Smart people stop using cent coins

On 04 Nov 2003 02:59:35 GMT, Jim wrote:

George D errs with....

If you buy 3 items ending in .x9 you have a price ending with a .x7 that
would
end up rounding down.

Unless I missed 'more' modern math, that should be rounding UP, no?

Not if you're rounding to the nearest nickel.

"George D" wrote in message
...
Dr. Richard L. Hall wrote:
"Phil DeMayo" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Richard L. Hall" wrote:


Oh! really! As a test, I visited my local Rite Aid to see what their

prices

are. Almost every price ended in a 9 with few exceptions. Of course,
if
there wasn't a cent coin, all these prices would be rounded up.

You are correct if that item was the only item purchased and was not

taxable.

More stupid arguments. You don't really believe that if the cent is
eliminated that a merchant is going to leave his prices at say $.99.
He's
going to round it up to a dollar. Pay 4 1/2 % sales tax on two items as
we
do here in northern Virginia, that makes it $2.09. Round it to $2.10.
So
you've paid an extra 1 1/2%.


I know you'll get more rounding up than down. There is very little
incentive for a merchant to round down.

Oh really, how do you "know" this?

Here in the US the "incentive" is contained in the proposed legislation.

The

merchants would be required to both round up and down.


"Almost every price ended in a 9 with few exceptions." Now which part
of
this didn't you understand? Almost every price will be rounded up. If
you
don't have any prices at $0.96 or $0.97, you don't have to round them
down.
You're only talking about the final tax. I'm talking about the items
themselves.

I was in a local restaurant. All prices ended in $ x.x9. For kicks, I
stopped in the local McDonalds. All prices ended in $.x9. Now the
local
supermarket was somewhat different since some things are purchased by
the
pound so you could get some prices at .x6 or .x7 when you don't get a
full
pound and other things are 2 for or 3 for. But that's about the only
place
where you're going to find rounding down. And a significant number of
prices also ended in $.x9. To be sure, some ended in $.x0 or $.x5. But
I
didn't see any that ended in $.x6 or $.x2 that would cause rounding
down.
Of course, you also have the costs incurred by the merchant in changing
all
the prices to reflect that he is no longer using the unit. Do you
really
think the merchant is going to swallow that cost? More likely, he would
pass
that off to the customer. I think you're dreaming if you think any
savings
is going to accrue to the customer.



The .x9 has nothing with cost or sales price it has to do with marketing.
Even on a major
purchase like a car $26,799 sounds and looks like substantially less money
than $26,800 on
small purchases $.99 sounds like less than $1.00. That will not change
EVER.

Another stupid argument. It has nothing to do with marketing. If the cent
is eliminated. You're not going to have a unit. There will be no $.99
prices, period. What merchant do you know that will price something at $.99
and then tell you it's really a dollar because he can't make change.
Someone who wants to lose a lot of business or wants to argue with his
customers, no doubt.


It is accumulation of items and the added tax that will determine the
final rounding. If
you buy 3 items ending in .x9 you have a price ending with a .x7 that
would end up
rounding down.

Read my lips, ready. You won't have any prices at $.x9 anything because the
mechant won't be able to make change if you buy one of the item. Now, why is
that so difficult to understand.

"Dr. Richard L. Hall" wrote:

SNIP

Another stupid argument. It has nothing to do with marketing. If the cent
is eliminated. You're not going to have a unit. There will be no $.99
prices, period. What merchant do you know that will price something at $.99
and then tell you it's really a dollar because he can't make change.
Someone who wants to lose a lot of business or wants to argue with his
customers, no doubt.

Might be the very same merchant that sells something at the price of
$1.39 9/10 OR the same place that pieces an item at 3 for a dollar.
What do you pay for just one? $0.34

SNIP

Read my lips, ready. You won't have any prices at $.x9 anything because the
mechant won't be able to make change if you buy one of the item. Now, why is
that so difficult to understand.

It is hard for me to understand because of the fact that I believe
they will be rounding up and down.

I guess that is why my personal property taxes is so screwed up in
the pricing? If they would go by what you say, they would stop
pricing it by the 1/10 cent & 1/100 cent and just go straight up to
a nickel?

=================================================
Roscoe Ebay- 1Wheeler,
ICQ- 876749, Yahoo Messenger- Wheeler72512

"We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out."
Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962.

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 03:31:56 GMT, Dr. Richard L. Hall
wrote:


"George D" wrote in message
...




The .x9 has nothing with cost or sales price it has to do with
marketing.
Even on a major
purchase like a car $26,799 sounds and looks like substantially less
money
than $26,800 on
small purchases $.99 sounds like less than $1.00. That will not change
EVER.

