Phony Coins

? "Reid Goldsborough" ?????? ??? ??????
...
I thought I'd break this out, since the subject matter has veered
considerably from that of the original post.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:26:45 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

Mike, I really enjoyed your analysis:-)

But Michael Marotta called Saints "kitchy." That's blasphemous. He
also said they're "cheap copies of a Greek statue." That's
treasonable. Finally, he said they're dishonest, though he didn't say
why.

Probably Reid but I said that I enjoyed the way he wrote his analysis, you
must admit it was beautiful:-)
Oh come on boys you must not always be antagonistic, enjoy beautiful writing
even when it comes from someone you are not in good relation!

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo
http://s208.photobucket.com/albums/bb120/golanule/
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html

Almost all coins copy other coins in one way or another, blatantly or
subtly. The Saint actually copies only the obverse of Saints that
copies a Greek statue. More accurately, the obverse was inspired by
the Nike of Paionios of Mende, a Greek sculptor of the fifth century
BC. It's not a copy of it. Both Saint-Gaudens and Roosevelt were
aficionados of ancient Greek coins (who isn't?), and the Saint clearly
pays homage to this great tradition. In contrast, the eagle on the
reverse was inspired by the eagle on the obverse of the Flying Eagle
cent of 1856 to 1858, though there are also less direct links here
back to the coins of ancient Greece. The reverse also isn't a slavish
copy. There are lots of other coins, U.S. and otherwise, inspired in
similar ways.

I don't see how Saints are kitchy or, spelling the word correctly,
kitschy, which implies sentimental and pretentious, or how they're
cheap, or dishonest. Yo, Mike. Care to elucidate? All of this is
subjective, of course, but it can be really interesting to hear what's
behind others' views about the desirability of a particular coin type,
you know, what's really behind it. If you're not up to responding,
maybe Anka can for you. g

--

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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:45:44 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

Probably Reid but I said that I enjoyed the way he wrote his analysis, you
must admit it was beautiful:-)

Michael does write beautifully, I agree.

Oh come on boys you must not always be antagonistic, enjoy beautiful writing
even when it comes from someone you are not in good relation!

I like Michael. It's his hairstyle that I take issue with.

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On Jul 27, 1:26?pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

Almost all coins copy other coins in one way or another, blatantly or
subtly. The Saint actually copies only the obverse of Saints that
copies a Greek statue. More accurately, the obverse was inspired by
the Nike of Paionios of Mende, a Greek sculptor of the fifth century
BC. It's not a copy of it. Both Saint-Gaudens and Roosevelt were
aficionados of ancient Greek coins (who isn't?), and the Saint clearly
pays homage to this great tradition. In contrast, the eagle on the
reverse was inspired by the eagle on the obverse of the Flying Eagle
cent of 1856 to 1858, though there are also less direct links here
back to the coins of ancient Greece. The reverse also isn't a slavish
copy.......

Apparently Saint-Gaudens may have had some second (or first) thoughts
about the reverse of the $20 Saint. There exists a plaster of the
reverse used for the $10 Saint with "Twenty Dollars" at the bottom.

Here's a picture I took of that plaster at the Saint-Gaudens National
Historic Site a few years ago:

http://members.aol.com/flip1948/pix/...te-reverse.jpg

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:19:30 -0700, Phil DeMayo
wrote:

Apparently Saint-Gaudens may have had some second (or first) thoughts
about the reverse of the $20 Saint. There exists a plaster of the
reverse used for the $10 Saint with "Twenty Dollars" at the bottom.

Here's a picture I took of that plaster at the Saint-Gaudens National
Historic Site a few years ago:

http://members.aol.com/flip1948/pix/...te-reverse.jpg

His ultimate choice was the better one, with the flying eagle of the
Saint much more dynamic and majestic than the perched eagle of his ten
dollar gold piece. The obverse of the twenty, needless to say, is much
better as well, a stunning personification of Liberty, strong and
womanly, striding vigorously toward you, brilliant Sun behind her, a
torch in one hand, symbol of intelligence, an olive branch in the
other, symbol of peace. The coin, taken as a whole, is classically
beautiful, the ancient Greek origin of the coin's iconography as clear
as the ancient Greek origin of our civilization and way of life. It's
no wonder the Saint is widely regarded as the most beautiful of U.S.
coins and among the most beautiful of all coins in history. These eyes
haven't seen one more beautiful.

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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:26:52 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

The Saint actually copies only the obverse of Saints that
copies a Greek statue.

This should have read: It's only the obverse of the Saint that copies
a Greek statue.

