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Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 11th 05, 06:11 AM
tiktak
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Posts: n/a
Default Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts

If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what
buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer
on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not
know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why
the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.



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  #2  
Old October 11th 05, 11:03 AM
Gerhard Reichert
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Default

Hi again,

I will try to send You correct answers later the day. You will get a better
price if the items are expertized, especially for the missperfed one. Nobody
will buy it for a reasonable price if it is not expertised as genuine.

I send You the names and addresses of the German expertisers for these
Zeppelin stamps.

There are only three German BPP Expertizers as follows:

Dr. Helmut P. Oechsner, Gustav-Weisskopf-Weg 13, D-90411 Nürnberg

Andreas Schlegel, Kurfuerstendamm 36, D-10719 Berlin

Hans-Dieter Schlegel, Kurfuerstendamm 36, D-10719 Berlin

best regards

Gerhard Reichert
Aussiger Strasse 11
D-93197 Zeitlarn
Germany

"tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what
buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer
on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do
not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like
to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors
value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.



--
Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups





  #3  
Old October 11th 05, 01:06 PM
Gerhard Reichert
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Default

I just looked for the perforation of Your stamps.

Michel # 496, 497, 498 "Chicago-Fahrt", Overprints on Michel # 423, 424 and
455

This issue was made in so called "Kammzähnung", K 14 (14 Perforation holes
every 2 cm).
You can regocnize "Kammzähnung" very easy, because the margin perfs are all
the same.

Your item has different margin perfs, typically for "Linienzähnung", so it
is possible that they are reprints. A lot of them was sold the last months
at Ebay.

The same problem with Your "Polarfahrt" issue and the missperfed "1.
Südamerikafahrt" issue. Expertising is necessary in every case.

Now to the Picturepostcard with the 4 RM Zeppelin stamp. Postage for Cards
was 1 RM, as far as I know. Please post a better scan for details of the
stamp only and a scan of the rearside of the postcard. Please compare the
perforation of this stamp with the other items. Is it the same perforation?

Here You can have a look at a complete Zeppelin fake card, also with
"Linienzähnung", compare it with Your items:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Chicagofahrt-kplt...c mdZViewItem

and the same here, also fakes:

http://cgi.ebay.de/D-REICH-1-4-RM-Ze...cmd ZViewItem

And here the genuine one, expertised by Schlegel:

http://cgi.ebay.de/DR-496-Zeppelin-C...cmd ZViewItem

You can see the differet perforation clearly.

Best regards

Gerhard

----- Original Message -----
From: "tiktak"
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:11 AM
Subject: Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts


If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what
buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer
on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do
not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like
to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors
value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.


"tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what
buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer
on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do
not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like
to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors
value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.



--
Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups





  #4  
Old October 11th 05, 05:12 PM
peter buder
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Posts: n/a
Default

tiktak schrieb:
If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what
buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer
on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not
know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why
the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.



gerhard is right, the stamps shown are defenitely line perforated. the
genuine ones should have comb-perforation. so you don't need to have
them expertised - they are fakes.
peter
  #5  
Old October 11th 05, 06:19 PM
Michael Appel
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Posts: n/a
Default

"peter buder" skrev i en meddelelse
...
gerhard is right, the stamps shown are defenitely line perforated. the
genuine ones should have comb-perforation. so you don't need to have them
expertised - they are fakes.


Exactly. Here is bunch of fakes sold by id 'mohle' on eBay Germany a few
months ago:

http://www.fakebase.dk/objects/mohle...iner_lille.jpg

and a closeup of one of the corners:

http://www.fakebase.dk/objects/mohle...liner_Stor.jpg

The full (but small) article can be read here, unfortunately in Danish only
yet, but an bnglish version of the article is on its way:

http://www.fakebase.dk/default.asp?a...&section=mohle

/Michael
FakeBase.dk



  #6  
Old October 11th 05, 06:44 PM
Michael Appel
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Posts: n/a
Default

English version available now. Press the 'Watch this site in english' before
reading the article.

/Michael


  #7  
Old October 11th 05, 11:08 PM
Alouette
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Posts: n/a
Default

Hello,

I'd like to better understand how to distinguish comb and line perforations.
(I recently bought Mi 496, certified by Schlegel, and Mr. Schlegel had a
look at his mark on the stamp to be sure that had not been faked as well,
but I still would like to understand how to distinguish between the two type
of perforations.)

You mention that it's easy to distinguish because the margin perforations
all look the same. Could you elaborate on this ?

Thanks

Ivan, Canada
"Gerhard Reichert" a écrit
dans le message de news:
...
I just looked for the perforation of Your stamps.

Michel # 496, 497, 498 "Chicago-Fahrt", Overprints on Michel # 423, 424
and 455

This issue was made in so called "Kammzähnung", K 14 (14 Perforation
holes every 2 cm).
You can regocnize "Kammzähnung" very easy, because the margin perfs are
all the same.

