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Don't change the subject line, please!



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 2nd 03, 01:52 AM
Bob Ingraham
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

From: J. A. Mc.
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:46:25 -0700
Subject: Don't change the subject line, please!


One of the reasons I go to shows, etc. is for the chance to chat and
be 'personal'. Just concentrating on the physical stamp can get dull.


Agreed. If *my* stamps are the subject, discussions of perfs, watermarks,
shades, etc. are incredibly interesting. If it's *your* stamp, well, my eyes
start rolling pretty quickly!

I appreciate the little side turns that some of the posts take - so
it's the 'flip side' for me, so to speak.


Agreed! I feel that I've come to know the most frequent posters to this
newsgroup not as a result of their philatelic knowledge, but from their
frequent asides. In the stamps shops I visit fairly regularly, the
conversation is only partially about stamps and postal history. More often
it's about the weather, movies, holidays, politics, disasters, etc. -- the
stuff that every day is largely made up of. Stamps are, after all, the
frosting on the cake of life! :^) (Some cake. There are large dollops of
really yucky stuff in the recipe!)

When the temperature is 116* (45+), any little breeze is welcome! G


I have two questions: Where do you live? Are you nuts!? :^)

Bob

Anyway, thanks a lot for your feedback!



Ads
  #12  
Old August 2nd 03, 08:43 AM
Toke Nørby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Victor Manta" wrote:

.....snip SNA
So you propose to renounce them, so that you (or anyone else) has to:

1. Open the posting
2. Read it
3. Eventually pay for that connection time
4. Observe that the posting it is not stamp related, or has another subject
5. Close it, usually disappointed


Isn't that obvious? If I have an opinion about something I have to
know what I'm talking about. ("usually disappointed" is your meaning -
not necessarily correct).

Why deleting them? I'm asking, because I just read what interests me,
without deleting anything. Anyway, after a time all postings are removed.


Not using my newsreader: First all headers only are downloaded. Then I
download the body of postings I would like to read to my computer and
keep them until I delete them. I then just delete the headers of
postings I don't want to read - and they won't show up again next time
I go online (so I save a lot of download time downloading only headers
at first). I have many 5-6 year old postings on MY computer. (There is
plenty of space on my HD)

BTW, when something is hard to understand, why nonetheless give an opinion
on it? ..snip


That's not hard to me to understand

But - are you really serious when you mean that your SNA-halløj
(sorry, Danish word) is funny/humour? I will defend your right to
post/upload etc. SNA-pages until my death (as long as you don't
violate copy rights and keep the secrecy of mails) but that does not
mean that I have to think it's humour.

Just to mention that an explanation for some of humor is given in the
ng's FAQ and on a website.


It's good to know that I can read somewhere examples of humour so I
can see what is humour and what's not! (I couldn't resist! :-)

J. A. Mc. wrote:

It -is- considered netiquette to alter the header when the discussion
strays off the original topic.


(Toke
Oh, yes of course - but just adding one or two words which don't
exactly shows what the new thread is about is annoying (to me :-)


I agree, supposedly (by the netiquette site I first read) the header
form should be:
Yyyy yyyyy (was - Xxxxx xxxxx xxx)


Exactly!
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/
  #13  
Old August 2nd 03, 12:55 PM
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:


BTW, when something is hard to understand, why nonetheless give an

opinion
on it? ..snip (VM.)


That's not hard to me to understand (T.N.)


Previously you wrote: 'The "homour" for this group is for me hard to
understand (read: it's not funny to me and in my opinion pure waste of time
to create/read it - sorry). '

I have made the mistake of taking the words of a juror, member of
international FIP stamps contests, too seriously and too "ad literam".
Obviously, I was wrong with this. It is not that you don't understand this
humor (what you say in the introduction), it is that you just don't like it,
which supposes a preliminary understanding! Of course, nobody (even I can
help, because nobody can make everybody happy.

But - are you really serious when you mean that your SNA-halløj
(sorry, Danish word) is funny/humour? I will defend your right to
post/upload etc. SNA-pages until my death (as long as you don't
violate copy rights and keep the secrecy of mails) but that does not
mean that I have to think it's humour. (T.N.)


I seriously mean that many of humor-related or OT posting here are funny
and/or somehow interesting. As boB has written, we cannot permanently speak
only about stamps, and many of us, the stamp collectors, feel a natural need
to sometimes "socialize".

