CAC - Boondoggle or valuable service???

On Jul 4, 4:27*pm, "note.boy" wrote:
"Ira" wrote in message

...
On Jul 4, 9:30 am, Voltronicus wrote:

On Jul 4, 12:09 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:

I've heard plenty of macho statements of the type "I wouldn't pay a cent
extra for a slab with a CAC sticker" but how would anyone know, other
than
to have access to "before" and "after" prices, which is mightily
unlikely?

Well, let me say that a CAC sticker is not a selling point for me.
I don't know if CAC even rates coins from ICCS, which is the main TPG
I use/seek.
I buy the coin, not the slab, whether CAC "approved" or not.
CAC is yet another example of hucksterism polluting numismatics.

Well,well, "Voltronicus," aka RF or Robert Finnan, the "RF" nom de
plume too sullied for you now?

Anyway, I digress.

From what I've seen at shows and from speaking to major dealers, THe
CAC sticker is helping items sell that might otherwise languish in a
relatively flat market.

Bill Krummel wrote that he paid under Graysheet for some classsic
commems with the sticker in place, but it should be known that in the
present market, most classic commems are selling for discounts off
Graysheet bid (except for really scarce ones).

In the rare coin Type market, they seem to bring a premium over non-
stickered coins, sometimes a significant premium. Yet, overall, I'd
say from personal experience that the CAC sticker will facilitate a
sale that might not occur otherwise.

Ira

Suckers. *Billy

Billy,

If you look in most showcases in a bourse and look at the PCGS and
certified coins on the inventory, you'll discover, upon close
inspection of individual lots, that the vast majority of the coins
could be characterized as low end for the grade, if not overgraded.
What CAC does is sticker the coins that are of such quality that they
can be sold to other CAC dealers sight unseen for well over Bluesheet
levels. That's impressive and very important.

Many dealers have complained that only 10% of what they send to CAC
comes back stickered, and therefore the service is a complete waste of
money. A certain dealer only buys low end coins from other dealers and
resells to dealers who buy only bargain priced slabs. Their customers
don't know the difference!

So no, Billy, buyers of CAC coins are not sucker's. Far from
it. I was a skeptic at first, but I think its a worthwhile service
with lots of value. CAC only certified NGC and PCGS graded coins and
only pre 1935 with only abfewvexceptipns, such as 1942/1 dimes, 1955
DDO cents and the like.
Ira

On Jul 4, 6:39*pm, Ira wrote:
What CAC does is sticker the coins that are of such quality that they
can be sold to other CAC dealers sight unseen for well over Bluesheet
levels. That's impressive and very important.

Wasn't that the original intent of the TPGs, Ira-weh?
CAC is just the start of a slippery slope.

On Jul 4, 7:04*pm, Voltronicus wrote:
On Jul 4, 6:39*pm, Ira wrote:

What CAC does is sticker the coins that are of such quality that they
can be sold to other CAC dealers sight unseen for well over Bluesheet
levels. That's impressive and very important.

Wasn't that the original intent of the TPGs, Ira-weh?
CAC is just the start of a slippery slope.


Finnan, are you REALLY as dense as you portray yourself? There is no
slippery slope here. The constant lament from so many dealers is that
there is hardly anything good out there to buy. That's because most of
the finest coins for the grade are in the collections of long time
collectors and the boarders. The boarders can be either dealers or
speculators. The most mediocre coins are in dealer inventories at
shows. If the dealer specializes in quality coins for the grade then
he has a real problem finding inventory to resell.

Rick Snow, President of Eagle Eye Rare Coins puts his Photoseal
certificate as well as a laminated photo showing the Indian Head or
Flying Eagle cent that he deems worthy of the grade. Fewbin the
marketplace merit the Photoseal. The CAC sticker expands to all series
except modern coins.

All coins reviewed by CAC are personally reviewed by John Albanese, co
founder of PCGS and founder of NGC. He's a highly experienced
numismatist and knows what a nice coin for the grade looks like. He's
no
longer involved with NGC but he's been disheartened by the. Supply of
low end coins on the bourse a d in national coin auctions. Many
dealers won't support CAC because they deal in lower quality coins for
the grade.
They like things just as they are.

Ira

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:04:23 -0700 (PDT)
Voltronicus wrote:

On Jul 4, 6:39Â*pm, Ira wrote:
What CAC does is sticker the coins that are of such quality that
they can be sold to other CAC dealers sight unseen for well over
Bluesheet levels. That's impressive and very important.

Wasn't that the original intent of the TPGs, Ira-weh?
CAC is just the start of a slippery slope.

Nope, rf-weigh. The slippery slope began long ago.

jeff

On Jul 4, 8:14*pm, Ira wrote:
On Jul 4, 7:04*pm, Voltronicus wrote:

On Jul 4, 6:39*pm, Ira wrote:

What CAC does is sticker the coins that are of such quality that they
can be sold to other CAC dealers sight unseen for well over Bluesheet
levels. That's impressive and very important.

Wasn't that the original intent of the TPGs, Ira-weh?
CAC is just the start of a slippery slope.

