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Groff Conklin disappointment
When I noticed Groff Conklin was being discussed
the other day, I recalled having seen a science fiction paperback and focusing on artificial intelligence edited by him. Going up into the Tower Room and then getting on a high ladder to hunt the book up, I finally spied it. The title is SCIENCE-FICTION THINKING MACHINES. It is a .25 cent Bantam Book (#1352) vintage 1955. Some readers may be interested to learn that the cover illustration was painted by the great Richard Powers, a fact which for many paperback collectors would add greatly to the book's allure. Anyway, lettering on the cover includes statements such as "Man or his inventions -- which will inherit the earth?" and "Here are 12 astonishing and prophetic stories..." and "Edited by Groff Conklin." Now, my reading the latter led me anticipate that there would be a piece of writing by Mr. Conklin included, perhaps an introduction of a few pages, or, if not that, then at least a brief paragraph or two introducing each story, the way some editors of anthologies favor. To my disappointment, I could find nothing at all written by Editor Conklin. Of course, I suppose I have no right to claim that I was cheated, because I must admit there is no implied warranty I know of to the effect that when one buys a book saying "Edited by," there must be something inside written by the editor. Even so, there usually IS something of that sort present, so I hope newsgroup readers will excuse my expression of disappointment. Yes, it is easy enough to find other books edited by Mr. Conklin, with passages which he himself wrote. However, that particular fact is not very satisfying, because I really wanted to see what Mr. Conklin would say, in 1955, about "thinking machines." Since no one questions the fact that Groff Conklin was a SF editor of considerable vision, I simply desired to evaluate -- looking back almost fifty years -- any written evidence of his powers of prediction regarding artificial intelligence. (Amittedly a reasonable case could be made that Editor Conklin showed that by his selections rather than his own words.) Also, one might ask, what does "edited by" really mean here? In the first place, the twelve stories Mr. Conklin included had already been published (and naturally edited before publication) in various SF periodicals between 1940 and 1954. Since many are written by distinguished SF authors such as Asimov, Sturgeon, Simak, Walter Miller and Eric Frank Russel, and some were no doubt edited by renowned editors such as John Campbell and H. L. Gold, it is unlikely that Mr. Conklin himself did further editing when these stories where chosen for the anthology. Nor can it be claimed that Mr. Conklin was discovering unknown work by any of the great writers, because, as I have already said, the stories by Asimov and the others mentioned had already appeared in well-known SF periodicals. As a result, it seems to me that "Selected by Groff Conklin" would be a bit more up-front as a cover blub than "Edited by Groff Conklin." Knowing as I do that Mr. Conklin was a gentleman of unimpeachable integrity and would probably not lower his standards "just for the money," my disappointment leaves me curious about the reasons behind the circumstances I have outlined above. Mr. Webster, would you like to step up to the rec.collecting books podium and clarify this matter for us? Mr. Palmer Room 314 (in the upstairs office) |
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"Bill Palmer" wrote in message
om... Since no one questions the fact that Groff Conklin was a SF editor of considerable vision, I simply desired to evaluate -- looking back almost fifty years -- any written evidence of his powers of prediction regarding artificial intelligence. (Amittedly a reasonable case could be made that Editor Conklin showed that by his selections rather than his own words.) Or that he showed his wisdom by refusing to make predictions! I have always been bemused by the fact that Asimov, who was bright and imaginative and well-informed, completely missed the possibility that technology would evolve toward millions of tiny computers rather than one humongous one. Once he got started on the Multivac series, of course, he could not easily reverse his premise without canceling his meal ticket. Still... Also, one might ask, what does "edited by" really mean here? I am moved to ask a different sort of question. How much say did Mr. Conklin have about the format of the book _or_ the copy on the wrap? Remember that in 1955 science fiction was considered pulp literature. Quite possibly the _real_ editor told him, "Give me 12 stories, 175 pages, with $xxx budget for rights; we'll pay you $200 and bill you as editor." Take it or leave it. You mentioned Mr. Conklin's integrity and your disappointment. You may be judging him by a standard that would have been unrealistic in 1955. If most readers expected "edited by" to mean no more than it meant in this case, his behavior did not represent a compromise of his integrity; just a business transaction, normal by the standards of the day. |
