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Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 4th 12, 02:02 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

"Billns" wrote in message
...
On 4/3/2012 12:12 PM, Victor Manta wrote:
"Sir F.A. Rien" wrote in message
...
On 4/1/2012 11:29 PM, Victor Manta wrote:

http://www.pwmo.org/IPHLA/12-evaluation-websites.htm

Your feedback is welcomed.

Your floating menu bar is ok when scrolling down, but flies back up when
scrolling up. It is your choice, of course, but I would have left the menu
bar fixed at the top of the page and have it disappear as the reader
scrolls through your document.

Apparently nobody ever puts "return to top" links in a scrolling window
anymore.

Bill


Thanks for commenting.

The obvious disadvantage of putting a fixed menu bar in a scrolling windows
is that it disappears when scrolling. One has to scroll back to reach the
menu bar, operation that can be tedious for longer pages (and sometimes they
have to be long).

The "simple" idea is to create a fixed region, in my case on the top of all
pages and to put the navbar there. But how to do it in a simple way? The
simplest is to use frames but they have many, known disadvantages. Another
solution is to use SSI, but one has to get access to them on the server
which is another pain. I have tried something by using CSS but so far
unsuccessfully, because I couldn't run the navbar's JS code in it.

An easy solution is welcomed.

--
Victor Manta

Ads
  #12  
Old April 4th 12, 02:05 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Alyn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

Good morning Victor,

The content of the article seems to be right on, however, I feel that judging guidelines should be based on, and be similar to those used for print literature.

For the menu bar, I would propose that you widen the left margin of the page and have it "float" in the space that is created. That way you can maintain the variable position, with no impact on the text of the article being obscured by any scrolling.

Alyn
  #13  
Old April 4th 12, 10:46 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

"Alyn" wrote in message
news:20494852.3422.1333544734323.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbbdy9...
Good morning Victor,

The content of the article seems to be right on, however, I feel that
judging guidelines should be based on, and be similar to those used for
print literature.

For the menu bar, I would propose that you widen the left margin of the
page and have it "float" in the space that is created. That way you can
maintain the variable position, with no impact on the text of the article
being obscured by any scrolling.

Alyn


Hello Alyn and RCSD,

Many thanks for your comments. We talk here about my recent article:

http://www.pwmo.org/IPHLA/12-evaluation-websites.htm

There are similarities between philatelic websites and the printed
literature but there are also important differences, which make the former a
separate category from the later. One example of differences, among many
others, is the second subject of your posting, a problem that doesn't exist
for the printed literature.

A disadvantage of your proposal is that it creates a quite big block of text
that is moved on the left site of each page. Compare this with "my"
solution, where I "eat" just two line of text, in a region where a scrolled
text is rarely read.

Another disadvantage is that the implementation demands the creation of a
large fixed region on the left side, and then we return to the problem that
I tried to explain in my posting to Bill, in this thread.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  #14  
Old April 5th 12, 11:20 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Pierre COURTIADE[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

Victor Manta wrote :

A disadvantage of your proposal is that it creates a quite big block
of text that is moved on the left site of each page. Compare this
with "my" solution, where I "eat" just two line of text, in a region
where a scrolled text is rarely read.



Hello Victor,

You are right : Alyn's proposal would conduct to reduce too much the
useful text.

Nevertheless I agree with those saying that these scrolling stuffs
are *very* annoying.
As you say they hide two lines of the text, but IMHO this is not
the most important.
What is very boring is that the reader of your page feels offended by
this moving device which scrolls *independantly of his wishes*.
At least it is the case for me. I think that the *only* solution is
to leave this window *steady* at the top of your window.

--
All the best,
Amicalement
Pierre Courtiade


  #15  
Old April 5th 12, 01:54 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Alyn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

Good morning Victor,

I agree that there are fundamental differences between Web and traditional print media, but for consistency very few modifications to exhibiting regulations should be made for web media.

The American Philatelic Society in their April members newsletter has announced a website competition for their affiliates and chapters. More info can be found he http://stamps.org/CAC/cac_wsa.htm.

