Accuracy problems

I make a catalog list of my mini collections and prefer them to be
accurate. I find this is not possible.
Date of issue quite often is different between Scott, WNS, Postbeeld
and the issueing country. I use the country date for the new issues
but issues older than a year are not available.
I can live with a day or two difference, more than that I don't like.
Then there is the problem of a stamp failing to come out on the
announced date if issue, how does one know?
BTW, I speak about the definitives, not comemoratives, Like the French
Mariannes, Machins too.
Accurate color description is also a very big PITA to me.
Brown and Chocolate may be the same but search for a brown stamp and
you will not find it if it is listed as chocolate.
I think Scott is a bit unreliable.
I think WNS does not list all the issues for a given year and I am
uncertain about the date.
Postbeeld is pretty good AFIK.

Ralphael, the OLD one

Ralphael1 schrieb:
I make a catalog list of my mini collections and prefer them to be
accurate. I find this is not possible.
Date of issue quite often is different between Scott, WNS, Postbeeld
and the issueing country. I use the country date for the new issues
but issues older than a year are not available.
I can live with a day or two difference, more than that I don't like.
Then there is the problem of a stamp failing to come out on the
announced date if issue, how does one know?
BTW, I speak about the definitives, not comemoratives, Like the French
Mariannes, Machins too.
Accurate color description is also a very big PITA to me.
Brown and Chocolate may be the same but search for a brown stamp and
you will not find it if it is listed as chocolate.
I think Scott is a bit unreliable.
I think WNS does not list all the issues for a given year and I am
uncertain about the date.
Postbeeld is pretty good AFIK.

Ralphael, the OLD one

Hello Ralphael,

also a official date of the first issue given by the government may not
be correct in any case. There are also pre-firstday cancellations for
some stamps known, where the post office staff ignored the official
announcements and acted on their own authority. It´s known for issues of
the former German Democratic Republic, for example.

Have a look at the German high-inflation issues, especially the
overprinted stamps. You will not find a relibable source for the exact
days of first use for the Nevember 1923 issues.

Our work is always a "as long as noone else will know it better" work,
and that is ok. life is change, standstill means death :-).

So let us have some secrets and undissolved problems for further
generations :-)

Kind regards

Gerhard

"Ralphael1" wrote in message
...
I make a catalog list of my mini collections and prefer them to be
accurate. I find this is not possible.
Date of issue quite often is different between Scott, WNS, Postbeeld
and the issueing country. I use the country date for the new issues
but issues older than a year are not available.
I can live with a day or two difference, more than that I don't like.

Let's start from the beginning. What is a date of issue for a stamp?

It is often an arbitrary date, set by a official committee that decides all
the stamps issuing dates for one given year.

When are the stamps actually issued?

Surely not when they are printed.
Very often not when the PO starts by selling them (because the collectors
should get the chance to cancel them First Day, isn't it?).
And it's not the day when the first ones are cancelled, because they can be
pre-cancelled (see above).

Therefore, IMHO, to know the _year_ when a stamp was "issued" is sufficient
to me, because then I can easily find it in a catalogue. Even if it sounds
strange, this idea is so general that it applies even to the not issued
stamps ;-)

--
Victor Manta, PWO, AIJP

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On Jun 28, 12:54*pm, Gerhard Reichert wrote:
Ralphael1 schrieb:





I make a catalog list of my mini collections and prefer them to be
accurate. I find this is not possible.
Date of issue quite often is different between Scott, WNS, Postbeeld
and the issueing country. I use the country date for the new issues
but issues older than a year are not available.
I can live with a day or two difference, more than that I don't like.
Then there is the problem of a stamp failing to come out on the
announced date if issue, how does one know?
BTW, I speak about the definitives, not comemoratives, Like the French
Mariannes, Machins too.
Accurate color description is also a very big PITA to me.
Brown and Chocolate may be the same but search for a brown stamp and
you will not find it if it is listed as chocolate.
I think Scott is a bit unreliable.
I think WNS does not list all the issues for a given year and I am
uncertain about the date.
Postbeeld is pretty good AFIK.

Ralphael, the OLD one

Hello Ralphael,

also a official date of the first issue given by the government may not
be correct in any case. There are also pre-firstday cancellations for
some stamps known, where the post office staff ignored the official
announcements and acted on their own authority. It´s known for issues of
the former German Democratic Republic, for example.

Have a look at the German high-inflation issues, especially the
overprinted stamps. You will not find a relibable source for the exact
days of first use for the Nevember 1923 issues.

Our work is always a "as long as noone else will know it better" work,
and that is ok. life is change, standstill means death :-).

