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Record Handling; Seeburg vs. Rockola, how about AMI or Wurlitzers?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 29th 03, 09:55 AM
KLR
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Default Record Handling; Seeburg vs. Rockola, how about AMI or Wurlitzers?

On 14 May 2003 04:22:27 GMT, (Jjmscf) wrote:


I'm moving and started prepping the jukeboxes for the
move; the records I removed from the Seeburgs look as good as the day
they were placed in the juke; not a scratch or blemish. But many
removed from the Rockola have surface scratches that look to be due to
the record transfer handling. Nothing deep enough to affect the sound
quality. Records from the Seeburgs were dust-free, but not those from
the Rockola.

I have three AMIs and a Wurlitzer 2100 to be restored and was
wondering how records in these machines fair. Any experiences you can
share will be appreciated. Thanks,

Matt W.

See my jukes at
http://home.att.net/~mwengler/jukeboxes.htm







There was some discussion on the jukebox list group recently under the
subject"What makes a juke valuable?"The AMI will probably be the same due to
similar record handling.The record sometimes seems to hit one side or the other
of the record separator when the gripper puts it back in the basket.No matter
how good you have it adjusted seems to happen on certain records sometimes.Also
the record is placed on a spinning turntable.Seems to place circular marks on
the Bside of frequently played records.

With the AMI - the adjustment is possible to have so that the record
doesnt touch the magazine guides when replaced. Even if it does
scrape - it will make a mark on the record - but it doesnt seem to
affect the sound any or make the record jump..

As for the turntable - the record is not "held" onto the spinning
turntable - but is actually held in the gripper slightly above the
turntable - and then dropped (about 1/32" or so) to the surface. The
same happens when picked up - it is raised quickly and replaced.

gluing felt around the rim of the turntable (pool table cloth offcuts
are usually used) will obviously help prevent damage here too, by
giving a soft surface for the record to rest on.

The same comments on the turntables and grippers would also apply to
rock-ola. Magazine rack is not as good though as I feel the gaps are
wider and the recards seem to "rattle" round a lot during rotation
which cant do them a lot of good. Also many rock-olas have a
stainless steel strip underneath the carousel to stop the records
falling out and they scrape along this strip (edge though) as the
thing turns. AMI uses a belt and pulley arrangement to stop this
happening..

The Wurlitzer may have accelerated
record wear if using the original cobra setup especially on stereo records as
it wasn't intended for stereo records.There has been much discussion about that
here and jukebox list .I would't think it would make the swirl marks as it is
placed in a gripper that only handles the center of the record like Seeburg and
the vinyl is not contacting anything but the needle during play and played
vertically like Seeburg but unlike Seeburg they are rattled around in that cage
so I don't know what the long term effect of that is.I'll find out when my
W2150 is done.Many other projects ahead of it.Exactly the same mechanism as
yours.I'm converting to a ceramic stereo cartridge.The records in my Rockola
are the same so I try to use reissues or oldies labels and save my originals
for a Seeburg.


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  #2  
Old June 29th 03, 07:28 PM
Philip Nasadowski
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In article ,
KLR wrote:

With the AMI - the adjustment is possible to have so that the record
doesnt touch the magazine guides when replaced.


This is tricky to very tricky on some machines, but really worth it. It
also helps ensure good loading and unloading of records....

As for the turntable - the record is not "held" onto the spinning
turntable - but is actually held in the gripper slightly above the
turntable - and then dropped (about 1/32" or so) to the surface.


Yep. Another adjustment that when it's right makes the machine nice on
records. It takes effort, but it's worth it.

The same happens when picked up - it is raised quickly and replaced.


Really quick on my F! I think I might put a resistor in there to slow
it down a tad - it's VERY fast right now...

The same comments on the turntables and grippers would also apply to
rock-ola. Magazine rack is not as good though as I feel the gaps are
wider and the recards seem to "rattle" round a lot during rotation
which cant do them a lot of good. Also many rock-olas have a
stainless steel strip underneath the carousel to stop the records
falling out and they scrape along this strip (edge though) as the
thing turns. AMI uses a belt and pulley arrangement to stop this
happening..


*misc grumblings about rock-olas deleted*

Actually, my 1493 slightly tilts the recors in the rack to promote
easier sliding as they go around. Needless to say, removing and
polishing the hell out of that strip is a good thing. In any case, it
gets the edge, which isn't a biggie. Older Rock-Olas used a rack belt,
and even older ones used some weird thinge.

