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#1
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There ought to be a law...
.... against grading coins, then selling them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this. Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price. Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest. I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions? Anita |
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#2
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There ought to be a law...
On 14 Mar 2006 12:10:51 -0800, "
wrote: ... against grading coins, then selling them. http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this. Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price. Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest. I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions? Anita IMHO, there are a few marks too many in the obverse fields and on Liberty's cheek and neck to warrant MS-65. The reverse looks very nice, but I'd have to see the coin for real before paying this kind of money for it. As a reality check, I would say MS-64, but possibly only MS-63. Funny thing, I just received two Morgan dollars in NGC slabs today that I bought from a seller (in Germany) on eBay with whom I have dealt frequently in the past: one 1890-P graded MS-63, and a 1902-O graded MS-64. The numbers on both slabs are only a couple dozen apart, making me think that they could have well been graded the same day. The seller was selling them for about MS-62 money each with a BIN, so I snapped them both up. Interestingly enough, I like the MS-63 coin a lot better than the MS-64. The MS-63 has (to me) less marks, more luster, and while the reverse of the MS-63 coin is nearly perfect, the MS-64 coin has fingerprints on it (reverse) as well as what might have even been a little cleaning in the reverse fields at some point in the past, because those parts are slightly toned today. At the point in time when the coin was slabbed, they might have gone unnoticed. I think I'll probably post some pictures of these two coins sometime later this week ... it was very educational to see them side-by-side. In general, I would only buy MS-64 or above in a PCGS or NGC slab for the simple reason that a picture on eBay just doesn't show me what I want to see -- unless it is an exceptionally good picture of an exceptionally good coin. Ira's coin auctions are just about the only ones I have ever seen that would fit the "exceptional" bill, and his coins are usually slabbed by one of those TPGS anyway. -- Bob Hairgrove |
#3
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Coins side by side, 1 point difference
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:09:22 +0100, Bob Hairgrove
did carve unto the very living rock upon which we now stand: Funny thing, I just received two Morgan dollars in NGC slabs today that I bought from a seller (in Germany) on eBay with whom I have dealt frequently in the past: one 1890-P graded MS-63, and a 1902-O graded MS-64. The numbers on both slabs are only a couple dozen apart, making me think that they could have well been graded the same day. The seller was selling them for about MS-62 money each with a BIN, so I snapped them both up. Interestingly enough, I like the MS-63 coin a lot better than the MS-64. The MS-63 has (to me) less marks, more luster, and while the reverse of the MS-63 coin is nearly perfect, the MS-64 coin has fingerprints on it (reverse) as well as what might have even been a little cleaning in the reverse fields at some point in the past, because those parts are slightly toned today. At a show here a couple of years ago, I had a similar experience with a couple of Franklins. Same year, same MM, same grading service, one a 65, the other a 66. I had to look with a loupe to see the tiniest differences the dealer pointed out to me. Both coins looked great but I would have been happy with the 65 rather than the 66 since most folks I'm guessing woulnd't be able to tell the difference w/o a loupe either. And the only difference there was a couple of the tiniest marks in one part of the reverse field. Other than that, I saw no differences between the two coins. Unfortunately, I didn't even have the funds even for the 65 that particular day. But if I did have the $$$.... Steve Buy the book before the coin don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it! It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf (remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail) It's more than you think: http://www.premierpersonalization.com |
#4
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Coins side by side, 1 point difference
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:43:27 GMT, Steve Ruud
wrote: On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:09:22 +0100, Bob Hairgrove did carve unto the very living rock upon which we now stand: Funny thing, I just received two Morgan dollars in NGC slabs today that I bought from a seller (in Germany) on eBay with whom I have dealt frequently in the past: one 1890-P graded MS-63, and a 1902-O graded MS-64. The numbers on both slabs are only a couple dozen apart, making me think that they could have well been graded the same day. The seller was selling them for about MS-62 money each with a BIN, so I snapped them both up. Interestingly enough, I like the MS-63 coin a lot better than the MS-64. The MS-63 has (to me) less marks, more luster, and while the reverse of the MS-63 coin is nearly perfect, the MS-64 coin has fingerprints on it (reverse) as well as what might have even been a little cleaning in the reverse fields at some point in the past, because those parts are slightly toned today. At a show here a couple of years ago, I had a similar experience with a couple of Franklins. Same year, same MM, same grading service, one a 65, the other a 66. I had to look with a loupe to see the tiniest differences the dealer pointed out to me. Both coins looked great but I would have been happy with the 65 rather than the 66 since most folks I'm guessing woulnd't be able to tell the difference w/o a loupe either. And the only difference there was a couple of the tiniest marks in one part of the reverse field. Other than that, I saw no differences between the two coins. Unfortunately, I didn't even have the funds even for the 65 that particular day. But if I did have the $$$.... At some point, I decided that MS-64 was probably good enough for me until I could really tell the difference, unless I absolutely fell in love with it. Otherwise, I would just be buying the slab and not the coin. Haven't regretted that decision yet! I suppose that's one of the positive things about slabbing not being so popular here in Europe: there is a very good chance of picking up an MS-64 or better coin for much less money than I would have to pay for it if slabbed. However, the reverse is also true; you have to be careful not to pay MS-63 money for MS-61. And after seeing a few MS-64 slabs, I'm wondering if some of the raw coins I have bought over here, which I graded myself as MS-62/63, might not actually get a point or two higher in a slab? -- Bob Hairgrove |
#5
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There ought to be a law...