Another stupid argument. It has nothing to do with marketing. If the
cent
is eliminated. You're not going to have a unit. There will be no $.99
prices, period. What merchant do you know that will price something at
$.99
and then tell you it's really a dollar because he can't make change.
Someone who wants to lose a lot of business or wants to argue with his
customers, no doubt.


Odd, the gas station said it would sell me 1 gallon $1.439 but then
they rounded up the price to $1.44.


It is accumulation of items and the added tax that will determine the
final rounding. If
you buy 3 items ending in .x9 you have a price ending with a .x7 that
would end up
rounding down.

Read my lips, ready. You won't have any prices at $.x9 anything because
the
mechant won't be able to make change if you buy one of the item. Now, why
is
that so difficult to understand.

Umm, they would just round the final price up or down, pretty simple.

"Dr. Richard L. Hall" wrote in message
ink.net...

"George D" wrote in message
...
Dr. Richard L. Hall wrote:
"Phil DeMayo" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Richard L. Hall" wrote:


Oh! really! As a test, I visited my local Rite Aid to see what their

prices

are. Almost every price ended in a 9 with few exceptions. Of
course,
if
there wasn't a cent coin, all these prices would be rounded up.

You are correct if that item was the only item purchased and was not

taxable.

More stupid arguments. You don't really believe that if the cent is
eliminated that a merchant is going to leave his prices at say $.99.
He's
going to round it up to a dollar. Pay 4 1/2 % sales tax on two items
as
we
do here in northern Virginia, that makes it $2.09. Round it to $2.10.
So
you've paid an extra 1 1/2%.


I know you'll get more rounding up than down. There is very little
incentive for a merchant to round down.

Oh really, how do you "know" this?

Here in the US the "incentive" is contained in the proposed
legislation.

The

merchants would be required to both round up and down.


"Almost every price ended in a 9 with few exceptions." Now which part
of
this didn't you understand? Almost every price will be rounded up.
If
you
don't have any prices at $0.96 or $0.97, you don't have to round them
down.
You're only talking about the final tax. I'm talking about the items
themselves.

I was in a local restaurant. All prices ended in $ x.x9. For kicks,
I
stopped in the local McDonalds. All prices ended in $.x9. Now the
local
supermarket was somewhat different since some things are purchased by
the
pound so you could get some prices at .x6 or .x7 when you don't get a
full
pound and other things are 2 for or 3 for. But that's about the only
place
where you're going to find rounding down. And a significant number of
prices also ended in $.x9. To be sure, some ended in $.x0 or $.x5.
But
I
didn't see any that ended in $.x6 or $.x2 that would cause rounding
down.
Of course, you also have the costs incurred by the merchant in
changing
all
the prices to reflect that he is no longer using the unit. Do you
really
think the merchant is going to swallow that cost? More likely, he
would
pass
that off to the customer. I think you're dreaming if you think any
savings
is going to accrue to the customer.



The .x9 has nothing with cost or sales price it has to do with
marketing.
Even on a major
purchase like a car $26,799 sounds and looks like substantially less
money
than $26,800 on
small purchases $.99 sounds like less than $1.00. That will not change
EVER.

Another stupid argument. It has nothing to do with marketing.



Did someone say 'stupid argument'? Hey, let me in. Price points is
nothing but marketing, afaik. Dairy Queen, Inc. advises ending all prices
in nines, since studies show that will motivate a customer to buy. So, if I
determine I need 81 cents on an item, DQ advises me to mark it at 79 cents.
Why not 89 cents? Well, the competition keeps me from gouging, and I am
very sensitive to the competition's prices, as are all other DQ operators I
have heard from.


If the cent is eliminated. You're not going to have a unit. There will
be no $.99
prices, period. What merchant do you know that will price something at
$.99
and then tell you it's really a dollar because he can't make change.
Someone who wants to lose a lot of business or wants to argue with his
customers, no doubt.

If the cent is eliminated, I will continue to price my items at .79, $1.99,
$2.19 rather than .81, 2.05, or 2.15. When the customer buys the 79 cent
item, I'll ring it up, the register will add 7 per cent sales tax and round
for me and I'll ask for 85 cents. If he buys the $1.99 item, I'll ring it
up, the register will add 7 per cent sales tax and round for me and I'll ask
for $2.15. Hmmm, every example I used works perfectly, the customer pays
the same whether we have the current system or a centless system. That was
not what I intended. Well, there are plenty of examples I could find where
the two systems would result in a difference to the customer of a few cents,
take my word for it. The point is, I will, as always, worry about my profit
margins at the end of the day, end of the week, end of the month, end of the
quarter, end of the year, but never at the end of an individual transaction.
If my profit margins are too slim, I don't automatically and gleefully
adjust prices (darn competition), but study all my areas of cost (labor,
utilities, cleaning supplies, insurance, and about 30 more categories) and
if they are trim and in line, then I look apprehensively ( darn competition)
to adjust my prices. That is the way I do it with cents in the system and
that is the way I would do it with no cents in the system.






