10 more 1933 double eagles are held in Fort Knox

In This Case, All That Glitters Is Gold. Just Don't Call Them Coins.

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By GLENN COLLINS
Published: August 12, 2005
The United States Mint announced yesterday that it had recovered 10
more of its fabled 1933 double eagle $20 gold pieces and stored them in
Fort Knox. But the family that sought to authenticate them at the Mint
claims that the government had no right to take them.

Beth Deisher, the editor of Coin World, said that "it has been rumored
for years that more of these coins were being held by private
citizens." The Mint's announcement on its Web site caused a sensation
in coin circles yesterday.

A 1933 double eagle that surfaced in 1996 is on exhibition at the
Federal Reserve Bank of New York, at 33 Liberty Street in Manhattan.
The Treasury declared it a coin as part of a legal settlement, and in
2002 it was sold at Sotheby's for $7.59 million - the most ever
publicly paid for a coin. The anonymous buyer has lent it for display.

"We are pleased that these 10 double eagles have been recovered," David
Lebryk, the Mint's acting director, said in the statement. "These
Double Eagles were never lawfully issued, but instead, were taken from
the United States Mint at Philadelphia in an unlawful manner more than
70 years ago. They are, and always have been, public property belonging
to the United States."

The Mint said that the Treasury would not declare them legal coins, or
auction them. They came to light last September when, the Mint said,
the government was approached by a lawyer for the family of a
Philadelphia jeweler.

The lawyer, Barry H. Berke of Manhattan, said the gold pieces were
"voluntarily" revealed to the government by Joan Langbord, the daughter
of the jeweler, Israel Switt, who died in the early 1980's. He added:
"The Mint has responded to their good-faith efforts to amicably resolve
any issues relating to their coins by seeking to keep the coins. The
Langbord family fully expects that their coins will be returned to them
so they can be freely traded like every other numismatic treasure with
a colorful history. I expect that if they are not returned there will
be litigation."

When the United States came off the gold standard in 1933, President
Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered the destruction of all but two of the
pieces - called double eagles because they were twice the value of a
$10 eagle gold piece. But some left the Mint under murky circumstances
that are still debated; any that have turned up have been claimed by
the Secret Service. Mr. Berke said that the government had never
established that the pieces were stolen.

In 2002, "the Mint guaranteed that no other double eagles would be
monetized, and that none other could be sold," said Ute Wartenberg
Kagan, executive director of the American Numismatic Society, so this
discovery would not lower the value of the Sotheby's coin.

"This notoriety might tend to increase the value of the coin," said
David Tripp, the author of "Illegal Tender: Gold, Greed and the Mystery
of the Lost 1933 Double Eagle."

Of the possibility of a lawsuit, Dr. Wartenberg Kagan said: "The family
has to come up with an argument about why United States law doesn't
apply in this case, since the government holds that these coins cannot
be legally owned."

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When I was 16 I got "busted" for having fireworks. Police asked me to
bring them all downstairs. I only brought about 1/2 of them down
(couldn't carry all of them in one trip). They were happy with what I
brought them and left, not giving me enough time to get the remainder.
Wonder if these folks only turned in 1/2 of what they had, just to see
what happens.

Yes indeedy, now I see what's happening - the family wants to get their
pieces "monetized" and sold on a fifty-fifty deal like the Fenton
piece. IMHO, litigate a little bit, and that's actually likely to be
the outcome. They won't see $75 million for the lot, but they will
probably do well.

oly

Jud wrote:

When I was 16 I got "busted" for having fireworks. Police asked me to
bring them all downstairs. I only brought about 1/2 of them down
(couldn't carry all of them in one trip). They were happy with what I
brought them and left, not giving me enough time to get the remainder.
Wonder if these folks only turned in 1/2 of what they had, just to see
what happens.

Taking 1933 Double Gold Eagles to the Mint for authentication reminds me
of the incident in NYC. Two teenaged hookers went to the police seeking
an arrest warrant for a john who had paid them with a bad check....