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On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:46:11 GMT, "Jonathan Sachs"
wrote: Or that he showed his wisdom by refusing to make predictions! Well, that wasn't what he was interested in doing. He wanted to put together anthologies that people would enjoy reading, not try to out-do Criswell. Science fiction isn't anout prediction anyhow, it's about speculation, which isn't the same thing (as I'm sure you already know). The only people who think it is about prediction are those who have absolutely no clue as to what sf is. I have always been bemused by the fact that Asimov, who was bright and imaginative and well-informed, completely missed the possibility that technology would evolve toward millions of tiny computers rather than one humongous one. Once he got started on the Multivac series, of course, he could not easily reverse his premise without canceling his meal ticket. Still... Hey, he had his spaceship pilots check their math using slide-rules, too, don't forget. NOBODY predicted PCs in those days. Hell, nobody really predicted solid-state electronics. I am moved to ask a different sort of question. How much say did Mr. Conklin have about the format of the book _or_ the copy on the wrap? Well, in the case of the original, probably a reasonable amount. I think he was perfectly content to let the publishers do the jacket/cover art (he was a big fan of Richard Powers, I'll point out), and he probably had some say on the jacket copy, but most of that stuff is put together by marketing. Could he have "forced" something he wanted on the publishers? Probably, but as well-regarded as he was, he almost certainly wouldn't have had to. He made a lot of money over the years for his various publishers, and they'd have been happy to let him have pretty much anything he wanted. Some of the paperback houses who reprinted his hardcovers did, in fact, allow him to do the abridging, but in the case of Bantam Books, they did it, taking out most of the lesser-known names. Damn shame, as those were some of the better stories. Remember that in 1955 science fiction was considered pulp literature. Quite possibly the _real_ editor told him, "Give me 12 stories, 175 pages, with $xxx budget for rights; we'll pay you $200 and bill you as editor." Take it or leave it. Nah. Don't forget that Conklin was a perennial library favorite. Kirkus always gave his books rave reviews, as did the other library journals, Any publisher who brought out a Conklin anthology (in hardcover, those were the days before public libraries commonly shelved paperbacks) could depend on thousands of sales automatically. His 1955 Gnome Press book, _Science Fiction Terror Tales_, sold out its print run of 5000 copies very quickly, and remains one of the rarest - if not THE rarest - Gnome title. He was the king in those days. Vanguard, who did the original hardcover edition of _Science Fiction Thinking Machines_, pretty much gave Conklin carte blanche when it came to the books he did for them, as did Crown Books. He did very well for them. Bantam - who knows? I don't know who was running the sf line it at the time, as Ian Ballantine had long since left, but they didn't do a terribly good job cutting the book and they never got another chance. |
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In article , Bud Webster
wrote: On 25 Aug 2004 14:32:09 -0700, (Bill Palmer) wrote: Now that I've given you (and anyone else interested enough to read it) a substantive reply in general, let me address a few specifics. Don't think I'm fooled at all by your contrived show of interest, I recognize bait when I see it. But there might actually be someone out there in RCBland who really IS interested in this, and so I'll answer for their benefit. I don't care whether you read it or not, frankly. I missed the original bait as I have cut WAY back on UseNet time & only open authors apt to interest or inform me. But having read your replies, I was suddenly inspired to mention that I was still a child when I was reading Groff Conklin anthololgies & for better or worse, he with Judy Merrill & the Davenports greatly helped shape my tastes to this day. I look forward to a chance to read your book about the gent. -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
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Bud Webster wrote in message . ..