It is accumulation of items and the added tax that will determine the
final rounding. If
you buy 3 items ending in .x9 you have a price ending with a .x7 that
would end up
rounding down.

Read my lips, ready. You won't have any prices at $.x9 anything because
the
mechant won't be able to make change if you buy one of the item. Now, why
is
that so difficult to understand.

You can buy one item from me. Well, Dr. Hall, after you get your free
Blizzard (standing offer to all rcc'ers, not a bribe or carrot), you can
buy one item from me. Say I have something you want to try for $1.79. I
will ring it up, the register will add .071 per cent sales tax ( heh, heh.
With a calculator, I found a price point to use as an example), subtotal is
$1.92, the cash register shows a rounded amount of $1.90, which is what you
pay. In real life, you don't give a hoot about the two cents you save from
not using cents in the system. In real life, I don't care about the two
cents in that transaction (especially if you come back twice a week to take
advantage of the two cent savings), unless at the end of the month it shows
I have consistently lost 1% of my profit because of rounding, then I adjust
prices to get my profit margin back. Statistically, I should break even and
not have to make any price adjustment.

Qualifier to my comments; If my comments have no bearing on the subject of
this thread, then it at least fits the "stupid argument" descriptor. Bill

"Dr. Richard L. Hall" wrote:

More stupid arguments.

Bite me

You don't really believe that if the cent is
eliminated that a merchant is going to leave his prices at say $.99. He's
going to round it up to a dollar. Pay 4 1/2 % sales tax on two items as we
do here in northern Virginia, that makes it $2.09. Round it to $2.10. So
you've paid an extra 1 1/2%.

Well, isn't that swell for you people in northern Virginia. Here in Connecticut
there will be no incentive for merchants to round all their 99 cent items up to
$1.00. Our state sales tax is 6 cents making a 99 cent taxable purchase total
$1.05. If the merchant were to raise the price of these items to $1.00 the
total would be $1.06...to be rounded down to $1.05. He'd have to eat the
penny....buy two and it would cost him two cents. He wouldn't be able to reap
any benefit from rounding unless you bought 3 or 4 of the item.

Elimination of the cent and madated rounding to the nearest nickel will not do
away with the $x.x9 pricing structure....anywhere.



++++++++++
Phil DeMayo - always here for my fellow Stooge
When bidding online always sit on your helmet
Just say NO to counterfeits

On 04 Nov 2003 ulsion (Phil DeMayo) wrote:

Well, isn't that swell for you people in northern Virginia. Here in Connecticut
there will be no incentive for merchants to round all their 99 cent items up to
$1.00.

Are you aware that many distributors and wholesalers
price items in mills, even on high dollar items?

The simple fact is that rounding is too complicated
in the real world, anything that forces a clerk to think or
a customer to accept any price but what is marked is just
too much confusion.

This agenda by the cent haters serves no purpose
at all, it only has two arguments in its favor, assuming it
costs more than a cent to make the cent, and that many
people are too wealthy to bother with cents.

This rounding idea is loaded with problems,
far more than would be balanced by any of the benefits.

The cost to the government would be unacceptable,
what it boils down to is that to save the small fraction of
a cent that it is claimed the government loses by minting
new cents, the government will have to buy back every
cent ever made, and lose not just on the newly minted
cents, but on all cents.

The mint would have to lay off half the employees,
idle half the presses, contract for trucks to haul cents
back to the smelters, and take a beating on the smelting.

To save WHAT? Mr. Richman from receiving
3 cents in change? The mint from losing .0001 cents?

I thought the liberals wanted to help the working
man, and this phony liberal idea would cause many people
to lose their jobs.
And it would accomplish absolutely nothing except
causing customers and merchants to argue and get mad.

If a few more stores get hooked up like the Kroger
self checkout, I won't need cents, the readout says
"approved" as fast as I can swipe the card through the
slot, and I don't have to handle any change.

The idea is flawed because it removes the very
utility the cent was designed for, to make exact change,
and it sure is a liberal idea to ignore a little thing like
exact change.

Is there anything in the proposed legislation
about _requiring_ rounding? I haven't seen
anything like that, and that kind of wording would
surely make the law unconstitutional because it
would be a clear interference and restriction
in commerce and trade.

