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#41
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Alan & Erin Williams wrote in
: I just added my newsreader to the National "Do Not Prevaricate" list. So you won't be reading any more posts?? ;o) Well, I hope you'll continue to post! |
#43
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Where were you, I got the memo last week. LOL :-)
-- Yousri ANA R-210745 World Mints: http://yousri.home.comcast.net "Alan & Erin Williams" wrote in message ... DFloyd wrote: ojunk (Coin Saver) wrote in : From: DFloyd All generalizations are always untrue. ;o) Does this mean the conspiracy has been called off? Why wasn't I informed? 8-) Coin Saver Didn't you get the memo, the vote to replace conspiracy with paranoia passed. When?? Who Voted For That??? Why won;t they SAY SO PUBLICALLY???? Alan 'what?' |
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#45
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Alan & Erin Williams wrote in
: When?? Who Voted For That??? Why won;t they SAY SO PUBLICALLY???? Alan 'what?' Tweak, increase your caffine intake. ;o) |
#46
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Ira Stein is making me laugh now....what a scumbag. All he wants to do is
point out that there are thieves in other walks of life as well. Of course there are. This , however, doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of thieves in the coin business. "Ira Stein" wrote in message ... Tom writes: It's unfortunate, but stories about the unscrupulous behavior of coin dealers are far too common and not all anecdotal. A prominent member of the PNG (since resigned), Ronald J. Gillio, was indicted last year on felony charges of trying to swindle an old man out of his valuables. snip It would be nice if all the horror stories were just that, stories, but the unpleasant reality is that there are crooks among us. Ron Gillio has been indicted, NOT convicted. When & IF he's been convicted, THEN you may call him a crook. I will agree there are crooks among is, as that's certainly true. Too bad the coin dealers can't be honest and trustworthy like corporate executives raiding employee pension funds, like folks collecting unemployment insurance and/or disability benefits and yet are working "under the table," like the doctors and hospitals that phony up non-existent tests and other illusory medical procedures, like the dentists who collect Medicaid benefits from patients who haven't shown up for years yet are still in the records, like our wonderful politicians who always tell us the truth yet feather their own nests by collecting $140,000/yr for like after merely serving one terms, like stock brokers who churn the acc'ts of widows and the elderly putting them into high risk investments in which the brokerage house has a position, and so on. Regards, Ira Stein |
#47
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Phil Barnhart wrote:
This summer, a good friend and ethics professor at a prominent law school invited me up for a weekend. During this visit he commented that it had been quite awhile since I had mentioned coins to him. I had been an avid collector. I told him the truth. "I am sick of dishonest, unethical and greedy people. So I have sold almost all my coins and am leaving the hobby. It is just too hard on the psyche" Where did you sell your coins? Did you get your price for them? What was so hard on your psyche? Collecting? Constant selling? Constant buying? If coin collecting was stressful for you, wait until you get a little deeper into your life. After a great deal of debate, I made an offer to him. The ANA convention would be in Baltimore in a few weeks and I offered to prove to him that finding an honest dealer was harder in the convention floor than in any court. The bet was on. This is sounding more and more like a high school homework paper. We met up at the convention, and I explained what we had to do. I had two coins, slabbed by well-known services, that we would remove from the slabs and try to sell. Each would be in an Eagle holder. Our story was that these were my father's coins, and he was now in a home and needed some money. One would be an 1892-O Half Eagle graded AU-55 (value between $1500-$2000). The second would be an 1916 Standing Lib graded AU-58 (value between $4500-$5100). Smart move. Throw away re-slabbing costs for $6-7,000 worth of coins to play your little game. Nice to be wealthy, I guess. Over six hours we approached 40 dealers (one of which posts here on occasion - do you remember us?). We were lied to (10 dealers pointed to the price of an 1892 Half Eagle on their grey sheet instead of the New Orleans coin). 