On 25 Aug 2004 14:32:09 -0700, (Bill Palmer) wrote: Now that I've given you (and anyone else interested enough to read it) a substantive reply in general, let me address a few specifics. Don't think I'm fooled at all by your contrived show of interest, I recognize bait when I see it. But there might actually be someone out there in RCBland who really IS interested in this, and so I'll answer for their benefit. I don't care whether you read it or not, frankly. Why all the incivility, Mr. Webster? Since no one questions the fact that Groff Conklin was a SF editor of considerable vision, I simply desired to evaluate -- looking back almost fifty years -- any written evidence of his powers of prediction regarding artificial intelligence. (Amittedly a reasonable case could be made that Editor Conklin showed that by his selections rather than his own words.) Whoever told you that it was the editor's - ANY editor's - job to "predict" anything over and above what his readers might be willing to pay to read? No one told me such a silly thing. It may be my own fault, but you have entirely missed my context. Sometimes sf editors in their introductions DO toss out predictions of one sort or another, and I wanted to see if Mr. Conklin had done that. I did not mean to imply that was his job to do so. Nor, I will add, is it the job of the sf writer - ANY sf writer - to predict anything other than what his editor might be willing to buy. I am not so sure about that. There are many types of sf writers. For instance, Murray Leinster has won lasting fame for having written the first story which predicted something like PC's and the net. Of course, we could not expect him to get the names right in the mid-1940's, and his "PC"'s are called "logics." Further, he made the same understandable error that many writers continued to make ten or twenty years after Leinster wrote "A Logic Named Joe": he assumed that the "logics" would all be wired to some sort of super databank, or "tank," as he called it. So, perhaps he did not feel it was his job to predict, but he got closer to hitting the nail on the head regarding the net and PC'S than any other writer I am aware of did for many years after Leinster (real name Jenkins) wrote that amazing tale. Hugo Gernsback notwithstanding, the purpose of science fiction is the same as the purpose of any other kind of fiction - to entertain. Anything else that happens is gravy. I think you are stretching things. Yes, I suppose in one sense, we have to be entertained or we stop reading. Yet, when I think of pure entertainment, I think of writers such as E. R. Burroughs, E. E. Doc Smith, and E. C. Tubb. It seems to me that writers such as Samuel F. Delany, (the late) Walter Miller, and Thomas Disch would like to think they do a bit more than merely entertain. Nor can it be claimed that Mr. Conklin was discovering unknown work by any of the great writers, because, as I have already said, the stories by Asimov and the others mentioned had already appeared in well-known SF periodicals. Untrue; you don't know what you're talking about. In just this one specific book, of the nine heaviest hitters (Anderson, Asimov, Clement, Leiber, Miller, Russell, Simak, Sturgeon and Tenn) only Asimov's story had been previously reprinted, ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Now you are putting words in my mouth. I did not say any of them had been "reprinted." I said they had "already appeared in well-known periodicals," and I hope you will spare me from citing the entire copyright page to prove my point. All those publications were very well read by sf fans in those days, so it is safe to assume that if there were any surprises in the anthology in question regarding tdhe famous authors above, they were only surprises to readers who were -- in 1955 -- latecomers to the genre. and that was in his 1950 Gnome Press _I, Robot_ collection. In this case, Asimov revised the story especially for Conklin. The Leiber is, in fact, its first appearance, having been a script written specifically for television. Finding unknown treasure by well-established writers was, in point of fact, Conklin's greatest skill as an editor. Even in competition with the Healy and McComas _Adventures In Time and Space_, in which they had access to stories from the Campbell ASTOUNDING that Conklin didn't, he *still* managed to produce not only a bigger anthology (_The Best of Science Fiction_, Crown 1946), not only one as well-regarded as it still is and the staple of library shelves for decades after it was published, but he managed to get it into print *first.* (almost q.v. THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SCIENCE FICTION). None of the stories in the two books are repeated, but many of the same names are. In every case, Healy and McComas had first choice; that Conklin was able to find stories - nearly all of them reprinted there first - that were some of the best those authors had done, and which have been reprinted over and over. As a result, it seems to me that "Selected by Groff Conklin" would be a bit more up-front as a cover blub than "Edited by Groff Conklin." Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Editors do a lot more than re-writing stories for original publication and changing the titles. Quite frequently, they assemble anthologies and single-author collections. Don't try this crap with me again, Palmer. You're not good enough. It is hard for me to understand why you can't say your piece without bristling with incivility, Mr. Webster. My approach to Usenet is that posters should strive to stir up thinking. Are you suggesting that I have not done that, and that this forum would have been better off had I not written my original article and had not you and the other gentleman responded? Exactly WHAT is your beef, Mr. Newsgroup Churl? Mr. Palmer Room 314 |
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Bud Webster wrote in message . ..
On 25 Aug 2004 14:32:09 -0700, (Bill Palmer) wrote: [...] Snip of lots of interesting material that was just posted on this thread. Does this answer your question? Yes, it does. Basically, my wonderful little Bantam with the fascinating Pwoers cover is a "chop job." Well, maybe sometime I will run across the hardcover (it is not in the Tower Room) and then I can read Conklin's six page introduction that you mentioned. Mr. Palmer Room 314 |
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