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#1
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Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts
If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what
buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. -- Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups |
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#2
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Hi again,
I will try to send You correct answers later the day. You will get a better price if the items are expertized, especially for the missperfed one. Nobody will buy it for a reasonable price if it is not expertised as genuine. I send You the names and addresses of the German expertisers for these Zeppelin stamps. There are only three German BPP Expertizers as follows: Dr. Helmut P. Oechsner, Gustav-Weisskopf-Weg 13, D-90411 Nürnberg Andreas Schlegel, Kurfuerstendamm 36, D-10719 Berlin Hans-Dieter Schlegel, Kurfuerstendamm 36, D-10719 Berlin best regards Gerhard Reichert Aussiger Strasse 11 D-93197 Zeitlarn Germany "tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. -- Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups |
#3
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I just looked for the perforation of Your stamps.
Michel # 496, 497, 498 "Chicago-Fahrt", Overprints on Michel # 423, 424 and 455 This issue was made in so called "Kammzähnung", K 14 (14 Perforation holes every 2 cm). You can regocnize "Kammzähnung" very easy, because the margin perfs are all the same. Your item has different margin perfs, typically for "Linienzähnung", so it is possible that they are reprints. A lot of them was sold the last months at Ebay. The same problem with Your "Polarfahrt" issue and the missperfed "1. Südamerikafahrt" issue. Expertising is necessary in every case. Now to the Picturepostcard with the 4 RM Zeppelin stamp. Postage for Cards was 1 RM, as far as I know. Please post a better scan for details of the stamp only and a scan of the rearside of the postcard. Please compare the perforation of this stamp with the other items. Is it the same perforation? Here You can have a look at a complete Zeppelin fake card, also with "Linienzähnung", compare it with Your items: http://cgi.ebay.de/Chicagofahrt-kplt...c mdZViewItem and the same here, also fakes: http://cgi.ebay.de/D-REICH-1-4-RM-Ze...cmd ZViewItem And here the genuine one, expertised by Schlegel: http://cgi.ebay.de/DR-496-Zeppelin-C...cmd ZViewItem You can see the differet perforation clearly. Best regards Gerhard ----- Original Message ----- From: "tiktak" Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:11 AM Subject: Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. "tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. -- Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups |
#4
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tiktak schrieb:
If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. gerhard is right, the stamps shown are defenitely line perforated. the genuine ones should have comb-perforation. so you don't need to have them expertised - they are fakes. peter |
#5
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"peter buder" skrev i en meddelelse
... gerhard is right, the stamps shown are defenitely line perforated. the genuine ones should have comb-perforation. so you don't need to have them expertised - they are fakes. Exactly. Here is bunch of fakes sold by id 'mohle' on eBay Germany a few months ago: http://www.fakebase.dk/objects/mohle...iner_lille.jpg and a closeup of one of the corners: http://www.fakebase.dk/objects/mohle...liner_Stor.jpg The full (but small) article can be read here, unfortunately in Danish only yet, but an bnglish version of the article is on its way: http://www.fakebase.dk/default.asp?a...§ion=mohle /Michael FakeBase.dk |
#6
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English version available now. Press the 'Watch this site in english' before
reading the article. /Michael |
#7
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Hello,
I'd like to better understand how to distinguish comb and line perforations. (I recently bought Mi 496, certified by Schlegel, and Mr. Schlegel had a look at his mark on the stamp to be sure that had not been faked as well, but I still would like to understand how to distinguish between the two type of perforations.) You mention that it's easy to distinguish because the margin perforations all look the same. Could you elaborate on this ? Thanks Ivan, Canada "Gerhard Reichert" a écrit dans le message de news: ... I just looked for the perforation of Your stamps. Michel # 496, 497, 498 "Chicago-Fahrt", Overprints on Michel # 423, 424 and 455 This issue was made in so called "Kammzähnung", K 14 (14 Perforation holes every 2 cm). You can regocnize "Kammzähnung" very easy, because the margin perfs are all the same. Your item has different margin perfs, typically for "Linienzähnung", so it is possible that they are reprints. A lot of them was sold the last months at Ebay. The same problem with Your "Polarfahrt" issue and the missperfed "1. Südamerikafahrt" issue. Expertising is necessary in every case. Now to the Picturepostcard with the 4 RM Zeppelin stamp. Postage for Cards was 1 RM, as far as I know. Please post a better scan for details of the stamp only and a