Your item has different margin perfs, typically for "Linienzähnung", so it
is possible that they are reprints. A lot of them was sold the last months
at Ebay.

The same problem with Your "Polarfahrt" issue and the missperfed "1.
Südamerikafahrt" issue. Expertising is necessary in every case.

Now to the Picturepostcard with the 4 RM Zeppelin stamp. Postage for Cards
was 1 RM, as far as I know. Please post a better scan for details of the
stamp only and a scan of the rearside of the postcard. Please compare the
perforation of this stamp with the other items. Is it the same
perforation?

Here You can have a look at a complete Zeppelin fake card, also with
"Linienzähnung", compare it with Your items:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Chicagofahrt-kplt...c mdZViewItem

and the same here, also fakes:

http://cgi.ebay.de/D-REICH-1-4-RM-Ze...cmd ZViewItem

And here the genuine one, expertised by Schlegel:

http://cgi.ebay.de/DR-496-Zeppelin-C...cmd ZViewItem

You can see the differet perforation clearly.

Best regards

Gerhard

----- Original Message -----
From: "tiktak"
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:11 AM
Subject: Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts


If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay,
what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best
offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do
not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like
to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors
value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.


"tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay,
what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best
offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do
not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like
to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors
value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.



--
Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups







  #8  
Old October 11th 05, 11:56 PM
Gerhard Reichert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Ivan,

I scanned three examples and explanations from a German Michel catalogue:

I. Kammzaehnung

http://people.freenet.de/Darklook/up...06e1dd6d7b.jpg

http://people.freenet.de/Darklook/up...06e1dd6e0d.jpg

You can see, that in this way all corner perfs are the same, same constant
distance.
All four corners look just the same.

II. Linienzaehnung

http://people.freenet.de/Darklook/up...06e1dd6e80.jpg

Here the corner perforations are different. You have some very thin, or
missing or
very big corner perforations and not constant distances.

I hope it it a little bit clearer than before.

best regards

Gerhard


"Alouette" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
Hello,

I'd like to better understand how to distinguish comb and line
perforations. (I recently bought Mi 496, certified by Schlegel, and Mr.
Schlegel had a look at his mark on the stamp to be sure that had not been
faked as well, but I still would like to understand how to distinguish
between the two type of perforations.)

You mention that it's easy to distinguish because the margin perforations
all look the same. Could you elaborate on this ?

Thanks

Ivan, Canada
"Gerhard Reichert" a
écrit dans le message de news:
...
I just looked for the perforation of Your stamps.

Michel # 496, 497, 498 "Chicago-Fahrt", Overprints on Michel # 423, 424
and 455

This issue was made in so called "Kammzähnung", K 14 (14 Perforation
holes every 2 cm).
You can regocnize "Kammzähnung" very easy, because the margin perfs are
all the same.

Your item has different margin perfs, typically for "Linienzähnung", so
it is possible that they are reprints. A lot of them was sold the last
months at Ebay.

The same problem with Your "Polarfahrt" issue and the missperfed "1.
Südamerikafahrt" issue. Expertising is necessary in every case.

Now to the Picturepostcard with the 4 RM Zeppelin stamp. Postage for
Cards was 1 RM, as far as I know. Please post a better scan for details
of the stamp only and a scan of the rearside of the postcard. Please
compare the perforation of this stamp with the other items. Is it the
same perforation?

Here You can have a look at a complete Zeppelin fake card, also with
"Linienzähnung", compare it with Your items:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Chicagofahrt-kplt...c mdZViewItem

and the same here, also fakes:

http://cgi.ebay.de/D-REICH-1-4-RM-Ze...cmd ZViewItem

And here the genuine one, expertised by Schlegel:

http://cgi.ebay.de/DR-496-Zeppelin-C...cmd ZViewItem

You can see the differet perforation clearly.

Best regards

Gerhard

----- Original Message -----
From: "tiktak"
Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:11 AM
Subject: Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts


If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay,
what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit
best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do
not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like
to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors
value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.


"tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay,
what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit
best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings.

Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do
not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like
to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors
value.

CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x

CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin

CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x

postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg


thank you.



--
Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups








  #9  
Old October 12th 05, 07:43 AM
Rodney
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Posts: n/a
Default

G'day Alouette,
Line perforations intersect haphazardly
Comb perforations, due to the construction of the punch (or die)
intersect perfectly.
http://cjoint.com/data/kmiTRJWAeP.htm

here is the die for the Grover Comb perforator
( and the reference to the "comb" style)
http://cjoint.com/data/kmiYfGKjJN.htm

HTH


| I'd like to better understand how to distinguish comb and line perforations.
| (I recently bought Mi 496, certified by Schlegel, and Mr. Schlegel had a
| look at his mark on the stamp to be sure that had not been faked as well,
| but I still would like to understand how to distinguish between the two type
| of perforations.)



 




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