to
find health care and accumulate a new nest egg on their own.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


If you've gotten back far more than your contributions and any
possible earnings over the years, call your current checks what you
may. And yes, you are being intellectually dishonest - the money has
to come from somebody else (even if it is only from those in your
pension system that died prematurely - before recieving their monies
back in full).

As for negativity (or pessimism), let us remember what Voltaire said:
"Optimism is the mania for declaring that all is well, when all is
going very badly".

Being fortunate, Voltaire managed to live under many of the best years
of the Ancien Regime and still got "checked out" well before the
Revolution.

oly
 




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