Another fake Russian coin?

http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...tem=3970547825

Look at the tips of the eagle feathers.

--
Bob Hairgrove

Compared to these?


http://members.aye.net/~cbgnkiro/boo...e/3-rubles.htm

I don't see a difference. Do you?

~Anka

On 18 Apr 2005 15:09:28 -0700, "Anka" wrote:

Compared to these?


http://members.aye.net/~cbgnkiro/boo...e/3-rubles.htm

I don't see a difference. Do you?

~Anka

Thanks for the link ... these pictures match the ones in Uzdenikov
exactly. Makes it much easier to compare with the auction pictures.

Now look at the 9th, 10th and 11th feathers on the right. In the
original, they are more or less straight, slanting upwards only
slightly. In the auction picture, they are curved!

There are other very subtle differences: for example, look at the left
wing where the joint of the wing is closest to the left eagle's head.
The shape is different; the original seems more angular than the
auction photo.

Do you see it??

--
Bob Hairgrove

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:01:56 +0200, Bob Hairgrove
wrote:

Now look at the 9th, 10th and 11th feathers on the right...

....counting from top to bottom, I should have added.

--
Bob Hairgrove

Yes, I do see it! However, does this necessarily mean that the coin in
question is a fake? Can it not be considered a die variation?

R.W. Julian...where are you?


~Anka

Bob Hairgrove wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAP=ADI.d...m=3D3970547825

Look at the tips of the eagle feathers

Isn't the color a bit strange for a platinum coin?

I have looked at the auction in question and cannot say one way or the
other. I have compared
the photos with some high-quality illustrations but the auction photo
just is not good enough to
be certain. However, Mr. Hairgrove's post has a very good point in that
the Russian platinum
3 roubles was widely faked in the 1950s and 1960s, probably in Beirut,
and buying Russian platinum
coins from an unknown internet seller is like playing Russian roulette
with all the cylinders loaded.
No doubt some of the pieces are genuine but more often they are not. In
this series it is best to buy
from a dealer who has the necessary expertise.

RWJ

Anka wrote:

Yes, I do see it! However, does this necessarily mean that the coin in
question is a fake? Can it not be considered a die variation?

R.W. Julian...where are you?


~Anka

Thanks, RW! Or should I say, spacibo!

~Anka

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:02:08 -0500, RW Julian
wrote:

I have looked at the auction in question and cannot say one way or the
other. I have compared
the photos with some high-quality illustrations but the auction photo
just is not good enough to
be certain.

It helps to display the large auction images in the pop-up window ...
if you then scroll it down a bit so that the image of the reverse (on
the left) is in the upper left corner of its window, you can open the
website of Anka's link in its own window and move the eBay auction
pictures' window so that they are side-by-side. The large images are
almost exactly the same size of the other ones, making i easy to
compare.

However, Mr. Hairgrove's post has a very good point in that
the Russian platinum
3 roubles was widely faked in the 1950s and 1960s, probably in Beirut,
and buying Russian platinum
coins from an unknown internet seller is like playing Russian roulette
with all the cylinders loaded.

Why would anyone in their right mind put no reserve on a platinum coin
starting the bid at one Euro? This coin is potentially worth around
$800 in XF, maybe more since the dollar prices given in Krause are
based on outdated exchange rates, and since prices for Russian coins
in general are booming. Besides, the coin weighs approx. 1/3 troy oz.,
so the price given for such coins in grade F by Krause is considerably
less than for bullion at the present spot prices.

No doubt some of the pieces are genuine but more often they are not. In
this series it is best to buy
from a dealer who has the necessary expertise.

Very true.

Anka wrote:

Yes, I do see it! However, does this necessarily mean that the coin in
question is a fake? Can it not be considered a die variation?

I find it hard to imagine many different die variations for these
coins. With typical mintage numbers of only about 50,000 - 100,000 per
year, IMHO it is unlikely that more than one die pair would be used
for any given year. However, this would be true for silver coins, and
I'm not familiar with how much platinum strikes would wear down a die,
so this might not hold true for platinum coins.

In addition to the fakes, we know that these coins were also restruck
at later dates in unknown quantities by the Russians themselves.
However, they used the original dies.

I'll stand by my conclusion -- that this must be a very clever
counterfeit. If we could weigh the coin, we might know more...maybe
I'll ask the seller to weigh it. With 100% feedback to date, this
might just be an honest slip-up. OTOH, the low entry bid with no
reserve raises a red flag.

Hopefully the buyer will weigh the coin and have the specific gravity
checked.

--
Bob Hairgrove

On 18 Apr 2005 17:56:35 -0700, "Phil DeMayo" wrote:

Bob Hairgrove wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.ch/ws/eBayISAP?.dll?...tem=3970547825

Look at the tips of the eagle feathers

Isn't the color a bit strange for a platinum coin?

I think so, too, but it is hard to tell from pictures like this what
the real color of a coin is. One would think that platinum, like gold,
would retain at least some mint luster in spite of being heavily worn.
But I have seen gold coins that looked pretty awful, and I've never
seen platinum coins except from a distance, so I can't say for sure.

--
Bob Hairgrove