Oz 2003

Pour participer à nos (d)ébats, "Rodney"
sussurait le Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:42:06 +0800 :

Hi Rodney,

I'll work on it ThibauT,
I have trouble with the 3rd type of perf variation you quote
I have not seen it as yet.

I'll be in touch.
Rgds

many thanks for your effort. If it's only a missing picture, I have
stamps of all the perf I indicate (but not all the stamps for all the
perf ) ) I will make a scan tonight, and we'll see if it's helpful.

many thanks for your email and the kwik-vu 2004, for missing stamps
it's in my wantlist )

--
ThibauT
ben vi c'est remoi )

OK Roger,
I think we have established that there are two broad categories,
gummed and self adhesive.
I have seen two distinct styles of self adhesive, the "crowned corner"
or sinoid as Rein refers to them, and the "mock perf".

Any others that you refer to, have not been viewed by myself, so
what I intend to do over the next few weeks is to, identify
differing perfs and scan them over a backing sheet of graph paper
to indicate the differing styles.

I would have thought though, with the cost of die production,
the perfs would have remained identical (to each print house) whenever the stamp size
remained identical. I could see the style changing as dies were prepared
for larger format stamps. The journey shall be interesting.

Yes, The Bulletin has always shown (albeit rather hidden) the differing styles
when one understood SNP print and Pemara were of different lineage.

I do keep all "Koala and Kangaroo" Counts, is there any broad reference material to these?
or we rely on the Bulletin only?




| Rod, I think that I have all of the recent Australian issues in mint corner
| blocks, coil strips or compete booklets as appropriate (except for a few
| koala reprints which I am continually on the lookout for) and the types of
| die cut used by both SNP and Pemara have varied from issue to issue.
| Usually the number of "perforations" per 2 cm differs between the two
| producers of P&S issues and that is a good guide to identify them with
| reference to a specialised catalogue. I would be extremely surprised if
| Australia Post did not distinguish between "conventional" issues and the P&S
| ones in their literature. In their Bulletin no 277, for example, they
| identify separate gummed and self-adhesive stamps in the Grand Prix set
| coming out next week.
|
| To return to my original point, I think that the only issues with genuine
| perforations (ie with holes between adjacent stamps) are those on
| conventional gum. No doubt in some issues the pattern of the die cut has
| been designed to make used singles appear to have the same tooth pattern as
| the comb perf gummed stamps - but that would seem to be for a cosmetic
| reason only to give comfort to the purchaser. It cannot help in removing
| the stamp from its backing prior to use.
|
| If you have any queries, I (and no doubt other readers) shall be delighted
| to identify your stamps if you place them on the web.
|
| Best regards, Roger
|
|

Very Good Roger on the perf work you are doing.
Identifying perfs can be quite difficult especially with the many US different
perfs. 11 1/2 and 11 3/4 are too fine for my weary eye to read.
The serpentine die cut and die cut are not clear to me either.
The Flag Over Porch stamp site had a good presentation of prefs of those
stamps.

Ralphael, the OLD master

Pour participer à nos (d)ébats, "Rodney"
sussurait le Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:54:00 +0800 :

Hi all,

OK Roger,
I think we have established that there are two broad categories,
gummed and self adhesive.
I have seen two distinct styles of self adhesive, the "crowned corner"
or sinoid as Rein refers to them, and the "mock perf".

if I well understood, "crowned corner" is from SNP ( it's what I
called 'classical adhesive') and the "mock perf" is the gummed-like
from Pemara ('2d perf adhesive' for me)

Any others that you refer to, have not been viewed by myself, so
what I intend to do over the next few weeks is to, identify
differing perfs and scan them over a backing sheet of graph paper
to indicate the differing styles.

The 3rd kind (or more?) of adhesive is the slight variation of the SNP
issue (if I'm right with the SNP issue ;o) )

Here is a scan of a few stamps (picture of 640kb) :
url:http://perso.wanadoo.fr/philatelie-et-cie/imagesdiverses/ozadh.jpg

Outback Services
upper line : 11*11 1/2
bottom line : 11 3/4

Space
left design 11 3/4
right design 11 1/2*11

I tried to align the first teeth in order to see the difference, the
perf written above is from Michel.

In reality I've got :
11 1/4*11/4 and 11 3/4 for Outback
11 3/4 and 11 1/2*11 1/4 for Space

So, I let you distinguish and tell the origin of these stamps, it's
too hard for me! )

I put also the 3 issues of desert star flower in order to be sure of
the right terms.

From left to right :
- crowned corner=sinoid=classical adhesive=SNP issue

- gummed issue

- mock perf=2d perf adhesive=Pemara issue

We have to add to these 3 broad kinds the possible variations of
perf....