On 14 Mar 2006 12:10:51 -0800, "
wrote: ... against grading coins, then selling them. http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this. Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price. Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest. I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions? Anita Well, not that I would bid on it, but I'm blocked by him anyway from the big debacle where he blocked everyone in RCC. Anyway, he's got make an offer available on that auction. If I could bid I would be happy to offer $45 for the coin. Cliff |
#6
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There ought to be a law...
On 14 Mar 2006 12:10:51 -0800, "
is alleged to have written: ... against grading coins, then selling them. http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this. Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price. Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest. I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions? Anita Well, I think there are too many hits on the obverse for a 65. 64, possibly 63. Grade on the slab just happens to be on the high side of the price break (Pcgs MS65=1400, ms64=415) for that date. Bruce ************************************************* ANA R162074 EAC 3606 To email me, remember that RoadRunner and Coyote do not mix. ************************************************* |
#8
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Coins side by side, 1 point difference
On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:54:55 +0100, Bob Hairgrove
did carve unto the very living rock upon which we now stand: On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:43:27 GMT, Steve Ruud wrote: At a show here a couple of years ago, I had a similar experience with a couple of Franklins. Same year, same MM, same grading service, one a 65, the other a 66. I had to look with a loupe to see the tiniest differences the dealer pointed out to me. Both coins looked great but I would have been happy with the 65 rather than the 66 since most folks I'm guessing woulnd't be able to tell the difference w/o a loupe either. And the only difference there was a couple of the tiniest marks in one part of the reverse field. Other than that, I saw no differences between the two coins. Unfortunately, I didn't even have the funds even for the 65 that particular day. But if I did have the $$$.... At some point, I decided that MS-64 was probably good enough for me until I could really tell the difference, unless I absolutely fell in love with it. Otherwise, I would just be buying the slab and not the coin. Haven't regretted that decision yet! I suppose that's one of the positive things about slabbing not being so popular here in Europe: there is a very good chance of picking up an MS-64 or better coin for much less money than I would have to pay for it if slabbed. However, the reverse is also true; you have to be careful not to pay MS-63 money for MS-61. And after seeing a few MS-64 slabs, I'm wondering if some of the raw coins I have bought over here, which I graded myself as MS-62/63, might not actually get a point or two higher in a slab? I agree with you Bob. I've got a full collection of Franklins with only 1 slabbed and not in the album. I've been thinking of working on (what should be very obtainable) MS64FBL set. 65FBL would be nice, but I'm gonna work on the Barber series' as well so the 64FBL will have to do. I agree with the general sentiment that is sometimes posted here that AU58 coins look better than MS62/3 coins and are far more reasonably priced. Funny thing eye-appeal is! Maybe one day the slabbing companies will recognize the Ruud pedigree, but until then I may have to give LEGS and extra $5 for attribution! Steve Buy the book before the coin don't forget to *READ* the book after you've bought it! It doesn't do anything just sitting on the shelf (remove ATTITUDE to reply via e-mail) It's more than you think: http://www.premierpersonalization.com |
#9
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There ought to be a law...
wrote: ... against grading coins, then selling them. http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this. Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price. Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest. I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions? Anita http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/acg.jpg |
#10
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There ought to be a law...
wrote: ... against grading coins, then selling them. http://cgi.ebay.com/1878-8-TF-MORGAN...cmd ZViewItem The whole idea of third party grading is lost when people do this. Sellers can just crack out coins, up the grade, and jack the price. Since there's no law, the only thing we can do is not to buy them. I like the PCGS rule that bars graders to sell coins while they are working as graders. It eliminates the immediate conflict of interest. I'm sorry the beautiful 1878-8TF is trapped in that slab. Maybe we should start a fund to "free Liberty!" She may actually have a chance for a real 65, IMO. Any other opinions? Anita http://www.dragonswest.com/coins/acg.jpg |
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