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Greece urges ECB to issue low denomination Euro notes



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 1st 05, 06:02 AM
Jud
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Dik T. Winter wrote:
On the other hand I have in my collection rag-notes from
countries that have (and had) no real value at all.


I still have a few 50=A2 notes from Jamaica when the exchange rate to
the US dollar was J$0.88=3DUS$1.00 (about 1974). Last time I was there,
in January, the exchange rate was US$1.00=3DJ$62.00, making the notes
value US$0.008, almost 1 cent. In 1974 the largest bill was J$10.00,
and I can remember the introduction of the J$10, J$20, J$50 and J$100.
Now the most common bill is J$500 with quite a few J$1000 in
circulation. It boggles the mind buying a beer for J$300, but it sure
is fun playing poker. "See your $100 and raise you another $100". I use
the J$100 bill for a bookmark, cheaper than buying a bookmark and has a
lot more class. The J$20 coin is bimetallic and the J$10 coin has a
scalloped edge, both neat coins.

Ads
  #12  
Old July 1st 05, 10:52 AM
Christian Feldhaus
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Dik T. Winter wrote:

Has Austria gotten out of that discussion?


Guess that some in Austria would not mind, or even welcome, having low
value notes. But I suppose that, first, they have gotten used to the
coins, and second, they do not expect rag euros to solve any country
specific problems.

I find it interesting that quite a few of the new member nations already
circulate coins that are in excess of 1 (or even 2) Euro.


As did DE and NL until early 2002 g. Guess the gap between 2 and 5
euro was a little wide to also make a 5 euro coin. Well, I realize that
the current setup was a compromise accepted a couple of years ago, and
it does not make much sense to discuss the coins/notes "setup" every
couple of weeks :-)

However, if the governments of two Mediterranean countries want low
value notes so desperately that despite various comments and final
decisions of the ECB they demand them again and again, we should also
think about higher value coins. They would be fine with me.

Christian
  #13  
Old July 1st 05, 10:52 AM
Christian Feldhaus
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Padraic Brown wrote:

I wonder how much of that is Germans and French realising that they
are giving up their very own countries -- Germany's ability to direct
Germany's policies -- piecemeal. I think this is one reason why the
Brits have restrained from the euro -- they still have what we like to
call a national backbone. )))


Well, if you join a union (European Union, a currency union, etc.), you
do of course give up some of your "national sovereignty". That is how
such unions work. The rules of a club may well change with the times,
but don't join a club if you do not intend to play by its rules anyway
g.

Is that really so? Is it so binding that Greece couldn't choose to
pull out? Not saying they would, mind!


The European currency is part of the EU's acquis communautaire like
pretty much the rest of EU law. Which means a joining country cannot
simply pick some rules it likes to adhere to, and state it will ignore
some others. Now we all know that rules are there to be dealt with
flexibly ;-) So I suppose that, if a member state wants to leave the
European Union, it will ultimately do so even though - since the
Constitution was rejected due to the Dutch and French votes - there is
no "legal" path of doing so. Similarly, if a country wants to stay or
get out of the currency union, there will be a way ...

Christian
  #14  
Old July 1st 05, 10:52 AM
Christian Feldhaus
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gogu wrote:

Christian, I've read lately that even the Germans are asking for their Mark
back not to mention the French !


Sure, and others blame the European Union for the effects of
globalization, and thus voted against the Constitution ... and others,
particularly in DE, say that our economy would still be "healthy" if the
Eastern German states had not joined the Federal Republic 15 years ago.
You will always have people who say that "back then, things were
better".

And if someone gets "hit" by various extreme price increases, he or she
is likely to ignore the fact that the overall price increase as
expressed in the inflation rate has been at a record low since the
introduction of the euro cash. Well, maybe these people hope that those
businesses that abused the cash changeover for price hikes (and yes,
there were quite a few such cases!) will not do so if the cash is
replaced by new cash once again. Huh? ;-)

So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.


The difference is that, in terms of government "requests", it is only
the Greek and the Italians that try changing the coins/notes setup again
and again. (In the first years, it was also the Austrian government that
wanted them.) After some consideration, the ECB decided about half a
year ago to not introduce such low value notes. From the 18-Nov-2004
press release:

| In particular, the insufficient demand for very low denomination
| banknotes by the majority of euro area citizens, the increased
| inefficiency the introduction would imply for most of the affected
| third parties, for instance the retail sector and the vending machine
| industry, and the high costs of printing and processing support the
| Governing Council's decision on this issue.

But only a couple of weeks later the Greek minister Dimitris Sioufas and
the Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi demanded low value notes again ...
Maybe it would help if GR and IT issued such rag euros themselves, which
would then (just as the ¤5, ¤10, etc. collector coins) be legal tender
in the issuing country only?