I don't know what "your SNA-halløj" means, so I cannot comment on it. I
consider that the usage of a language that is understandable by the
person(s) for whom it is written (and not for just a few "insiders") is an
elementary courtesy.

I don't need a defense on something that is my right, like on uploading SNA
pages or other ones, and I have no intention to ask somebody's permission
for doing that.

You have the right to think anything you wish on them, but I can only hope
that you will have the honesty of *recusing* yourself as a FIP juror when
I'll present the SNA site (if and when it will be again possibly) to the
next FIP websites' contest.

After the group has refused your proposal referring to the subject lines of
postings, you have tried a first diversion by attacking without obvious
reasons SNA's humor. It was obviously a detour for nothing, because this
subject was largely discussed on this NG, and a solution that is acceptable
for most people here was found already a long time ago.

In your last posting you bring strange insinuations (or maybe personal
attacks, no idea): "as long as you don't violate copy rights and keep the
secrecy of mails". I'm not sure if you are aware that this sounds like a
serious accusation, because if you are aware, then I have to consider this
as a somehow strange behavior. I don't know exactly what you have in mind,
so I can only wonder whether this belongs to RCSD or actually into personal
mail (in case that you feel somehow personally concerned).

The good question is: have your digressions something to do with your
(refused) demand of changing the subject line accordingly to your wishes, by
neglecting the Netiquette? IMO, there could be a relationship, eventually
explained by a personal frustration. There is nothing better to do than to
simply accept what others say, and not to digress each time toward things
that you personally dislike on this NG or at some of its participants.

Finally, if your intention is to bring unnecessary troubles into this
generally peaceful and polite NG, then this is your choice, and your
personal responsibility too.

Victor Manta

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

....snip SNA
So you propose to renounce them, so that you (or anyone else) has to:

1. Open the posting
2. Read it
3. Eventually pay for that connection time
4. Observe that the posting it is not stamp related, or has another

subject
5. Close it, usually disappointed


Isn't that obvious? If I have an opinion about something I have to
know what I'm talking about. ("usually disappointed" is your meaning -
not necessarily correct).

Why deleting them? I'm asking, because I just read what interests me,
without deleting anything. Anyway, after a time all postings are removed.


Not using my newsreader: First all headers only are downloaded. Then I
download the body of postings I would like to read to my computer and
keep them until I delete them. I then just delete the headers of
postings I don't want to read - and they won't show up again next time
I go online (so I save a lot of download time downloading only headers
at first). I have many 5-6 year old postings on MY computer. (There is
plenty of space on my HD)

BTW, when something is hard to understand, why nonetheless give an

opinion
on it? ..snip


That's not hard to me to understand

But - are you really serious when you mean that your SNA-halløj
(sorry, Danish word) is funny/humour? I will defend your right to
post/upload etc. SNA-pages until my death (as long as you don't
violate copy rights and keep the secrecy of mails) but that does not
mean that I have to think it's humour.

Just to mention that an explanation for some of humor is given in the
ng's FAQ and on a website.


It's good to know that I can read somewhere examples of humour so I
can see what is humour and what's not! (I couldn't resist! :-)

J. A. Mc. wrote:

It -is- considered netiquette to alter the header when the discussion
strays off the original topic.


(Toke
Oh, yes of course - but just adding one or two words which don't
exactly shows what the new thread is about is annoying (to me :-)


I agree, supposedly (by the netiquette site I first read) the header
form should be:
Yyyy yyyyy (was - Xxxxx xxxxx xxx)


Exactly!
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/


  #14  
Old August 2nd 03, 04:16 PM
J. A. Mc.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 00:52:21 GMT, Bob Ingraham
found these unused words floating about:

From: J. A. Mc.
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2003 15:46:25 -0700
Subject: Don't change the subject line, please!


One of the reasons I go to shows, etc. is for the chance to chat and
be 'personal'. Just concentrating on the physical stamp can get dull.


Agreed. If *my* stamps are the subject, discussions of perfs, watermarks,
shades, etc. are incredibly interesting. If it's *your* stamp, well, my eyes
start rolling pretty quickly!

I appreciate the little side turns that some of the posts take - so
it's the 'flip side' for me, so to speak.


Agreed! I feel that I've come to know the most frequent posters to this
newsgroup not as a result of their philatelic knowledge, but from their
frequent asides. In the stamps shops I visit fairly regularly, the
conversation is only partially about stamps and postal history. More often
it's about the weather, movies, holidays, politics, disasters, etc. -- the
stuff that every day is largely made up of. Stamps are, after all, the
frosting on the cake of life! :^) (Some cake. There are large dollops of
really yucky stuff in the recipe!)

