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Q: The Condition of this S/S?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 14th 13, 07:36 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

How would you describe the condition of this S/S? How would you grade its
quality?

http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.

TIA.

Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that doesn't
really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows that appear
on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and certainly highlight (by
amplifying) the flaws.

--
Victor Manta

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  #2  
Old September 14th 13, 07:41 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
How would you describe the condition of this S/S? How would you grade its
quality?

http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.

TIA.

Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that doesn't
really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows that appear
on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and certainly highlight
(by amplifying) the flaws.

Please read: Would someone also explain what causes such flaws.

VM

  #3  
Old September 15th 13, 12:30 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Terry Reedy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 188
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

On 9/14/2013 2:36 PM, Victor Manta wrote:
How would you describe the condition of this S/S?


Perhaps lightly wrinkled.

How would you grade its quality?


I understand 'grade' to mostly refer to centering, of single stamps.
That is not so much an issue for SS, but this one is well centered.


http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.


Do you mean real flaws? (if so, which? I am not sure I see any other
than some minor curl and wrinkle) or apparent flaws from the scan
shadow? For the latter, a scanner has to have the light offset from the
sensors, (and the sensors shielded from the light). The scanner used
here seems to have sensors pointing straight up with light hitting as a
noticeable angle. Did you have the lid down on the scanner, to flatten
the sheet?

Terry

TIA.

Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that
doesn't really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows
that appear on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and
certainly highlight (by amplifying) the flaws.


  #4  
Old September 15th 13, 04:56 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

"Terry Reedy" wrote in message
...
On 9/14/2013 2:36 PM, Victor Manta wrote:
How would you describe the condition of this S/S?


Perhaps lightly wrinkled.

How would you grade its quality?


I understand 'grade' to mostly refer to centering, of single stamps. That
is not so much an issue for SS, but this one is well centered.


http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.


Do you mean real flaws? (if so, which? I am not sure I see any other than
some minor curl and wrinkle) or apparent flaws from the scan shadow? For
the latter, a scanner has to have the light offset from the sensors, (and
the sensors shielded from the light). The scanner used here seems to have
sensors pointing straight up with light hitting as a noticeable angle. Did
you have the lid down on the scanner, to flatten the sheet?

Terry


Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that
doesn't really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows
that appear on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and
certainly highlight (by amplifying) the flaws.


Thank you, Terry! Yes, the lid of the scanner was down and therefore the
sheet was flattened.

Here is what I found a few hours ago:

"Instances where the gum can affect the numerical grade or be mentioned in
the opinion mostly emanate from the actual process of the gum drying after
being laid down at the time of application. As the gum dries after this
application, several things may occur, most of which are considered minor
faults:

1.Gum Bends – light bends in the gum but no crease in the paper.
2.Gum Creases – bends in the gum that actually cause a crease or pucker in
the paper in the affected area."

http://www.stampauthentication.com/Grading.html

Considering this quote, and the fact that I see many bends on the face of
the S/S too, I'm inclined to believe that:

- These faults in the gum, eventually leading to creases in the paper
itself, affect the grading

- The important number of these flaws, many of them visible with the naked
eye on both faces, should drive the grading quite low

- Even if the scanning process brings some visual distortions (or
enhancements) of the flaws, its result point us correctly to the flaws
themselves and make them better visible on the scans.

I'll be glad if somebody proves me wrong, because I'm in possession of this
S/S :-)

As I understand it from the quotation above, the flaws come from the
improper drying of the gum during the fabrication, which means that this
sheet looked always like this. I wonder if maybe it has been improperly
stored starting by 1961, like going through humid - dry, cold - hot cycles.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



  #5  
Old September 15th 13, 07:39 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Terry Reedy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 188
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

On 9/14/2013 11:56 PM, Victor Manta wrote:
"Terry Reedy" wrote in message
...
On 9/14/2013 2:36 PM, Victor Manta wrote:
How would you describe the condition of this S/S?


Perhaps lightly wrinkled.

How would you grade its quality?


I understand 'grade' to mostly refer to centering, of single stamps.
That is not so much an issue for SS, but this one is well centered.


http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.