Alan
'some are unclear on the concept'

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:19:05 -0400, Alan Williams
wrote:

Jud wrote:

When I was 16 I got "busted" for having fireworks. Police asked me to
bring them all downstairs. I only brought about 1/2 of them down
(couldn't carry all of them in one trip). They were happy with what I
brought them and left, not giving me enough time to get the remainder.
Wonder if these folks only turned in 1/2 of what they had, just to see
what happens.

Taking 1933 Double Gold Eagles to the Mint for authentication reminds me
of the incident in NYC. Two teenaged hookers went to the police seeking
an arrest warrant for a john who had paid them with a bad check....

In Germany and Switzerland, paying with a bad check is definitely not
a good idea. They would arrest the johns. Falls under the heading of
"fraudulent use of services" or something similar (it's called
"Erschleichung einer Dienstleistung" in German).

Prostitution is legal, but highly regulated, in many European
countries. I believe it is also legal in the state of Nevada (?).
Streetwalking, however, is usually illegal.

(Disclaimer: IANAL, and I have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of
any of the above!)

--
Bob Hairgrove

They shudda tried with just one piece, to see what would happen, and if
they got lucky and established a precedent then revealed the others.
Of course, if the idiot lawyer had read the book "Illegal Tender,"
which mentions the (now-former) owner of the coins by name, he would
have known what a vendetta the Treasury Dept. has had against these
coins, and quietly moved them to a Swiss bank. Maybe she can sue the
lawyer for criminal stupidity.
TD

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:54:46 +0200, Bob Hairgrove
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:19:05 -0400, Alan Williams
wrote:

Taking 1933 Double Gold Eagles to the Mint for authentication reminds me
of the incident in NYC. Two teenaged hookers went to the police seeking
an arrest warrant for a john who had paid them with a bad check....

In Germany and Switzerland, paying with a bad check is definitely not
a good idea. They would arrest the johns. Falls under the heading of
"fraudulent use of services" or something similar (it's called
"Erschleichung einer Dienstleistung" in German).

Prostitution is legal, but highly regulated, in many European
countries. I believe it is also legal in the state of Nevada (?).
Streetwalking, however, is usually illegal.

(Disclaimer: IANAL, and I have absolutely no first-hand knowledge of
any of the above!)

If I understand the difference (and IANAL as well), in the US if you
have a contract (even a verbal one) for something illegal, you don't
have the option of using the legal system to enforce the contract.

The situation with Nevada is that it's not allowed in Clark or
Washoe Counties (Vegas and Reno), and it's also illegal in Carson City
and Tahoe. The remaining counties have the option of making it legal.
Even then, it's legal only for licensed establishments. Believe it or
not, I had to learn this for a former job.

take care,
Scott

Gee! When I was a kid, we were setting off fireworks one day when a police
motorcycle came tearing down the street, siren blazing and red lights
flashing. We all scattered to the four winds. The motorcycle cop pulled
into our driveway and when he got off we noticed that it was our uncle. He
asked for our father and when my father came out, my uncle opened the back
of the three wheel motorcycle and took out a bag. He gave it to my father
and said that he had just taken these fireworks from some kids. Then he
said, "Don't let the cops catch you with them." And away he went. True
story.


"Jud" wrote in message
oups.com...
When I was 16 I got "busted" for having fireworks. Police asked me to
bring them all downstairs. I only brought about 1/2 of them down
(couldn't carry all of them in one trip). They were happy with what I
brought them and left, not giving me enough time to get the remainder.
Wonder if these folks only turned in 1/2 of what they had, just to see
what happens.

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:16:57 GMT,
(Scott Stevenson) wrote:

Believe it or
not, I had to learn this for a former job.

I guess it would be easier to decide whether to believe it or not if
we knew what kind of job it was.

--
Bob Hairgrove

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:34:57 +0200, Bob Hairgrove
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:16:57 GMT,
(Scott Stevenson) wrote:

Believe it or
not, I had to learn this for a former job.

I guess it would be easier to decide whether to believe it or not if
we knew what kind of job it was.

I worked for a company that made software that city and county
governments use to track things like building permits, business
licenses, etc. We had several clients in Nevada, and one of them had
a license type for "adult entertainment".

take care,
Scott
the inspectors said its not nearly as glamorous as it sounds...