When the temperature is 116* (45+), any little breeze is welcome! G


I have two questions: Where do you live? Are you nuts!? :^)

Mojave Desert ... Yes ... (any more questions? G)

  #15  
Old August 2nd 03, 04:40 PM
Toke Nørby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Victor Manta" wrote:

..... snip

Wow! I won't say that I wasn't warned :-)
I have "digged a hole - jumped into it" and are doing other things
that have to be done right now. I'll probably be back. ("halløj" reads
"stuff").
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/
  #16  
Old August 3rd 03, 08:56 AM
Douglas MYALL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If ever there was a posting which deserved an alteration to its subject
line it is this one. It is an agreed courtesy in this NG to include SNA
in a posting on that subject. Or is it considered that humour begins, and
ends, with SNA topics?

Douglas

Victor Manta wrote in article
...
"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:


BTW, when something is hard to understand, why nonetheless give an

opinion
on it? ..snip (VM.)


That's not hard to me to understand (T.N.)


Previously you wrote: 'The "homour" for this group is for me hard to
understand (read: it's not funny to me and in my opinion pure waste of

time
to create/read it - sorry). '

I have made the mistake of taking the words of a juror, member of
international FIP stamps contests, too seriously and too "ad literam".
Obviously, I was wrong with this. It is not that you don't understand

this
humor (what you say in the introduction), it is that you just don't like

it,
which supposes a preliminary understanding! Of course, nobody (even I

can
help, because nobody can make everybody happy.

But - are you really serious when you mean that your SNA-halløj
(sorry, Danish word) is funny/humour? I will defend your right to
post/upload etc. SNA-pages until my death (as long as you don't
violate copy rights and keep the secrecy of mails) but that does not
mean that I have to think it's humour. (T.N.)


I seriously mean that many of humor-related or OT posting here are funny
and/or somehow interesting. As boB has written, we cannot permanently

speak
only about stamps, and many of us, the stamp collectors, feel a natural

need
to sometimes "socialize".

I don't know what "your SNA-halløj" means, so I cannot comment on it. I
consider that the usage of a language that is understandable by the
person(s) for whom it is written (and not for just a few "insiders") is

an
elementary courtesy.

I don't need a defense on something that is my right, like on uploading

SNA
pages or other ones, and I have no intention to ask somebody's

permission
for doing that.

You have the right to think anything you wish on them, but I can only

hope
that you will have the honesty of *recusing* yourself as a FIP juror

when
I'll present the SNA site (if and when it will be again possibly) to the
next FIP websites' contest.

After the group has refused your proposal referring to the subject lines

of
postings, you have tried a first diversion by attacking without obvious
reasons SNA's humor. It was obviously a detour for nothing, because this
subject was largely discussed on this NG, and a solution that is

acceptable
for most people here was found already a long time ago.

In your last posting you bring strange insinuations (or maybe personal
attacks, no idea): "as long as you don't violate copy rights and keep

the
secrecy of mails". I'm not sure if you are aware that this sounds like a
serious accusation, because if you are aware, then I have to consider

this
as a somehow strange behavior. I don't know exactly what you have in

mind,
so I can only wonder whether this belongs to RCSD or actually into

personal
mail (in case that you feel somehow personally concerned).

The good question is: have your digressions something to do with your
(refused) demand of changing the subject line accordingly to your

wishes, by
neglecting the Netiquette? IMO, there could be a relationship,

eventually
explained by a personal frustration. There is nothing better to do than

to
simply accept what others say, and not to digress each time toward

things
that you personally dislike on this NG or at some of its participants.

Finally, if your intention is to bring unnecessary troubles into this
generally peaceful and polite NG, then this is your choice, and your
personal responsibility too.

Victor Manta

"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote:

....snip SNA
So you propose to renounce them, so that you (or anyone else) has to:

1. Open the posting
2. Read it
3. Eventually pay for that connection time
4. Observe that the posting it is not stamp related, or has another

subject
5. Close it, usually disappointed


Isn't that obvious? If I have an opinion about something I have to
know what I'm talking about. ("usually disappointed" is your meaning -
not necessarily correct).

Why deleting them? I'm asking, because I just read what interests me,
without deleting anything. Anyway, after a time all postings are

removed.