Joe Fischer

The change to the euro was less trouble than the USA discontinuing the
cent will be. :-)

Hello USA Government, ditch the cent and save $millions in government
spending. Billy


Alan & Erin Williams wrote:

Jim wrote:

George D errs with....

If you buy 3 items ending in .x9 you have a price ending with a .x7 that would
end up
rounding down.

Unless I missed 'more' modern math, that should be rounding UP, no?


I am counting every post that explains or argues the principle of
rounding and/or the correct rounding in a specific situation as an
example of why the American Public will never accept this proposal. ;-)

Alan
'but if it costs (x) do I pay (x) + or - 2¢?'

From previous discussions of this topic it's my understanding that each
transaction, i.e. store visit, will be rounded and NOT each item, one
transaction could be dozens of items on a visit to the food store.

Items WILL still be priced ending in 99 cents.

If the total is for example over $50 the amount of rounding up will be a
very low percentage of the total, and as has been said some transactions
will be rounded down, this would be required by law of course.

If several European countries can introduce the euro, a big job, why
can't the USA Government drop the one cent coin? A small job in
comparison. Billy


"Dr. Richard L. Hall" wrote:

"George D" wrote in message
...
Dr. Richard L. Hall wrote:
"Phil DeMayo" wrote in message
...

"Dr. Richard L. Hall" wrote:


Oh! really! As a test, I visited my local Rite Aid to see what their

prices

are. Almost every price ended in a 9 with few exceptions. Of course,
if
there wasn't a cent coin, all these prices would be rounded up.

You are correct if that item was the only item purchased and was not

taxable.

More stupid arguments. You don't really believe that if the cent is
eliminated that a merchant is going to leave his prices at say $.99.
He's
going to round it up to a dollar. Pay 4 1/2 % sales tax on two items as
we
do here in northern Virginia, that makes it $2.09. Round it to $2.10.
So
you've paid an extra 1 1/2%.


I know you'll get more rounding up than down. There is very little
incentive for a merchant to round down.

Oh really, how do you "know" this?

Here in the US the "incentive" is contained in the proposed legislation.

The

merchants would be required to both round up and down.


"Almost every price ended in a 9 with few exceptions." Now which part
of
this didn't you understand? Almost every price will be rounded up. If
you
don't have any prices at $0.96 or $0.97, you don't have to round them
down.
You're only talking about the final tax. I'm talking about the items
themselves.

I was in a local restaurant. All prices ended in $ x.x9. For kicks, I
stopped in the local McDonalds. All prices ended in $.x9. Now the
local
supermarket was somewhat different since some things are purchased by
the
pound so you could get some prices at .x6 or .x7 when you don't get a
full
pound and other things are 2 for or 3 for. But that's about the only
place
where you're going to find rounding down. And a significant number of
prices also ended in $.x9. To be sure, some ended in $.x0 or $.x5. But
I
didn't see any that ended in $.x6 or $.x2 that would cause rounding
down.
Of course, you also have the costs incurred by the merchant in changing
all
the prices to reflect that he is no longer using the unit. Do you
really
think the merchant is going to swallow that cost? More likely, he would
pass
that off to the customer. I think you're dreaming if you think any
savings
is going to accrue to the customer.



The .x9 has nothing with cost or sales price it has to do with marketing.
Even on a major
purchase like a car $26,799 sounds and looks like substantially less money
than $26,800 on
small purchases $.99 sounds like less than $1.00. That will not change
EVER.

Another stupid argument. It has nothing to do with marketing. If the cent
is eliminated. You're not going to have a unit. There will be no $.99
prices, period. What merchant do you know that will price something at $.99
and then tell you it's really a dollar because he can't make change.
Someone who wants to lose a lot of business or wants to argue with his
customers, no doubt.


It is accumulation of items and the added tax that will determine the
final rounding. If
you buy 3 items ending in .x9 you have a price ending with a .x7 that
would end up
rounding down.

Read my lips, ready. You won't have any prices at $.x9 anything because the
mechant won't be able to make change if you buy one of the item. Now, why is
that so difficult to understand.

I messed up on a couple of things. I am now correcting them before
it gets pointed out to me. :-)


Wheeler wrote:
SNIP

Might be the very same merchant that sells something at the price of
$1.39 9/10

That should have been at the price of $1.39 9/100

SNIP

pricing it by the 1/10 cent & 1/100 cent

This should have been 1/100 cent and 1/1000 cent

Now that I have this corrected, I can go to the V.A. I will get all
of my flames Wednesday night. ;-)


=================================================
Roscoe Wheeler2000 AT centurytel.net Ebay- 1Wheeler,
ICQ- 876749, Yahoo Messenger- Wheeler72512

"We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out."
Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962.