Do you mean real flaws? (if so, which? I am not sure I see any other
than some minor curl and wrinkle) or apparent flaws from the scan
shadow? For the latter, a scanner has to have the light offset from
the sensors, (and the sensors shielded from the light). The scanner
used here seems to have sensors pointing straight up with light
hitting as a noticeable angle. Did you have the lid down on the
scanner, to flatten the sheet?

Terry


Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that
doesn't really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows
that appear on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and
certainly highlight (by amplifying) the flaws.


Thank you, Terry! Yes, the lid of the scanner was down and therefore the
sheet was flattened.

Here is what I found a few hours ago:

"Instances where the gum can affect the numerical grade or be mentioned
in the opinion mostly emanate from the actual process of the gum drying
after being laid down at the time of application. As the gum dries after
this application, several things may occur, most of which are considered
minor faults:

1.Gum Bends – light bends in the gum but no crease in the paper.
2.Gum Creases – bends in the gum that actually cause a crease or pucker
in the paper in the affected area."

http://www.stampauthentication.com/Grading.html

Considering this quote, and the fact that I see many bends on the face
of the S/S too, I'm inclined to believe that:

- These faults in the gum, eventually leading to creases in the paper
itself, affect the grading

- The important number of these flaws, many of them visible with the
naked eye on both faces, should drive the grading quite low

- Even if the scanning process brings some visual distortions (or
enhancements) of the flaws, its result point us correctly to the flaws
themselves and make them better visible on the scans.

I'll be glad if somebody proves me wrong, because I'm in possession of
this S/S :-)

As I understand it from the quotation above, the flaws come from the
improper drying of the gum during the fabrication, which means that this
sheet looked always like this. I wonder if maybe it has been improperly
stored starting by 1961, like going through humid - dry, cold - hot cycles.


It is possible that you would be better off soaking off the gum ;-)


  #6  
Old September 15th 13, 04:51 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Sir F.A. Rien[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:41:59 -0400, "Victor Manta"
sharpened a crayon and wrote:

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
How would you describe the condition of this S/S? How would you grade its
quality?

http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.

TIA.

Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that doesn't
really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows that appear
on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and certainly highlight
(by amplifying) the flaws.

Please read: Would someone also explain what causes such flaws.

VM

angle of the light trqaverse in the scanner vs the slight cupping of
the item and the reflectivity of the paper or gum.

If you use a 'thick' card, such as heavy poster paper, preferably
black, 99% of it should disappear. Also add a book to 'flatten', if
your scanner doesn't have enough pressure by the cover 'pad'.

Better scanning will also result if you 'standardise' by adding a
small strip of 100+ 'white' with a 'black' cut from a good mount or
sales card. {NOT the 103 cards - that's not 'black'!}

Scanners are only as good as the operator.
  #7  
Old September 15th 13, 06:52 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:41:59 -0400, "Victor Manta"
sharpened a crayon and wrote:

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
How would you describe the condition of this S/S? How would you grade
its
quality?

http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.

TIA.

Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that
doesn't
really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows that
appear
on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and certainly highlight
(by amplifying) the flaws.

Please read: Would someone also explain what causes such flaws.

VM

angle of the light trqaverse in the scanner vs the slight cupping of
the item and the reflectivity of the paper or gum.

If you use a 'thick' card, such as heavy poster paper, preferably
black, 99% of it should disappear. Also add a book to 'flatten', if
your scanner doesn't have enough pressure by the cover 'pad'.

Better scanning will also result if you 'standardise' by adding a
small strip of 100+ 'white' with a 'black' cut from a good mount or
sales card. {NOT the 103 cards - that's not 'black'!}

Scanners are only as good as the operator.


Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try to find a big enough black piece of
paper/cardboard, like the one that I used in my previous scanner.

Here are the results with the only black card that I found in my newer
environment:

http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...eet-face-1.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...eet-back-1.pdf

It is probably better, even if somehow darker than on the first scans:

http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...-sheet-fac.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Taking into consideration that scanning techniques weren't necessarily my
priority when asking the question found in the subject line, I don't lose
hope of learning more about the flaws and the grading of this S/S.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  #8  
Old September 15th 13, 08:05 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

"Terry Reedy" wrote in message
...
On 9/14/2013 11:56 PM, Victor Manta wrote:
"Terry Reedy" wrote in message
...
On 9/14/2013 2:36 PM, Victor Manta wrote:
How would you describe the condition of this S/S?