Hope it's help, but the more we speak about these adhesives, the less
I see clearly the stamps (
--
ThibauT
Best regards from Vergèze (France), city of Perrier ;o)

"ThibauT" wrote in message
...
Pour participer à nos (d)ébats, "Rodney"
sussurait le Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:54:00 +0800 :

Hi all,

OK Roger,
I think we have established that there are two broad categories,
gummed and self adhesive.
I have seen two distinct styles of self adhesive, the "crowned corner"
or sinoid as Rein refers to them, and the "mock perf".

if I well understood, "crowned corner" is from SNP ( it's what I
called 'classical adhesive') and the "mock perf" is the gummed-like
from Pemara ('2d perf adhesive' for me)

Any others that you refer to, have not been viewed by myself, so
what I intend to do over the next few weeks is to, identify
differing perfs and scan them over a backing sheet of graph paper
to indicate the differing styles.

The 3rd kind (or more?) of adhesive is the slight variation of the SNP
issue (if I'm right with the SNP issue ;o) )

Here is a scan of a few stamps (picture of 640kb) :
url:http://perso.wanadoo.fr/philatelie-et-cie/imagesdiverses/ozadh.jpg

Outback Services
upper line : 11*11 1/2
bottom line : 11 3/4

Space
left design 11 3/4
right design 11 1/2*11

I tried to align the first teeth in order to see the difference, the
perf written above is from Michel.

In reality I've got :
11 1/4*11/4 and 11 3/4 for Outback
11 3/4 and 11 1/2*11 1/4 for Space

So, I let you distinguish and tell the origin of these stamps, it's
too hard for me! )

I put also the 3 issues of desert star flower in order to be sure of
the right terms.

From left to right :
- crowned corner=sinoid=classical adhesive=SNP issue

- gummed issue

- mock perf=2d perf adhesive=Pemara issue

We have to add to these 3 broad kinds the possible variations of
perf....

(snip)

ThibauT, thanks for putting these together. I must get a scanner some time.

The striking thing about comparing the gummed and Pemara versions of the
desert flower stamp is how clean are the "perforations" of the Pemara
version, as viewed under high magnification. They would be of course, since
no tearing is involved in separating a single copy for affixing to an
envelope. The tearing is very apparent in the case of the gummed stamp.

Regards, Roger

G'day Thibau,
Yes, thanks for that, I was aware of all your models
excepting the perf variance on the outback series and Mars probe.
A revelation to me! wow.

So what we have here is simply Gummed and self adhesive
The gummed is the singleton Star Flower (centre)

Of the self adhesive, the singleton Pemara is the rhs Star Flower

The rest are SNP self adhesive with variant perfs.
I'll go back through my Bulletins and see what Aust Post has to offer.
to distinguish the issues.

One thing Roger will find when he gets a scanner, is just how unforgiving
close up scans are, all the dust, lint, bent perfs, stains and all the
little inconsequentials revealed in startling closeups!








--

(Remove gum to reply)


"ThibauT" wrote in message ...
| Pour participer à nos (d)ébats, "Rodney"
| sussurait le Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:54:00 +0800 :
|
| Hi all,
|
| OK Roger,
| I think we have established that there are two broad categories,
| gummed and self adhesive.
| I have seen two distinct styles of self adhesive, the "crowned corner"
| or sinoid as Rein refers to them, and the "mock perf".
|
| if I well understood, "crowned corner" is from SNP ( it's what I
| called 'classical adhesive') and the "mock perf" is the gummed-like
| from Pemara ('2d perf adhesive' for me)
|
| Any others that you refer to, have not been viewed by myself, so
| what I intend to do over the next few weeks is to, identify
| differing perfs and scan them over a backing sheet of graph paper
| to indicate the differing styles.
|
| The 3rd kind (or more?) of adhesive is the slight variation of the SNP
| issue (if I'm right with the SNP issue ;o) )
|
| Here is a scan of a few stamps (picture of 640kb) :
| url:http://perso.wanadoo.fr/philatelie-et-cie/imagesdiverses/ozadh.jpg
|
| Outback Services
| upper line : 11*11 1/2
| bottom line : 11 3/4
|
| Space
| left design 11 3/4
| right design 11 1/2*11
|
| I tried to align the first teeth in order to see the difference, the
| perf written above is from Michel.
|
| In reality I've got :
| 11 1/4*11/4 and 11 3/4 for Outback
| 11 3/4 and 11 1/2*11 1/4 for Space
|
| So, I let you distinguish and tell the origin of these stamps, it's
| too hard for me! )
|
| I put also the 3 issues of desert star flower in order to be sure of
| the right terms.
|
| From left to right :
| - crowned corner=sinoid=classical adhesive=SNP issue
|
| - gummed issue
|
| - mock perf=2d perf adhesive=Pemara issue
|
| We have to add to these 3 broad kinds the possible variations of
| perf....
|
| Hope it's help, but the more we speak about these adhesives, the less
| I see clearly the stamps (
| --
| ThibauT
| Best regards from Vergèze (France), city of Perrier ;o)

dear Roger,

I suggest you have a look at my scan of http://www.xs4all.nl/~dziewon/fila/images/au_die01.jpg