Christian
  #15  
Old July 1st 05, 04:12 PM
gogu
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? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:04:28 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:

One euro is one euro,
regardless of whether it's a coin or a bill.


Yeah, that's why Americans dislike the coin dollars and prefer to use the
dollar bills...In your line of logic they must be stupid, too ;-)


Actually, it ìs stupid.


:-)
As Jesus said: "you said it" ;-)))

Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance.


So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins
?...
My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-)

There's not enough of them to really make a dent, even
for those of us who would want to use them. Commerce refuses to
actually use them, despite banks who have "Got golden dollars" posters
and Wal Mart 'promotions' when the thing was first introduced. They're
a nuisance because there is still the more familiar ragbuck in common
use and is numerically FAR more numerous than the coins.


!
That's what I said about the old European currencies !
We all are used with our "old" money, so...
Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.


Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the
older people to accustom with the new currency.
I don't see something unusual to this...

If people are having
trouble transitioning from drachmas to euros, that's another story. I
fail to see how using a bill or a coin is going to help there.


Then pray tell why Americans prefer to use the bill instead of the coin
?...


Been addressed here lots of times. Americans dó like the dollar coin


My experience from a couple of threads here and from articles is different;
Americans dislike the dollar coin but they use it because they can't refuse
it.

-- very rare indeed is the experience where people actually DISlike
the dollar coin. We don't really "prefer" to use the dollar note --
it's simply the only viable choice we have at present, unless we
specifically hunt down and seek out dollar coins.

And anyway, we're not using a new currency system! I think his point
is how would a ?1.oo note help the Greeks any more than a ?1.oo coin
when the whole system is all new?


I have explained it how.
But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...

Why should they start making low-denomination bills just because Greece
didn't keep up with their own money system and kept ridiculously-low
bills in circulation?


Italy had even lower denominations but I see that you are not protesting
about "stupid" Italians...


I think he mentioned Italy.


His quote is just above mine here, no Italy.
Maybe in another paragraph.

Spain had small denominations quite like Greece.


Smallest peseta note denomination (as of 10 years ago when I was
there) was 1000. They had replaced the 200 and 500 pta notes with
coins by then -- the equivalent of about ?2 and ?5 -- even better than
present system, which offers a ?5 note rather than a coin.

I am a Greek and I feel like that, so I must be stupid :-)...


Well, how would a one euro note help you come to grips with the new
system in a way that the present one euro coin can't?


The point is not that the euro note will help me the way you say, it will
just make people "feel" better the value of the money !

Speaking as one of those reviled Merkins, I had absolutely no
difficulty with going from US$ to Spanish pesetas. I had no choice.


And I have lived for years abroad, so I never had a problem with any foreign
currency.
But here we are not talking about me and you, we are talking about entire
countries, with many older persons...

I guess the best thing you lot in general can do is 1) suck it up and
2) get over it. The drachma is gone, along with the peseta and lira.
Stop thinking in terms of drachmas and you'll be perfectly at home
with euros in about a week.


???
Who said that I believe to a come back ?!
I know that euro is here to stay, so I don't understand you above quote...
I was jut talking about how people feel generally, not me !

A nice weekend to you, too...


--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.




  #16  
Old July 1st 05, 04:13 PM
gogu
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? "Padraic Brown" ?????? ??? ??????
...
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 03:08:02 +0300, "gogu"
wrote:


So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans
but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.



That doesn't make any sense -- the older generation of Europeans more
than any other generation ought to be USED to currency change overs!
Octogenarian Germans should remember the last gasp of the Weimar
marks, 3rd Reich marks, post-war deutchmarks/marks. The euro should be
a slice of cake for them. The French should also remember pre-war and
post-war francs plus that change (I think in the 1960s) from old to
new francs.


And they had great problems in doing that !
I still remember 10 or 20 years ago some older people having difficulties
with the ... kilogram system here !
They were used with the ocha/dramia system (Turkish) and until they died
they never
fully understood the "new" system :-)
They had always to transform the kilos to ochas and the grams to dramia
:-)))


But I agree with you: "the game will go on and on" but there is no chance
to
go back to the old currencies. Euro is here to stay.



Is that really so? Is it so binding that Greece couldn't choose to
pull out? Not saying they would, mind!



This is nonsense !
Not Greece nor any other euroland country will pull out of the EMU.
That would be a disaster for their economies.
And you can't reform your monetary system in, say a couple of months and go
back to your older currency.
From my own experience they are *only* the older people to protest against
the euro.

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

Padraic.


la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.




  #17  
Old July 1st 05, 04:15 PM
gogu
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? "Christian Feldhaus" ?????? ??? ??????
d...
gogu wrote:

Christian, I've read lately that even the Germans are asking for their
Mark
back not to mention the French !