6 dealers gave us prices for the 1917 Standing lib. What did the others do? Almost every one asked us how much we wanted. One dealer even had similarly grade 1916 in his case - he purposely laid several papers over that area of the case while we chatted. Did you ever tell any dealer what price YOU wanted? With that BS story you were handing out, I would guess most dealers you approached suspected your two "raw" coins were stolen and they would lose their money if the police came to claim them. Did you have your baseball cap on backwards? Almost every dealer undergraded these coins considerably. They used the terms "very good" and "fine." At least 8 dealers said that they had been cleaned. Here are the lowest and highest offers: 1892-O Half Eagle Low offer: $250 Median offer: $650 High offer: $875 1916 Standing Lib Low offer: $50 (offered 3 times) Median offer: $550 High offer: $1300 Many of these dealers were good ANA members, respected, and heavy Coin World advertisers. Not a single one of them were ethical. One well-known dealer eyed the Standing lib for several minutes, declared it an "extra-fine" and offered me $900. "Are you positive about the grade?" "Oh, yes. I've dealt with thousands of coins over the years. My standards are very strict." "What about grading companies?" Many of his coins were slabbed. "They can be all over the map, but usually my grade matches theirs. Slabbing a coin is expensive, though." "So this coin is extra-fine, and you can give me $900 right now? How about $1100?" He pretends to think about it a bit. "I think I know someone who might take this. MMmmmmmmmmmm. Okay." "What if I told you I know this coin is actually AU, was purchased from B&M five years ago, and is worth over 4 grand?" If looks would kill, I'd be dead. "Everyone is entitled to their opinion. A coin is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it." He had a few other choice words then had to call someone on his cell. This dealer was the only one we confronted. One story out of 40? My good friend, the law profession, paid for drinks that night - and looked ill about our day. He agreed with me - in ANY other field what these dealers attempted would be unethical; in many cases even criminal fraud. One man's "caveat emptor" is another man's thievery. And I am sick of the lot of them. I just can't stand being around an entire crowd of people all trying to rip each other off. And certainly not any "fun." I've switched to wine tasting. Stop! You're making us cry. What do you think those dealers thought about YOU? Anyway, now you can relax tasting wines with the little finger crowd and sharing BS stories about a provocative vintage or that sassy little chardonet. Perhaps you'll fit in better with that crowd. For the record, I sent the coins back through the slabbing process - the standing lib came even back MS-63. Lol! I sold both of them - this time letting the dealer in LA know I knew what the coins were actually worth. The final price: 1916 Standing Lib: $5300 1892-O Half Eagle: $1600 From AU to MS-63? I'm surprised you didn't claim the slabbing companies are unethical. too. Be honest now. Didn't you get the feeling you ripped someone off when you saw that MS63? You said you were LOL. Bruce |
#48
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In article , "Robert"
writes: Ira Stein is making me laugh now....what a scumbag. All he wants to do is point out that there are thieves in other walks of life as well. Of course there are. This , however, doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of thieves in the coin business. Glad you're getting a chuckle out of it. That was my reaction to the original post, but apparently there are those who are more than willing to believe that 40 out of 40 dealers tried to rip off a couple of dudes with $5K worth of coins...even though had they made "reasonable" offers, they stood to make between $500 and $1000... If this were remotely possible, I'd be ashamed to be a coin dealer, too, primarily because it makes those 40 people among the dumbest people in the room. If you read this thread at all, there is no one here denying there are theives in the coin business. Ira's point was pretty obvious to those of who have been following the thread. Other businesses have their scumbags, too...and therefore a few bad apples can be expected to be found plying the coin business, just like all other businesses. The issue is not that there are crooks in the coins business...there are...or that there are crooks in all businesses...there are. The issue is, that even crooks are unlikely to ignore the oportunity to earn a day's wages by doing a legitmate deal...and the ridiculousness of 40 out of 40 guys allowing a $500+ profit walk away after a lowball offer is obvious to any thinking person. The flaw in the poster's story was exposed when he failed to follow thru by providing reasonable proof, which he said he had but, for some reason, won't divulge it here. If logic wasn't enough to demonstrate the foolishness of this liar, the failure to provide the names of the dealers and/or the people who would corroborate his story has pretty much shown him to be another in the long line of trolls who visit here regularly. He simply dug himself in deeper when he claimed to have admissions from the offenders and STILL he can't give us their names. My, my, either you're terminally naive, or a follow-up troll for the original guy. Which is it? dondi3 DONDI enterprises. BUY, SELL, TRADE. RARE COINS & PRECIOUS METALS Member COINNET, CSNS, ANA, INA, MOON, ILNA. |
#50
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