Not using my newsreader: First all headers only are downloaded. Then I
download the body of postings I would like to read to my computer and
keep them until I delete them. I then just delete the headers of
postings I don't want to read - and they won't show up again next time
I go online (so I save a lot of download time downloading only headers
at first). I have many 5-6 year old postings on MY computer. (There is
plenty of space on my HD)

BTW, when something is hard to understand, why nonetheless give an

opinion
on it? ..snip


That's not hard to me to understand

But - are you really serious when you mean that your SNA-halløj
(sorry, Danish word) is funny/humour? I will defend your right to
post/upload etc. SNA-pages until my death (as long as you don't
violate copy rights and keep the secrecy of mails) but that does not
mean that I have to think it's humour.

Just to mention that an explanation for some of humor is given in the
ng's FAQ and on a website.


It's good to know that I can read somewhere examples of humour so I
can see what is humour and what's not! (I couldn't resist! :-)

J. A. Mc. wrote:

It -is- considered netiquette to alter the header when the

discussion
strays off the original topic.

(Toke
Oh, yes of course - but just adding one or two words which don't
exactly shows what the new thread is about is annoying (to me :-)


I agree, supposedly (by the netiquette site I first read) the header
form should be:
Yyyy yyyyy (was - Xxxxx xxxxx xxx)


Exactly!
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/



  #17  
Old August 3rd 03, 03:46 PM
Toke Nørby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Douglas MYALL" wrote:

If ever there was a posting which deserved an alteration to its subject
line it is this one. It is an agreed courtesy in this NG to include SNA
in a posting on that subject. Or is it considered that humour begins, and
ends, with SNA topics?


Even it is of very little importance/interest I have fully agreed that
there should (have) be(en) a subject change when Blair and I began
commenting the "SNA-humour" - which caused Victor to rush into print
(that phrase is much more colorful in Danish: "fare i blækhuset" :-)

Strange enough Victor also included brand new subjects:

You have the right to think anything you wish on them, but I can only
hope that you will have the honesty of *recusing* yourself as a FIP juror
when I'll present the SNA site (if and when it will be again possibly) to the
next FIP websites' contest.


Oh my! (I really had to hold back start teasing you, Victor, but I'll
be serious). No one can at the moment say anything about the coming
evaluations and the judges involved. Whomever will be judges on coming
web site evaluations - all will simply use the evaluation scheme which
can be found he

http://www.norbyhus.dk/fipliterature/ and click on "Evaluation
Scheme". Time will show if it will be modified.

Judges simply don't care what the exhibitor has asked to be evaluated
and the judges can like/dislike the person but that will have no
influence on the evaluation. The judges will simply evaluate the sites
in the way the FIP board has agreed they should be evaluated. No more
- no less.

After the group has refused your proposal referring to the subject lines
of postings, you have tried a first diversion by attacking without obvious
reasons SNA's humor. It was obviously a detour for nothing, because this
subject was largely discussed on this NG, and a solution that is
acceptable for most people here was found already a long time ago.


I wonder if I should stay in my little hole a bit longer! and write on
my blackboard "SNA is humour - SNA is humour" a hundred times and
write "Hehehehehehe" as my only comment to future SNA-postings).

...snip
Even there is no reason to ask me to defend your rights to upload what
you like I can't do that when you violate copy rights - which you did
when you included the two FIP logos in your "Fenny-Award-2003" to the
FIP literature commission. These logos are the property of FIP. Even
you didn't knew that you don't have rights to use them.

Still no reason to ask me to defend your rights to upload what you
like if you don't keep the secrecy of mail - which you in my opinion
don't when you upload private mails without asking the senders for
permission. Nowhere on your FIP-related pages with e-mails I can see
that you have asked people involved for permission to upload their
e-mails. So if people asks you to remove their mails, you should do
it. (You talk about net etiquette)

The good question is: have your digressions something to do with your
(refused) demand of changing the subject line accordingly to your
wishes, by neglecting the Netiquette? IMO, there could be a relationship,
eventually explained by a personal frustration.


Victor - this is humour!: asking questions and answer them in the same
line! You don't need my comment here! You have already hit the nail!
"Personal frustration"! Very good, Victor!

Finally, if your intention is to bring unnecessary troubles into this
generally peaceful and polite NG, then this is your choice, and your
personal responsibility too.


Again - ask a question and answer it on the same line. ("If you steal
my car you will be put behind bars"). You neither need my comment
here.