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On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:13:42 -0400, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:19:30 -0700, Phil DeMayo
wrote:

Apparently Saint-Gaudens may have had some second (or first) thoughts
about the reverse of the $20 Saint. There exists a plaster of the
reverse used for the $10 Saint with "Twenty Dollars" at the bottom.

Here's a picture I took of that plaster at the Saint-Gaudens National
Historic Site a few years ago:

http://members.aol.com/flip1948/pix/...te-reverse.jpg

His ultimate choice was the better one, with the flying eagle of the
Saint much more dynamic and majestic than the perched eagle of his ten
dollar gold piece. The obverse of the twenty, needless to say, is much
better as well, a stunning personification of Liberty, strong and
womanly, striding vigorously toward you, brilliant Sun behind her, a
torch in one hand, symbol of intelligence, an olive branch in the
other, symbol of peace. The coin, taken as a whole, is classically
beautiful, the ancient Greek origin of the coin's iconography as clear
as the ancient Greek origin of our civilization and way of life. It's
no wonder the Saint is widely regarded as the most beautiful of U.S.
coins and among the most beautiful of all coins in history. These eyes
haven't seen one more beautiful.

Dang Reid I am almost stunned, you admitted that you like the design
of at least one American Coin!?!?!? Wow somethin just froze over....


Regards,

Gary

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:58:03 -0400, Gary Loveless wrote:

Dang Reid I am almost stunned, you admitted that you like the design
of at least one American Coin!?!?!? Wow somethin just froze over....


There are a few good U.S. coin designs. The Saint, needless to say, is
the best overall. IMO. Walker comes next. Standing Lib third. All
three issued during the golden age of U.S. coinage. The most
attractive Liberty is the Draped Bust Liberty, the epitome of womanly
beauty and confidence, and the coin overall is attractive, the
Heraldic Eagles anyway, but neither obverse nor reverse is
artistically inspired. The Liberty Head double eagle is the second
most attractive Liberty, the Peace dollar the third. I wouldn't kick
either out of bed.

Alas, most U.S. coin designs either started out awful or became so
through overuse. The culprit: Design by committee to appease the
loudest constituents. Some designs are awful because of changing
aesthetic sensibilities. The Morgan Liberty may have been attractive
in her day, but today she's jowly, fat, dull, and sullen with awful
hair. The dead presidents are all uninspired, though the Kennedy half
isn't bad simply because JFK was so attractive himself. Conversely,
the Franklin half is attractive because Old Ben was so ugly, with his
character and intelligence shining through. The Buffalo nickel is
similarly attractive, the harsh, worn sadness of the Indian a
remarkably revealing and poignant window into a defeated and declining
culture, a statement also, if you think it through, about how all
civilizations are born, flourish, plateau, decline, and die.

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On Jul 29, 12:50?pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

There are a few good U.S. coin designs. The Saint, needless to say, is
the best overall. IMO. Walker comes next. Standing Lib third. All
three issued during the golden age of U.S. coinage.....

What, you don't like the Buffalo Nickel?

Saint-Gaudens probably had more than a little influence on the
designers of a couple of these coins. Both James Earle Fraser (buffalo
nickel) and Adolph Weinman (walking liberty) worked as assistants to
Saint-Gaudens up in Cornish, New Hampshire.

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 13:33:50 -0700, Phil DeMayo
wrote:

What, you don't like the Buffalo Nickel?

I do like it, as I said.

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In article .com, Phil DeMayo wrote:
On Jul 29, 12:50?pm, Reid Goldsborough
wrote:

There are a few good U.S. coin designs. The Saint, needless to say, is
the best overall. IMO. Walker comes next. Standing Lib third. All
three issued during the golden age of U.S. coinage.....

What, you don't like the Buffalo Nickel?

Saint-Gaudens probably had more than a little influence on the
designers of a couple of these coins. Both James Earle Fraser (buffalo
nickel) and Adolph Weinman (walking liberty) worked as assistants to
Saint-Gaudens up in Cornish, New Hampshire.

i won't kick a saint out of the old collection, but when i have the money, mz
liberty warms my heart. but if i can afford it, them chiefs come first.
i don't know if it's the incuse design or just the sheer strength of that
indian portrait, or maybe that kinda scrawny eagle on the reverse, those are
my faves.
some of those large mexican gold eagles are really nice, too.
but someday i really want a reichsbank bar with the swastika on it.
i would like to have the only version of that stinking symbol that has any
value, especially since it isn't intrinsic in the symbol.
i know those bars still exist and where several are.......