A very sad "What walked into the shop today" story.

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...
Grading is subjective. Its all in the eye of the beholder, so to try to
criminalize overgrading would be futile. The only way that could happen is
if some computerized standard and method of grading could universally be
used. Otherwise, its a matter of opinion and what the buyer knows and
chooses.
B


Not completely. If the standard grading guides all agree that an EF-40
Indian cent must boldly show all letters of LIBERTY, it is hardly
"subjective" to call an Indian EF-40 when the headband shows no letters at
all. It's called dishonesty.

James

"note.boy" wrote in message
...
The ridiculous coin grading system used in the USA does, unfortunately,
give the less ethical plenty of scope to rip off the less knowledgeable
coin buyer.

I don't think the grading system is so ridiculous. What is ridiculous is
that people throw money at things they don't understand.

James

Wes Chormicle wrote:

During the past couple of weeks I've had a few phone conversation with an
elderly man who was thinking of selling his collection of Morgan dollars and
Gold coins. He faxed me a list of about 80 coins that he had bought over
the last year, along with what he paid for them (close to $225,000). I
started to have a real sick feeling about this and asked him if he would
mind bringing in a few of the coins so I could look at them and give him a
better idea of what we could do for him.

He brought in 8 Morgan dollars, all graded by NTC. Here is what they are
and what he paid:

1879 S MS-67 $750
1880 S MS-66 $600
1881 O MS-66 $1800
1884 O MS-66 $800
1899 S MS-64 $900
1901 O MS-66 $1500
1921 MS-66 $1200
1921 S MS-66 $13000

I knew that at best, this was not going to be pretty, and at worst it might
be a coronary in the store. I asked him if he could leave them with me for
a couple of hours while I brought up recent auction history and price
guides.

When he returned, I explained that he was sold coins using the PCGS price
list for coins certified by a "3rd tier" grading company. I had printed out
recent eBay auctions with some of the exact coins in NTC holders and showed
him that the prices realized were 10% of what he had paid.

When I looked at these coins, every one of them was at least 3 points, and
the MS-67 5 points higher then the coin really was. The color literally
drained from his face. He then proceeded to tell me that he had brought
these from a telemarketing firm. Here was an 80 year old man who had just
lost $200,000+ to some scumbag telemarketer.

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Was it these guys?

http://tinyurl.com/4qn26

JAM

Well said. There are too many new services. I ran across one company
(NNC) a few days ago that charges based on the cost of the coin. The
more expensive the coin value that is declared for insurance purpose,
the higher the charge to grade the coin.

Umm, all the grading services do it this way.


I saw this as a potential
conflict of interest. I wonder if there is anyone policing all the
grading companies.

No

JAM

Brian Maguire wrote:

I ask, what good is the ANA if they are not screaming to the FTC and
congress to put a stop to this madness?

Brian


The ANA is an association of like minded people not a police force. It's up to the victims to initiate a legal action.

JAM

"note.boy" wrote:

The ridiculous coin grading system used in the USA does, unfortunately,
give the less ethical plenty of scope to rip off the less knowledgeable
coin buyer.

As long as (alleged) tiny grade improvements equal a leap in value many
more will be ripped off I'm afraid.

I have posted more than once that it makes no sense to pay silly money
for a tiny (alleged) grade improvement.

Will there ever be a collector uprising against the MS madness?

It is a very sad story indeed. Billy

Can I assume that you are not a fan of the set registry promotions by the two biggest grading services?

JAM

I got this email back from the ANA, is you client possibly a victim and
could qualify for at least partial restitution?

Thank you for contacting the American Numismatic Association.

On February 3rd, New York's Attorney General's office announced in a press
release, the guilty pleas of two Long Island men for running a coin boiler
room
scam that defrauded investors, many of them senior citizens. Paul M. Blaney
and Robert Snyder operated U.S. Rare Coin Brokers, Inc. and Historic
Collectibles, Inc. The two used telemarketers who identified themselves as
brokers. It is estimated that over 1,000 people around the country
purchased
coins from the defendants. A restitution fund of over $600,000 has been
established and will be administered by the Suffolk County Department of
Probate. Below you will find a link to the Attorney General's official
press release.

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...feb03a_05.html


If the elderly gentleman you spoke of purchased his coins through one of
these companies he might be eligible for a part of the restitution fund.

If you want to forward my contact information to this gentleman I have other
resources which may be of assistance to him even if he is not a member of
the ANA.

Sincerely,
Susan Procell
Consumer Protection Coordinator
American Numismatic Association
818 North Cascade Avenue
Colorado Springs, CO 80903

In article ,
Moses Horwitz "Moses wrote:


Well said. There are too many new services. I ran across one company
(NNC) a few days ago that charges based on the cost of the coin. The
more expensive the coin value that is declared for insurance purpose,
the higher the charge to grade the coin.

Umm, all the grading services do it this way.

That's not true. The higher the estimated coin value, the higher the
insurance/registered mail charge. The charge for grading the coin
remains the same.

In article ,
Scot Kamins wrote:

In article ,
Moses Horwitz "Moses wrote:


Well said. There are too many new services. I ran across one company
(NNC) a few days ago that charges based on the cost of the coin. The
more expensive the coin value that is declared for insurance purpose,
the higher the charge to grade the coin.

Umm, all the grading services do it this way.

That's not true. The higher the estimated coin value, the higher the
insurance/registered mail charge. The charge for grading the coin
remains the same.

OOps. Should have spokedn in terms of the major graders - or at least it
was like that last year with PCGS and NGC, the last time I had coins
graded for sale on FeeBay.

Brian Oakley wrote:
1 Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

Ezekial 23:20

--
Bob