There are 3 types shown of the self-adhesive die-cut pseudo-perforations. The traditonal
comb-perforations all have the remnants of paper fibres shown at the edges, the self-adhesives
have no fibres whatsoever, this is how to recognize self-adhesives of no matter what country!

groetjes, Rein



On 8 Oct 2004 20:53:59 G, "Roger Smith" wrote:

(snip)

ThibauT, thanks for putting these together. I must get a scanner some time.

The striking thing about comparing the gummed and Pemara versions of the
desert flower stamp is how clean are the "perforations" of the Pemara
version, as viewed under high magnification. They would be of course, since
no tearing is involved in separating a single copy for affixing to an
envelope. The tearing is very apparent in the case of the gummed stamp.

Regards, Roger


.

Pour participer à nos (d)ébats, (Rein Bakhuizen van
den Brink) sussurait le 09 Oct 2004 12:32:51 GMT :


dear Roger,

I suggest you have a look at my scan of http://www.xs4all.nl/~dziewon/fila/images/au_die01.jpg

There are 3 types shown of the self-adhesive die-cut pseudo-perforations. The traditonal
comb-perforations all have the remnants of paper fibres shown at the edges, the self-adhesives
have no fibres whatsoever, this is how to recognize self-adhesives of no matter what country!

groetjes, Rein

Hi all,
I think that the problem is no more on "how to distinghuish the
self-adhesives from the gummed", but on "from where come the different
self-adhesives" ;o)

Have anybody an australian catalogue (from an australian editor of
course) in order to see the details in it???

I discover the variations of SNP issues in my Michel catalogue, but I
guess that Michel is not the absolute reference for this coutry (but
much more precise that my first Yvert ;o) )
Stanley-Gibbons maybe?? Or Seven Seas?? And Brusden-White??

Rodney, when you will have the Michel in your hands, it may be easier
to work on these perfs (and increase your french collection but I'm
off topic !! )) )
--
ThibauT
Best regards from Vergèze (France), city of Perrier ;o)

G'day ThibauT,

but on "from where come the different self-adhesives" ;o)

Agreed, I have the Bulletins going back 30 years, I am going through them so
have patience with die cuts the cynosure will shift from "perforation" nomenclature
to manufacture origin and paper technology classification.

My bookshelf is groaning under the weight of literature I have Michel
but not Michel on Australia, no doubt Brusden White will come to
the party in the next 10 years. I am very hesitant to put effort into
these issues that are not far removed from "labels", but I shall
hoard them naturally and they are always wanted in trades/swaps.

Greetings from Sunny Australia (land of the Melanoma)

Pour participer à nos (d)ébats, "Rodney"
sussurait le Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:01:50 +0800 :

Hi Rodney,

G'day ThibauT,

but on "from where come the different self-adhesives" ;o)

Agreed, I have the Bulletins going back 30 years, I am going through them so
have patience with die cuts the cynosure will shift from "perforation" nomenclature
to manufacture origin and paper technology classification.

30 years!!! ouch, I just have downloaded the stamp bulletins available
on the post.com.au, and it's only years but I'm thinking that it's
enormous to read!!

My bookshelf is groaning under the weight of literature I have Michel
but not Michel on Australia,

just wait few days ;o)

no doubt Brusden White will come to
the party in the next 10 years.

always very ancient issue of the catalogue?? not addition each year??

I am very hesitant to put effort into
these issues that are not far removed from "labels", but I shall
hoard them naturally and they are always wanted in trades/swaps.

about which issues are you speaking?? self-adhesives or variations in
the self-adhesives??
I began my collection only 3 years ago with a Yvert catalogue and it
was my first stamp collection of my life. I discover a new face of
Australian stamps 2 years ago when I bought a Scott on CD. I enjoyed
these collecting hobby and wanted to know more about the country, the
stamp, the theme... I decided to have a Michel 2 months ago (my wife
collects Germany and Michel catalogue is delicious) and I know right
now that I will always to put effort in my hobby and that I will
always discover new things about issues and so on. Of course, I make
priority of the 'normal' issues and perfins, OS, frama, states go in a
dedicated box.
So it's my life, but I do no understand why are you hesitant with
"labels", I'm sure in a few years you will enjoy to have kept them ;o)

Greetings from Sunny Australia (land of the Melanoma)

Best regards from South France, near Camargue, wine and bulls, even I
like Perrier water! lol

--
ThibauT
Best regards from Vergèze (France), city of Perrier ;o)