Seeburgs are good on records - they push from the edge and clamp in the
center. Wurlitzers are like this too, actually, Wurlitzers I don't
think really touch the records anywhere else. This is the 50's type,
the stack types generally murder records if you don't use support discs,
the later type I have no idea.

78rpm AMIs converted to 45 don't touch the record anywhere but at the
edge where the ring grips them, and the center hole. A touchy setup,
but really cool once it's working right. You REALLY have to adjust the
hell out of them, but they do work amazingly well once they're adjusted
right.
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  #3  
Old June 30th 03, 02:58 AM
Don Lanway
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The same happens when picked up - it is raised quickly and replaced.

Really quick on my F! I think I might put a resistor in there to slow
it down a tad - it's VERY fast right now...


Hmm, the E had a 20 ohm resistor in series with the gripper motor.... not
sure about the F

Have you replaced the old selenium rectifier with a silicon bridge? This
tends to give you a bit more zip...

Cheers,

Don
Oregon Jukebox


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  #4  
Old June 30th 03, 04:34 AM
Philip Nasadowski
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In article ,
"Don Lanway" wrote:


Have you replaced the old selenium rectifier with a silicon bridge? This
tends to give you a bit more zip...


Oh yes it does.....

It's the fastest AMI in the east now! Seriously, this thing *flings*
the record out faster than you'd imagine. I know they were 'crisp' when
new, but this is a bit too fast

I'll probbably put another resistor in there to just hold the line down
a bit - it's around 35 - 40 V at times.

I'm not sure if you can still get the type of selenium used in these
things - I DO know as a fact (because we use them at work), that
seluniums ARE still made.
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  #5  
Old June 30th 03, 06:30 AM
Don Lanway
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"Philip Nasadowski" wrote
I'm not sure if you can still get the type of selenium used in these
things - I DO know as a fact (because we use them at work), that
seluniums ARE still made.



They have their place, like everything... it's my impression that they
handle spikes, overloads and heat better than silicon rectifiers... but I
could be wrong.

My Dad still has a Lincoln welder with a huge selenium stack in it... 100%
duty cycle, 400 amps, at about 30VDC... of course we never push it that
high... 1/4" 6018 rod runs smooth as butter though! Built in the fifities,
must be over five hundred pounds of copper and steel laminated core in that
baby, LOL!

Hmm, trip down memory lane... um.. oh yeah! Welded up a part for the old
man's wurlitzer with it!

Just to keep it kinda on topic...





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  #6  
Old July 1st 03, 04:19 PM
KLR
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On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 23:35:21 -0400, Philip Nasadowski
wrote:

In article kWPLa.60138$Fy6.17091@sccrnsc03,
"Don Lanway" wrote:

They have their place, like everything... it's my impression that they
handle spikes, overloads and heat better than silicon rectifiers... but I
could be wrong.


Beats me. We use them at work on MG set elevators (the few MGs we still
build, VVVF pretty much dominates traction elevators, at least at the
sub 350 fpm end). I don't know why, but we do. They were popular in TV
sets and other electronics in the 50's, and much hated because they're
smelly when they blow

Spikes and overloads? I don't know, though even by the early 60's, Si
technology was really getting into high power - the 1963 vintage Budd
built Silverliner electric commuter cars for the PRR used 3 bridges with
a six pack in each leg, 570V on each bridge, though the one fed by the
'A' winding had a pair of ignitrons (think really big 2050s in front
acting as 'voltage vales'. This was feeding 4 150hp motors at up to
1500 or so volts. Not bad...

Today's semiconductors are tough. I melted a sample surface mount
mosfet off it's heat sink while stress testing it, and the darn thing
STILL works. Litterally melted the solder and off it slid...

Anyway, Se types work great at low voltages and high currents, IIRC, and
ye, they take abuse. There weren't any other good rectifier diodes in
the 50's when DC motors styarted popping up in jukeboxes anyway.

Hey, while I'm thinking of it, when did AMI switch from a DC motor for
the gripper to an AC type that spun in one direction only?


Some of the 1950's jukes I have seen the AC motor used. J,K and
continental. Have also seen these with DC motors too. Whether these
were factory fitted - or swapped round by techs over the many many
years since new from later models - I don't know. What exact year I
don't know either.

As most of these models were made in overseas countries under licence
as well - and used locally produced motors in some cases which may
have been AC or DC - it makes the issue more unclear still as these
parts find their way swapped into US made ones during the life of the
machine as well .

Rowe went to full AC motor usage in mechanisms starting with the JAL -
200 - and has used them ever since.





 




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