Finnan, are you REALLY as dense as you portray yourself? There is no
slippery slope here. The constant lament from so many dealers is that
there is hardly anything good out there to buy. That's because most of
the finest coins for the grade are in the collections of long time
collectors and the boarders. The boarders can *be either dealers or
speculators. The most mediocre coins are in dealer inventories at
shows. If the dealer specializes in quality coins for the grade then
he has a real problem finding inventory to resell.

Rick Snow, President of Eagle Eye Rare *Coins puts his Photoseal
certificate as well as a laminated photo showing the Indian Head or
Flying Eagle cent that he deems worthy of the grade. *Fewbin the
marketplace merit the Photoseal. The CAC sticker expands to all series
except modern coins.

All coins reviewed by CAC are personally reviewed by John Albanese, co
founder of PCGS and founder of NGC. He's a highly experienced
numismatist and knows what a nice coin for the grade looks like. He's
no
longer involved with NGC but he's been disheartened by the. Supply of
low end coins on the bourse a d in national coin auctions. Many
dealers won't support CAC because they deal in lower quality coins for
the grade.
They like things just as they are.

Ira

Correction: the iPhone changes the word hoarders to "boarders."
missed it.

Ira

On Jul 4, 8:14*pm, Ira wrote:

Finnan, are you REALLY as dense as you portray yourself?

Stein, are you REALLY as greedy, avaricious, self-serving and grasping
as you portray yourself?

On Jul 4, 8:14*pm, Ira wrote:
The constant lament from so many dealers is that
there is hardly anything good out there to buy. That's because most of
the finest coins for the grade are in the collections of long time
collectors and the boarders. The boarders can *be either dealers or
speculators. The most mediocre coins are in dealer inventories at
shows. If the dealer specializes in quality coins for the grade then
he has a real problem finding inventory to resell.

So tell us Stein, how will CAC bring out the high quality coins that
you allege are in the hands of hoarders and long time collectors?
Oh, that's right, you can't because it won't.
Every opinion you offer is tainted by your insane greed and over-
inflated sense of entitlement.
Go back to selling swamp land to widows and orphans.

Third party graded coins sold on Teletrade , bullet auctions, and
other online or mail bid venues tend to trade in a narrower price
range than the same types of coins sold at traditional auctions.
That's because, when collectors can study the coins in pre-auction
viewing in person, the bids are based on the coin, not the plastic.
It's easy to find coins from the same service, with the same grade,
sell for twice as much as their so-called "fungible" equivalents. The
reason is the premium placed on quality. CAC is a way to recognize
that extra quality, and the value it represents. Contrary to claims
that CAC is only to make dealers rich, it's an imortant tool to
maximize value on premium coins when sold by collectors. My concern
is that the service was launched before online verification was
available. It is certainly easier to have a fake CAC hologram sticker
made than a fake slab.

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES www.frankcoins.com
http://myworld.ebay.com/frankcoins Texas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC Full Time SInce 1991

On Jul 4, 10:29*pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
Third party graded coins sold on Teletrade , bullet auctions, and
other online or mail bid venues tend to trade in a narrower price
range than the same types of coins sold at traditional auctions.
That's because, when collectors can study the coins in pre-auction
viewing in person, the bids are based on the coin, not the plastic.
It's easy to find coins from the same service, with the same grade,
sell for twice as much as their so-called "fungible" equivalents. *The
reason is the premium placed on quality. *CAC is a way to recognize
that extra quality, and the value it represents. Contrary to claims
that CAC is only to make dealers rich, it's an imortant tool to
maximize value on premium coins when sold by collectors. *My concern
is that the service was launched before online verification was
available. *It is certainly easier to have a fake CAC hologram sticker
made than a fake slab.

--
RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES *http://www.frankcoins.comhttp://mywo...rankcoinsTexas Auction License
11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association,
Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC Full Time SInce 1991

Well, why not have a second sticker to verify that the CAC sticker is
worth a crap??? And why not have a third sticker to verify that the
second sticker that verifies the CAC sticker is worth a crap??? And
so-on and so-forth. And finally, since the hoi polloi isn't qualified
and all these numismatic gods are - why not have a sticker that
completely covers the obverse and reverse of the coin in the slab, so
we will have to take a bunch of horse-**** artists' word that the coin
is in there at all???

Eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder, not in the judgement of a
bunch of lounge-lizards looking for another gimmick. RF is correct,
it is a slippery slope and it will all undermine the coin market
clusterf**k in the end. And it will be better the sooner that
happens.

Really sorry to see you back, Frank.

oly

On Jul 5, 12:12*am, oly wrote:

Well, why not have a second sticker to verify that the CAC sticker is
worth a crap??? And why not have a third sticker to verify that the
second sticker that verifies the CAC sticker is worth a crap??? And
so-on and so-forth. And finally, since the hoi polloi isn't qualified
and all these numismatic gods are - why not have a sticker that
completely covers the obverse and reverse of the coin in the slab, so
we will have to take a bunch of horse-**** artists' word that the coin
is in there at all???

Really sorry to see you back, Frank.

Sorry you feel so negative, Bob.

I want my customers and clients to have the best quality coins
possible.

But how many collectors can fly to a major auction and examine the
lots in
person? The average collector bidding out of a catalog or on the
internet usually
ends up winning only the coins that the dealers and advanced
collectors deemed
inferior. The CAC sticker levels the playing field significantly by
having an opinion
of an expert like John Albanese judge a coin solid or premium for the
grade.