So let us have some secrets and undissolved problems for further
generations :-)

Kind regards

Gerhard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thanks Gerhard, I feel better now...
Don't ask, don't tell is my motto..or Its for me to know and you to
find out.

RtOo

On Jun 28, 1:13*pm, "Victor Manta" wrote:
"Ralphael1" wrote in message

...

I make a catalog list of my mini collections and prefer them to be
accurate. I find this is not possible.
Date of issue quite often is different between Scott, WNS, Postbeeld
and the issueing country. I use the country date for the new issues
but issues older than a year are not available.
I can live with a day or two difference, more than that I don't like.

Let's start from the beginning. What is a date of issue for a stamp?

It is often an arbitrary date, set by a official committee that decides all
the stamps issuing dates for one given year.

When are the stamps actually issued?

Surely not when they are printed.
Very often not when the PO starts by selling them (because the collectors
should get the chance to cancel them First Day, isn't it?).
And it's not the day when the first ones are cancelled, because they can be
pre-cancelled (see above).

Therefore, IMHO, to know the _year_ when a stamp was "issued" is sufficient
to me, because then I can easily find it in a catalogue. Even if it sounds
strange, this idea is so general that it applies even to the not issued
stamps ;-)

I suppose this is the exact reason Scott jusr lists the year in many ,
many cases.

RtOo

Ralphael1 wrote:
I make a catalog list of my mini collections and prefer them to be
accurate. I find this is not possible.
Date of issue quite often is different between Scott, WNS, Postbeeld
and the issueing country. I use the country date for the new issues
but issues older than a year are not available.
I can live with a day or two difference, more than that I don't like.
Then there is the problem of a stamp failing to come out on the
announced date if issue, how does one know?
BTW, I speak about the definitives, not comemoratives, Like the French
Mariannes, Machins too.
Accurate color description is also a very big PITA to me.
Brown and Chocolate may be the same but search for a brown stamp and
you will not find it if it is listed as chocolate.
I think Scott is a bit unreliable.
I think WNS does not list all the issues for a given year and I am
uncertain about the date.
Postbeeld is pretty good AFIK.

Ralphael, the OLD one

Certainly for older stamps I'm happy to know the year the stamp was
issued, not the exact date.

I agree that the color descriptions leave a lot to be desired, but I'm
not sure what the answer is. There's a stamp color chart available on
the web but it's more confusing than helpful.

Bill

see inline comments

Bill

Sir F. A. Rien wrote:

The 'answer' is a form of a spectrophotometer and 'adjustment' to delete all
the old fanciful colour names.

This is a pretty expensive 'answer.' Hach's cheapest spectrophotometer
costs $2443. Also, stamp colors fade in sunlight or in the case of
orange or yellow stamps are subject to sulfurization.


Unfortunately, the 'old guard' is fighting this tooth and hole. It's in the
realm of the mystique as was plating imperfs a couple decades back.

I can understand why catalog companies wouldn't want to change all the
color descriptions for their stamps.

Another method may come from "Fourier transform infradred spectroscopy" -
see sciencedirect.com - I don't have the direct URL, but the paper went on
line 10 October, 2005.

I searched and found over 7,000 references to "Fourier transform
infrared spectroscopy" at sciencedirect.com. A search for "10 October
2005" gave me 197 articles. And a combined search of these two terms
gave me an error message.

In the UK the Head Office decrees on what date stamps are available
for sale.However Humans being Humans pre-releases in error while not
common are certainly not exceedingly rare, many issues seem to "get
out" in small quantities at one office at least ( although one should
be careful -it is not unknown for clerks not to rotate the date stamp
until several items at least have been franked first thing in the
morning - particularly if imbibing the amber nectar the previous
evening!!)

Malcolm





On Jul 2, 5:59*pm, Bill Sharpe wrote:
see inline comments

Bill

Sir F. A. Rien wrote:

The 'answer' is a form of a spectrophotometer and 'adjustment' to delete all
the old fanciful colour names.

This is a pretty expensive 'answer.' Hach's cheapest spectrophotometer
costs $2443. Also, stamp colors fade in sunlight or in the case of
orange or yellow stamps are subject to sulfurization.



Unfortunately, the 'old guard' is fighting this tooth and hole. It's in the
realm of the mystique as was plating imperfs a couple decades back.

I can understand why catalog companies wouldn't want to change all the
color descriptions for their stamps.



Another method may come from "Fourier transform infradred spectroscopy" -
see sciencedirect.com - I don't have the direct URL, but the paper went on
line 10 October, 2005.

I searched and found over 7,000 references to "Fourier transform
infrared spectroscopy" at sciencedirect.com. A search for "10 October
2005" gave me 197 articles. And a combined search of these two terms
gave me an error message.

It is to do with the date of issue of the stamp

Malcolm