Sure, and others blame the European Union for the effects of
globalization,


Well, that's stupid !

So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans
but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.


The difference is that, in terms of government "requests", it is only
the Greek and the Italians that try changing the coins/notes setup again
and again. (In the first years, it was also the Austrian government that
wanted them.) After some consideration, the ECB decided about half a
year ago to not introduce such low value notes. From the 18-Nov-2004
press release:


The reality is that nothing will change whatever various governments will
ask for.
At this point and for the shake of the truth, let's say that this was not an
*official* demand from the Greek government but just an idea of a
minister...

| In particular, the insufficient demand for very low denomination
| banknotes by the majority of euro area citizens, the increased
| inefficiency the introduction would imply for most of the affected
| third parties, for instance the retail sector and the vending machine
| industry, and the high costs of printing and processing support the
| Governing Council's decision on this issue.

But only a couple of weeks later the Greek minister Dimitris Sioufas and
the Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi demanded low value notes again ...
Maybe it would help if GR and IT issued such rag euros themselves, which
would then (just as the ¤5, ¤10, etc. collector coins) be legal tender
in the issuing country only?


I disagree.
The euro system must be the same along whole euroland.

A nice weekend to everybody !

--

E' mai possibile, oh porco di un cane, che le avventure
in codesto reame debban risolversi tutte con grandi
puttane! F.d.A

Coins, travels and mo http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/golanule/my_photos
http://gogu.enosi.org/index.html
http://www.romclub.4t.com/rabin.html

Christian




  #18  
Old July 1st 05, 05:16 PM
Christian Feldhaus
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gogu wrote:

Sure, and others blame the European Union for the effects of
globalization,


Well, that's stupid !


Agreed. But people sometimes prefer stupid theories over more complex
explanations g.

At this point and for the shake of the truth, let's say that this was not an
*official* demand from the Greek government but just an idea of a
minister...


Of course any minister is free to make such suggestions - and Mr Sioufas
has done that numerous times in the past weeks/months, but it would have
been helpful to read what the position of the Greek government is in
that regard.

When two ministers from the Italian populist and anti-EU party "Lega
Nord", Mr Maroni and Mr Calderoli, recently even suggested replacing the
euro with a national currency in Italy, Mr Berlusconi's quick response
was a No. Well, I am sure that somebody like Berlusconi will change his
mind quickly once he sees an opportunity of winning elections by bashing
EUrope ;-) But at least we now know that the position of the Lega Nord
is not shared by the other coalition parties.

Maybe it would help if GR and IT issued such rag euros themselves, which
would then (just as the ¤5, ¤10, etc. collector coins) be legal tender
in the issuing country only?


I disagree.
The euro system must be the same along whole euroland.


That is what I would have said too. But the Dutch 5 euro coins or the
German 10 euro pieces, for example, are collector coins which can be had
at face value. Thus they (theoretically g) circulate but in the
issuing country only. If a similar deal could be made regarding low
value notes, that could address Mr Sioufas's concerns ...

Christian
  #19  
Old July 2nd 05, 03:16 AM
Dik T. Winter
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In article "gogu" writes:
....
Americans don't like dollar coins because they
are a nuisance.


So, why Europeans should not feel the same nuisance for their one euro coins
?...
My pocket is some times so heavy that it makes it a hole ;-)


I do not feel a nuisance at all. Currently I have exactly three coins in
my purse (1 euro, 50 cent and 20 cent). (Yes, I am using a purse that
contains all my money, it is about the size of a small key holder, and
sits perfectly well in my pocket. No loose change in my pockets.)

Just think what would happen if Americans would change their currency with a
*totally* new one like the euro !...


Consider what happened in the UK when they were going decimal (1970 I think).
I have seen it from close quarters.

If we had no real choice but the dollar coin, we would "like" them as
much as any of the other uninspired currency types we've got.


Well, this is happening with Europeans but it will take some times for the
older people to accustom with the new currency.
I don't see something unusual to this...


I see something unusual in this in the Greek and Italian government requiring
small denomination notes.

But as I also said, many people in the EU feel this way and not only the
Greeks are asking for a euro note...


No, the Greek and the Italian. I do not think that the Dutch, German, or
whatever would appreciate the introduction of a Euro note.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
  #20  
Old July 2nd 05, 03:18 AM
Dik T. Winter
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In article "gogu" writes:
Ï "Dik T. Winter" Ýãñáøå óôï ìÞíõìá
...
In article "gogu"
writes:

....
So it's not only the Greeks, the Italians, the French or the Germans
but -I
believe- every older person in euroland.


I think I figure in the group of older persons. No, I do not want back
the old currency.


I never said that *all* older persons do want that Dik ;-)


You said, explicitly, *every* older person in euroland.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/
 




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