I bought a Morgan on ebay that looks like a VAM Top 100

I know little about Morgans other than what I read and see on the
various forums. This is my third slabbed Morgan and I sold one of the
other two. In fact, I'm not sure what inspired me to bid on this one.
Well, actually I have an idea, but maybe I'll save that for another
post.

This is an 1883-O that looks like a VAM-4 to me. Yes, I have the 4th
edition VAM book that I bought for the Peace Dollar section. I'd like
your confirmation as well as any wild guesses on grade. My images are
not great and the tone is so thick and splotchy on the obverse that
it's hard to see the surface condition. In fact, with the coin in hand
it's hard to see. Any idea what kind of premium this VAM is bringing?

Warning: The first image is large.

I also included three shots of the mintmark and one shot of the date.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/RGT/1883-O.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/RGT/1883-OMM.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1883-Odate.jpg

Randy Thompson wrote:

I know little about Morgans other than what I read and see on the
various forums. This is my third slabbed Morgan and I sold one of the
other two. In fact, I'm not sure what inspired me to bid on this one.
Well, actually I have an idea, but maybe I'll save that for another
post.

This is an 1883-O that looks like a VAM-4 to me. Yes, I have the 4th
edition VAM book that I bought for the Peace Dollar section. I'd like
your confirmation as well as any wild guesses on grade. My images are
not great and the tone is so thick and splotchy on the obverse that
it's hard to see the surface condition. In fact, with the coin in hand
it's hard to see. Any idea what kind of premium this VAM is bringing?

Warning: The first image is large.

I also included three shots of the mintmark and one shot of the date.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/RGT/1883-O.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/RGT/1883-OMM.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...1883-Odate.jpg


Yep, the 3rd image (right) of the mintmark looks like a Vam4. Cannot
tell grade other than it is MS; usual -O weak strike with an aspiration
to being better than average for -O. You're more likely to get $$$ for
the toning than the Vam4 on the coin, unless it turns out to go into a
MS65+ (66 would make it NGC registry top) holder. I see some contact
marks on the face and what seems to be some in the fields, so it's not
going to make 66 I'd think. I also have a hard time with this time of
toning (AT? NT? RT? NRA?). Send it to NGC w/ variety attribution... you
might get lucky. Or send it to PCGS. In either case I don't think
they're enforcing their drug policy, so it can go any which way.

Mike

Waht does 'VAM' stand for?

Randy Thompson wrote:
....
This is an 1883-O that looks like a VAM-4 to me. Yes, I have the 4th
edition VAM book that I bought for the Peace Dollar section. I'd like
your confirmation as well as any wild guesses on grade. My images are
not great and the tone is so thick and splotchy on the obverse that
it's hard to see the surface condition. In fact, with the coin in hand
it's hard to see. Any idea what kind of premium this VAM is bringing?...

Your coin does look like a VAM 4. The VAM is in the Top 100, but has a
popularity factor of only 7. The book value of the VAM goes for about
3X the common VAM. The popularity is not among the highest of the top
100, so generally it would take long to sell it at book value.

I am a poor grader of toned coins. I tend to grade them a point or two
lower than PCGS does. Your coin to me looks like it could be a MS63.
The hair and feather are weak, but this is an O-mint coin, so it is
expected. I can't see a lot of detail on the big coin, so can't tell if
it might earn a 64. At MS 64, you might expect $150 for the coin,
compared to $50 for a more common VAM. But again... it depends on the
market for VAM 4.

Anita

anti-spam wrote:
Waht does 'VAM' stand for?


Van Allen and Mallis, the authors of the "Encyclopedia of Morgan and
Peace Dollars".

Mike

wrote:


I am a poor grader of toned coins. I tend to grade them a point or two
lower than PCGS does. Your coin to me looks like it could be a MS63.
The hair and feather are weak, but this is an O-mint coin, so it is
expected. I can't see a lot of detail on the big coin, so can't tell if
it might earn a 64. At MS 64, you might expect $150 for the coin,
compared to $50 for a more common VAM. But again... it depends on the
market for VAM 4.

Anita


Current price review puts it at 2x tops. Market is saturated in the low
end, I don't even pick one up when I see one.

Mike

Mike wrote:
Current price review puts it at 2x tops. Market is saturated in the low
end, I don't even pick one up when I see one.

Good information, Mike. A Top 100 coin can be exciting to get, but many
of the coins don't sell for a premium in the real market. The
popularity factor is a useful indicator. If it is less than 8, the coin
has the title of Top 100, but little of the financial prestige that
comes with the title.

Anita

Thanks for the confirmation and information from both of you. Here is
the ebay auction where I won the coin.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=8413831771

As you can see it was graded MS65 in an older green PCI holder. This
one has the 14 digit serial number. I've lost the link to Eric
Tillery's web page on these but I believe these were mostly accurately
graded. This one actually has very few marks and the ones it does have
are light. I'd say the worst mark on the coin is in the field to the
right of the eagle. I have very little in-hand experience with Morgans
but I've seen tons of images and most MS65's I've seen looked more beat
up than this. The luster is good but muted a bit by the heavy tone. I
think it's fairly graded but wouldn't be too surprised if PCGS gave it
a 64, but it would be a high end 64 I think. I doubt it could go 66.

I'm not sure if I will sell it in it's current holder, cross it to NGC
or ANACS or just put it away for a while. Since I paid pretty much 64
money for it with no indication of the VAM I think I'll do alright
either way.

Randy Thompson wrote:
Thanks for the confirmation and information from both of you. Here is
the ebay auction where I won the coin.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=8413831771

As you can see it was graded MS65 in an older green PCI holder. This
one has the 14 digit serial number. I've lost the link to Eric
Tillery's web page on these but I believe these were mostly accurately
graded. This one actually has very few marks and the ones it does have
are light. I'd say the worst mark on the coin is in the field to the
right of the eagle. I have very little in-hand experience with Morgans
but I've seen tons of images and most MS65's I've seen looked more beat
up than this. The luster is good but muted a bit by the heavy tone. I
think it's fairly graded but wouldn't be too surprised if PCGS gave it
a 64, but it would be a high end 64 I think. I doubt it could go 66.

I'm not sure if I will sell it in it's current holder, cross it to NGC
or ANACS or just put it away for a while. Since I paid pretty much 64
money for it with no indication of the VAM I think I'll do alright
either way.

Yep.

Here ya go: http://www.k6az.com/pci/pci.htm

Mike

wrote:

Mike wrote:

Current price review puts it at 2x tops. Market is saturated in the low
end, I don't even pick one up when I see one.


Good information, Mike. A Top 100 coin can be exciting to get, but many
of the coins don't sell for a premium in the real market. The
popularity factor is a useful indicator. If it is less than 8, the coin
has the title of Top 100, but little of the financial prestige that
comes with the title.

Anita


Nah, spittling eagles sell for just about regular and they are PF9. Just
so happens to be that the drooling birdy VAM is common as dirt. To be
honest: if I was offered a nice MS65 with or without the die gouge
infront of the eagle's head I'd take the one without. Nicer coin.. VAM
my butt. If you look you'll see that capped dies sell for less than
regular -CC's these days. Value is in the coin, why would I buy one that
has an ugly feature on it? That's a PF 10. (really as it turns out a PF -4.)

Then there is a shortlist of PF7's etc that get very hard in MS or upper
MS and those are bigger draws. A 8TF vam5 is a PF8, but in 64 a pf10 and
in 65 a pf100.

That booklet is waaay outdated, good guidelines, but nothing to knock on
and proclaim it solid. Market has moved on since 97.

Mike