My monitor at home and work would not have a very large block of text at the left of the article. You could dedicate maybe 10% of the left side of the page. Alternately you could also use context menus (right click), but most of the scripts I have found for this functionality is for I.E. only.

  #16  
Old April 5th 12, 02:24 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

"Pierre COURTIADE" wrote in message
...
Victor Manta wrote :

A disadvantage of your proposal is that it creates a quite big block
of text that is moved on the left site of each page. Compare this
with "my" solution, where I "eat" just two line of text, in a region
where a scrolled text is rarely read.



Hello Victor,

You are right : Alyn's proposal would conduct to reduce too much the
useful text.

Nevertheless I agree with those saying that these scrolling stuffs
are *very* annoying.
As you say they hide two lines of the text, but IMHO this is not
the most important.
What is very boring is that the reader of your page feels offended by this
moving device which scrolls *independantly of his wishes*.
At least it is the case for me. I think that the *only* solution is
to leave this window *steady* at the top of your window.

Hi Pierre and RCSD,

The problem with Alyn's proposal is not that it takes too much space on the
screen, today's screens being quite large. The problem is a rather ergonomic
one, the movement of large blocks of text being per se somehow disturbing.

The wishes of users are very different, and often contradictory. Those who
really feel "offended" by a particular implementation are, IMHO, in the
situation that I describe in what follows. When I was about 30 years old,
and I was sitting in a crowded bus, I noticed a lady, in her late 50th, who
was standing near me. Naturally, I stood up and offered her my place but, to
my big surprise, she took an offended look and admonished me, by shouting
that she is not so old to sit. This was my "reward" for trying to be
useful...

Well, I don't want to be stubborn either, and for this reason if several
readers nevertheless let me know that they feel offended by the movement of
this navbar too, then I will glue it with two hinges to the top of the
scrolling pages (which, btw, is the easiest way).

http://www.pwmo.org/IPHLA/12-evaluation-websites.htm

If any others (Alyn did it already) were commenting also on the contents of
the page, which I'm trying to improve, then I would be even more grateful.
Many TIA.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



  #17  
Old April 5th 12, 04:02 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

"Alyn" wrote in message
news:18124635.1390.1333630475570.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@vbiz13...
Good morning Victor,

I agree that there are fundamental differences between Web and traditional
print media, but for consistency very few modifications to exhibiting
regulations should be made for web media.

The American Philatelic Society in their April members newsletter has
announced a website competition for their affiliates and chapters. More
info can be found he http://stamps.org/CAC/cac_wsa.htm.

My monitor at home and work would not have a very large block of text at
the left of the article. You could dedicate maybe 10% of the left side of
the page. Alternately you could also use context menus (right click), but
most of the scripts I have found for this functionality is for I.E. only.

Hello Alyn and RCSD,

Well, provisional modifications were probably accepted already 15 years ago
by the Literature Commission of FIP, when they started the philatelic
websites evaluations. As I presented on my page:

http://www.pwmo.org/IPHLA/12-evaluation-websites.htm

after four edition they stopped the evaluations, stipulating that the
differences between digital and printed media are too important, and for
this reason the Special Regulations for the Evaluation of Philatelic
Literature Exhibits at F.I.P. Exhibitions don't include digital media.

Thanks for the info and for the link to the APS website competition.
Unfortunately, it is a very limited one, which is the result of the facts
that they look for themselves (perfectly justifiable under actual
circumstances) and that the participation is free (being actually covered by
the membership fees).

As I have written to Pierre, I see no problem with the 10% of the space
taken off on the side. One of my problems is a rather an esthetical one.
Another is technical, that of creating a fixed region for the menu, as I
already mentioned. If I had a solution, I had preferred to put the menu on
top.