Back to my little hole.
--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/
  #18  
Old August 3rd 03, 08:14 PM
Toke Nørby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bob Ingraham wrote:

At night in our tents, we tell our wide-eyed children the mythic tale of the
Viking warrior Fip Toke-norby who, rising from his philatelic table, strides
across Europe to the mountain fastness of Switzerland, there to slay the
dread Mantavic, who, armed with powerful logos and website mastery, is also
protected by his army of fanatic fennecs, who have pledged jihad against all
Skeptics and Heretics. The continent trembles under the clash of words. Who
will prevail?

boB


I wish I could master the English language. I would make a poem and a
runic stone in the good old futhark! As all Danish vikings I have very
close friends in Asgaard. Odin has allowed me to ask Thor if I could
borrow his hammer (Mjølner) for a while to cut the words in the stone.
While making the runic stone, all philatelic web masters in the world
will shudder from the peals and will rush for the first cart to
Spanish Africa!

I have already been practicing a bit:
http:/www.norbyhus.dk/runic5.html :-)

--
Mvh Toke
http://www.norbyhus.dk/
  #19  
Old August 3rd 03, 09:17 PM
A.M.Heindorff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Victor Manta wrote in message
...
"Toke Nørby" wrote in message
news


- very big snip -

One can wonder what has Toke to do with this thing, and why does he bring

it
in an unrelated thread. My only explanation is that as a (former?) FIP

juror
he tries to protect his comrades against the "bad" (in his eyes) SNA

irony.
Why haven't we heard something about those "logos" when we have discussed
here the debacle of the FIP 2002 contest, and when the page was published,
and why has he chosen for this, much later, an unrelated thread? No idea,
just some suppositions. As concerning FIP's logos (actually these were
images of their awards) on the SNA sheet, they were replaced by something
more funny a long time ago, so why speaking about the snows of yesterday

(or
continue beating the same dead horse, if this sounds more familiar)?


The images of their awards is so similar to their copyrighted logo, that
it is self-protected.


The history of FIP contest related e-mails that SNA has allegedly

published
without approval is a *pure* invention. Period.


Victor, this is *not* true, and you know it. You have quoted
my posts from this NG, without my prior consent.

BTW, it is up to the authors
of those (which?)


me for one!

e-mails to write me if they feel concerned, and not up to
Toke to try playing a kind of role of the Sir Knight of the Sorrowful
Figure, and this especially when nobody asked him for that.


I have not discussed this issue with Toke at all, but I have
written to you in private and asked you to remove "my part"
of the SNA fenny-award page. You refused flatly. You told
me that because I had published my opinion on a public NG,
you were free to use that opinion on your page without asking
first. I couldn't convince you that *I* have the copyright to what
I say, and that I do not wish to be quoted before knowing first.
You asked me whether I was afraid of somebody or something.
I am not; it is simply a matter of principle that I want to know
where I am to be quoted and in which context. I want to maintain
my right to say "no", and expected of course that you would
respect that. By refusing to remove anything quoted from me,
you have not respected my rights. In case you do not remember
this private discussion between us, I will be happy to forward
the related emails to you.

At that point I gave up discussing with you, knowing that your
main attitude is "don't argue with me, because you won't win".
The only thing I could say was DON'T DO IT IN THE FUTURE!

Ann Mette Heindorff







  #20  
Old August 3rd 03, 09:59 PM
Victor Manta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"A.M.Heindorff" wrote in message
...
Victor Manta wrote in message
...



The history of FIP contest related e-mails that SNA has allegedly

published
without approval is a *pure* invention. Period. (V.M.)


Victor, this is *not* true, and you know it. You have quoted
my posts from this NG, without my prior consent. (AMH)

BTW, it is up to the authors
of those (which?) (VM)


me for one! (AMH)

e-mails to write me if they feel concerned, and not up to
Toke to try playing a kind of role of the Sir Knight of the Sorrowful
Figure, and this especially when nobody asked him for that.


snip

Ann Mette Heindorff


Would you first of all *please* attentively read Toke's postings, and look
at what is he actually talking about!!! I still don't know to which
*e-mails* is he referring to, and this on the *SNA* site (because he speaks
about the SNA, apparently his bête noire - pet hate of the moment). I gave
him in my answers enough elements so that he could eventually
revise/adapt/better/improve what he was writing, but it didn't help.

As for our *private* conversations, on a subject that is unrelated (!) to
Toke's postings and to this thread, it is obviously not the place here to
continue them. I'm fully (privately) at your disposal if you have to add
something to our private discussion (of which, certainly, I have never
published something) that I have thought closed to the satisfaction of both
sides.

Victor Manta

 




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