Rowe JEL stuck in play cycle

I just picked a Rowe JEL. It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:
I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:
On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. I will have to find
the voltage source and see whats going on. Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:
On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:



On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)


I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:
On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:



On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.


Rob in NYC

On Dec 8, 12:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:
On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:



On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

That is true. On the later US imported models (seen from about 1972
on when the Australian AMI licensed manufacturer National-Ami closed
down) they managed to eliminate many of the micro switches greatly
reducing the parts count by adding diodes to the circuit.
I'm pretty sure that these models had a thinner nylon cam (blue
colour) and only one stack of cam switches rather than 2.

I remember that when overhauling all the 1960's machines we added a
diode across CSW 3 in order to eliminate the
"magazine skip" problem but didn't go any further with circuit
improvements as you did.

We did investigate and do groundwork on refitting these EM machines
with a solid state controller for reliability, but when the CD models
came out, used R-84's and upward dropped dramatically in price, and we
instead upgraded to these as they were a very robust and reliable
machine.

We still used a US made TI-2 and MM4 on location until the early
1990's and I don't recall ever having any mechanism
problems with either of them. They just worked and worked and worked
smoothly. The TI was actually on a high earning
location, and for some reason they didn't want to get rid of it.

On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:
On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:





On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

kreed,

I have looked in the manual and don't see a drawing that clearly
labels the cam switches. Am I missing something? Which one is cam
switch 3?

Thanks again,
Rob

On Dec 13, 10:15*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:
On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:



On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

kreed,

I have looked in the manual and don't see a drawing that clearly
labels the cam switches. *Am I missing something? *Which one is cam
switch 3?

Thanks again,
Rob


Inner plate - top rear switch. There are small numbers stamped on the
plate near each switch to identify it.

On Dec 13, 9:04*am, kreed wrote:
On Dec 13, 10:15*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:









On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked a Rowe JEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

kreed,

I have looked in the manual and don't see a drawing that clearly
labels the cam switches. *Am I missing something? *Which one is cam
switch 3?

Thanks again,
Rob

Inner plate - top rear switch. *There are small numbers stamped on the
plate near each switch to identify it.

kreed,

Thanks again !! I'll have to check it out and get some better
lighting setup in my garage.

On Dec 7 2010, 9:52*pm, Rob in NYC wrote:
On Dec 7, 9:25*pm, kreed wrote:









On Dec 7, 8:47*pm, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

On Dec 6, 7:50*pm, kreed wrote:

On Dec 7, 7:45*am, Rob Blakeslee wrote:

I just picked aRoweJEL. *It is in great condition, but when I picked
it up the owner powered it on and it appears to be stuck in a play
cycle. *I say that because the turntable is working and the gripper
arm is lowered. *I tried to move the tone arm simulating the record
being completed but nothing happened. *Nothing happens when I hit the
cancel button. *I have the manual and I'm thinking either the cam
switches are messed up or the reed switch is bad. *Any advice would be
greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob

*you can try shorting out the reed switch with a piece of wire and see
if that helps

also check the fuses, to see if there is 24v ac AND DC power to the
mechanism.

Kreed,

Thanks for the reply. *I did check the fuses with a meter and they are
all good. *I also tried a piece of wire across the reed switch to get
it to close and reverse the cycle, but nothing. *I will have to find
the voltage source and see what's going on. *Are there any fuses
mounted under the chassis?

Thanks again,
Rob

No, only in the power *supply - and one in the button bank (but
wouldn't be related to this problem).

What you need to look at is that the motor is an AC motor (unlike
models prior to this) and it only goes one way
The motor is simply stopped by a cam switch once it gets to the play
position, everything then sits totally inert until
the record finishes playing. *At this point, when you press cancel (or
reed sw closes) it activates the relay under the mechanism, via cam sw
3 and a 47 ohm resistor (that would be on the same plate as the
relay.)

I would check and replace cam sw 3, or check its alignment.
If you are going to keep this machine and want it reliable, I would
replace all the cam sws if they are original as they do tend to fail.

Cam sw 3 is notorious for causing problems with the magazine getting
to your selection and then "jumping" the magazine on to the next one.

Glad you got to these before I did. There is also a 100MFD cap w/10K
res. on the mech relay coil that has a carry-over function and can
cause this sort of problem.

See if you can manually turn the transfer motor to jog the micro
switches. *This was the fist model with the 1100series changer (also
the first jukebox I played in 1963) but as I found from later owning
one, they had a lot of improvement to make in the next few years.

Basic problem areas a

Micro switches
Flimsy keyboard slide contacts. They break inside the kbd assembly.
The use of nylon core bobbins in the toggle shifter coil which swell
up and jam the plunger.
Inadequate fusing..Seeburg anyone?
Flimsy record holder and a lack of guide finger to center the record
for return.
Poor quality chrome that peeled in just a few years.

I did a fair number of mods and eliminated 3 microswitches along with
using some later parts. Unfortunately, I didn't think anyone would
ever be interest in these machines and did not keep any notes.

Rob in NYC

Rob,

How can you manually turn the transfer motor? I've got a bent blade
on the control relay, but when I push the blade in the transfer motor
is getting 28v ac and the small gear on the motor is engaging but
nothing else is moving.

Thanks for you help!!

Rob