I have considered the context menus but I have rejected them because usually
the users don't read the initial instructions and immediately look for the
menu. If it isn't under their eyes, they navigate away from the site. It is
also possible that users like Pierre could be offended by something that
they don't expect.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



  #18  
Old April 5th 12, 04:27 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Pierre COURTIADE[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

Victor Manta wrote :

Hi Pierre and RCSD,

The problem with Alyn's proposal is not that it takes too much space
on the screen, today's screens being quite large. The problem is a
rather ergonomic one, the movement of large blocks of text being per
se somehow disturbing.
The wishes of users are very different, and often contradictory.
Those who really feel "offended" by a particular implementation are,
IMHO, in the situation that I describe in what follows. When I was
about 30 years old, and I was sitting in a crowded bus, I noticed a
lady, in her late 50th, who was standing near me. Naturally, I stood
up and offered her my place but, to my big surprise, she took an
offended look and admonished me, by shouting that she is not so old
to sit. This was my "reward" for trying to be useful...


:-)))


Well, I don't want to be stubborn either, and for this reason if
several readers nevertheless let me know that they feel offended by
the movement of this navbar too, then I will glue it with two hinges
to the top of the scrolling pages (which, btw, is the easiest way).

http://www.pwmo.org/IPHLA/12-evaluation-websites.htm



Personnally I am still disturbed by the fact that, when one scroll the
useful window, the navbar disappeares and comes back at each
movement of the main window.
Why not transforming the navbar into an upper window (height :
one line) and render it never ever moving or disappearing or
blinking or ... what else
???
:-)

And having the main window below it and this one moving.

May be this is technically too complicated ? I am not enough
skilled to know this.

If any others (Alyn did it already) were commenting also on the
contents of the page, which I'm trying to improve, then I would be
even more grateful. Many TIA.


I will do this as well but a little bit later, Victor. And preferably on
FRP as I will be able to express myself more easily (as it will be in
French :-)

Cheers,
--
Bien amicalement,
Pierre

  #19  
Old April 5th 12, 07:19 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,256
Default Floating menu. Was: Evaluation of Philatelic Websites Revisited

"Pierre COURTIADE" wrote in message
...
Victor Manta wrote :

Hi Pierre and RCSD,

The problem with Alyn's proposal is not that it takes too much space
on the screen, today's screens being quite large. The problem is a
rather ergonomic one, the movement of large blocks of text being per
se somehow disturbing.
The wishes of users are very different, and often contradictory.
Those who really feel "offended" by a particular implementation are,
IMHO, in the situation that I describe in what follows. When I was
about 30 years old, and I was sitting in a crowded bus, I noticed a
lady, in her late 50th, who was standing near me. Naturally, I stood
up and offered her my place but, to my big surprise, she took an
offended look and admonished me, by shouting that she is not so old
to sit. This was my "reward" for trying to be useful...


:-)))

Well, I don't want to be stubborn either, and for this reason if
several readers nevertheless let me know that they feel offended by
the movement of this navbar too, then I will glue it with two hinges
to the top of the scrolling pages (which, btw, is the easiest way).

http://www.pwmo.org/IPHLA/12-evaluation-websites.htm



Personnally I am still disturbed by the fact that, when one scroll the
useful window, the navbar disappeares and comes back at each
movement of the main window.
Why not transforming the navbar into an upper window (height :
one line) and render it never ever moving or disappearing or
blinking or ... what else
???
:-)

Here is what I have written when answering to Bill, in this thread:

The "simple" idea is to create a fixed region, in my case on the top of all
pages and to put the navbar there. But how to do it in a simple way? The
simplest is to use frames but they have many, known disadvantages. Another
solution is to use SSI, but one has to get access to them on the server
which is another pain. I have tried something by using CSS but so far
unsuccessfully, because I couldn't run the navbar's JS code in it.

An easy solution is welcomed.

If any others (Alyn did it already) were commenting also on the
contents of the page, which I'm trying to improve, then I would be
even more grateful. Many TIA.


I will do this as well but a little bit later, Victor. And preferably on
FRP as I will be able to express myself more easily (as it will be in
French :-)

Thanks in advance, Pierre. You know that I love French too.

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philatelic Webmasters Organization: http://pwmo.org/
Art on Stamps: http://artonstamps.org/
Romania by Stamps: http://marci-postale.com/
Communism on Stamps: http://reds-on.postalstamps.biz/
Spanish North Africa: http://www.sna-on.postalstamps.biz/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 




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