scan of the rearside of the postcard. Please compare the perforation of this stamp with the other items. Is it the same perforation? Here You can have a look at a complete Zeppelin fake card, also with "Linienzähnung", compare it with Your items: http://cgi.ebay.de/Chicagofahrt-kplt...c mdZViewItem and the same here, also fakes: http://cgi.ebay.de/D-REICH-1-4-RM-Ze...cmd ZViewItem And here the genuine one, expertised by Schlegel: http://cgi.ebay.de/DR-496-Zeppelin-C...cmd ZViewItem You can see the differet perforation clearly. Best regards Gerhard ----- Original Message ----- From: "tiktak" Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:11 AM Subject: Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. "tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. -- Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups |
#8
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Hi Ivan,
I scanned three examples and explanations from a German Michel catalogue: I. Kammzaehnung http://people.freenet.de/Darklook/up...06e1dd6d7b.jpg http://people.freenet.de/Darklook/up...06e1dd6e0d.jpg You can see, that in this way all corner perfs are the same, same constant distance. All four corners look just the same. II. Linienzaehnung http://people.freenet.de/Darklook/up...06e1dd6e80.jpg Here the corner perforations are different. You have some very thin, or missing or very big corner perforations and not constant distances. I hope it it a little bit clearer than before. best regards Gerhard "Alouette" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... Hello, I'd like to better understand how to distinguish comb and line perforations. (I recently bought Mi 496, certified by Schlegel, and Mr. Schlegel had a look at his mark on the stamp to be sure that had not been faked as well, but I still would like to understand how to distinguish between the two type of perforations.) You mention that it's easy to distinguish because the margin perforations all look the same. Could you elaborate on this ? Thanks Ivan, Canada "Gerhard Reichert" a écrit dans le message de news: ... I just looked for the perforation of Your stamps. Michel # 496, 497, 498 "Chicago-Fahrt", Overprints on Michel # 423, 424 and 455 This issue was made in so called "Kammzähnung", K 14 (14 Perforation holes every 2 cm). You can regocnize "Kammzähnung" very easy, because the margin perfs are all the same. Your item has different margin perfs, typically for "Linienzähnung", so it is possible that they are reprints. A lot of them was sold the last months at Ebay. The same problem with Your "Polarfahrt" issue and the missperfed "1. Südamerikafahrt" issue. Expertising is necessary in every case. Now to the Picturepostcard with the 4 RM Zeppelin stamp. Postage for Cards was 1 RM, as far as I know. Please post a better scan for details of the stamp only and a scan of the rearside of the postcard. Please compare the perforation of this stamp with the other items. Is it the same perforation? Here You can have a look at a complete Zeppelin fake card, also with "Linienzähnung", compare it with Your items: http://cgi.ebay.de/Chicagofahrt-kplt...c mdZViewItem and the same here, also fakes: http://cgi.ebay.de/D-REICH-1-4-RM-Ze...cmd ZViewItem And here the genuine one, expertised by Schlegel: http://cgi.ebay.de/DR-496-Zeppelin-C...cmd ZViewItem You can see the differet perforation clearly. Best regards Gerhard ----- Original Message ----- From: "tiktak" Newsgroups: rec.collecting.stamps.discuss Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:11 AM Subject: Graf Zeppelin Germany, Value question please for experts If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. "tiktak" schrieb im Newsbeitrag ... If these were in your possesion, and you wanted to sell them on ebay, what buynow price would you offer them at and would you allow submit best offer on this listing? I do not trust auction style listings. Scans are available below. I hope they look and are genuine items, I do not know much about these. in fact, I do not even know (and would like to) why the so-called german "zeppelins" have such a high collectors value. CAT-MI- NR496**,497**,498**, Wz-2x CAT - MI- NR 439** Wz 2 with error+margin CAT-MI-NR-456**,457**,458**, Wz 2x postcard zeppelin KAT-MI-NR498 http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_3.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_2.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...66517234_1.jpg http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24...A/66517234.jpg thank you. -- Please remove the spam protection if emailing me through newsgroups |
#9
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G'day Alouette,
Line perforations intersect haphazardly Comb perforations, due to the construction of the punch (or die) intersect perfectly. http://cjoint.com/data/kmiTRJWAeP.htm here is the die for the Grover Comb perforator ( and the reference to the "comb" style) http://cjoint.com/data/kmiYfGKjJN.htm HTH | I'd like to better understand how to distinguish comb and line perforations. | (I recently bought Mi 496, certified by Schlegel, and Mr. Schlegel had a | look at his mark on the stamp to be sure that had not been faked as well, | but I still would like to understand how to distinguish between the two type | of perforations.) |
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