Perhaps lightly wrinkled.

How would you grade its quality?

I understand 'grade' to mostly refer to centering, of single stamps.
That is not so much an issue for SS, but this one is well centered.


http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-face.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...sheet-back.pdf

Would someone also explain what causes such flows.

Do you mean real flaws? (if so, which? I am not sure I see any other
than some minor curl and wrinkle) or apparent flaws from the scan
shadow? For the latter, a scanner has to have the light offset from
the sensors, (and the sensors shielded from the light). The scanner
used here seems to have sensors pointing straight up with light
hitting as a noticeable angle. Did you have the lid down on the
scanner, to flatten the sheet?

Terry


Note about the scans:
The gray band on the top of the image of the back is a shadow that
doesn't really appear on the S/S. The same applies to the gray shadows
that appear on the indentations (saliencies?) on both faces and
certainly highlight (by amplifying) the flaws.


Thank you, Terry! Yes, the lid of the scanner was down and therefore the
sheet was flattened.

Here is what I found a few hours ago:

"Instances where the gum can affect the numerical grade or be mentioned
in the opinion mostly emanate from the actual process of the gum drying
after being laid down at the time of application. As the gum dries after
this application, several things may occur, most of which are considered
minor faults:

1.Gum Bends – light bends in the gum but no crease in the paper.
2.Gum Creases – bends in the gum that actually cause a crease or pucker
in the paper in the affected area."

http://www.stampauthentication.com/Grading.html

Considering this quote, and the fact that I see many bends on the face
of the S/S too, I'm inclined to believe that:

- These faults in the gum, eventually leading to creases in the paper
itself, affect the grading

- The important number of these flaws, many of them visible with the
naked eye on both faces, should drive the grading quite low

- Even if the scanning process brings some visual distortions (or
enhancements) of the flaws, its result point us correctly to the flaws
themselves and make them better visible on the scans.

I'll be glad if somebody proves me wrong, because I'm in possession of
this S/S :-)

As I understand it from the quotation above, the flaws come from the
improper drying of the gum during the fabrication, which means that this
sheet looked always like this. I wonder if maybe it has been improperly
stored starting by 1961, like going through humid - dry, cold - hot
cycles.


It is possible that you would be better off soaking off the gum ;-)


As you know it, this was actually done with some valuable classical stamps,
after they passed the age of 40 - 50 years, btw the same as that of my s/s.
The difference between these cases is that their respective values are in a
ratio of at least two orders of magnitude. Anyway, good luck to those who'll
try soaking off the gum of such large pieces of paper! :-)

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  #9  
Old September 16th 13, 03:46 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Sir F.A. Rien[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

Taking into consideration that scanning techniques weren't necessarily my
priority when asking the question found in the subject line, I don't lose
hope of learning more about the flaws and the grading of this S/S.


I can't help with the issue as I don't collect that area, but as you
-=did=- mention a scanning problem, I thought some information might
be of use. As with you usually, that apparently was a waste!
  #10  
Old September 16th 13, 10:25 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Q: The Condition of this S/S?

"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message
...
Taking into consideration that scanning techniques weren't necessarily my
priority when asking the question found in the subject line, I don't lose
hope of learning more about the flaws and the grading of this S/S.


I can't help with the issue as I don't collect that area, but as you
-=did=- mention a scanning problem, I thought some information might
be of use. As with you usually, that apparently was a waste!


I don't see what should I have done to please you more, Sir F.A. Rien!
Eventually reread what I wrote:

"Thanks for the suggestion.

Here are the results with the only black card that I found in my newer
environment:

http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...eet-face-1.pdf
http://www.artonstamps.org/topicals/...eet-back-1.pdf

It is probably better, even if somehow darker than on the first scans: "

It took some time to do all this but I considered that it was worth a try. I
haven't changed my mind since.

As for my basic question, it was and still is addressed to the ng as a
whole. With so few participants, it doesn't take me wonder that there are
less answers than in the past but it was worth a try too, for at least
refreshing a bit the list of postings.

Finally, I'd like to thank you personally for your contributions, that help
to hold this ng alive.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------


 




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