Seeburg 1973 "Matador" missing some selections; picking up others not selected

I have a Seeburg Matador that is literally giving me fits. I'm not that
great with a meter, electronics; but usually I can get around this
weakness by cleaning contacts, toroids, detent switches, and re-capping
buffer boards. Here's what happens, and what I've done so far.
When it was brought to me, it wouldn't select at all. I've re-shaped
the pins on the contact block, cleaned the toroids and grounding plate
with a pencil eraser, crocus cloth, rubbing alcohol, and finally,
electronic spray cleaner. I've also cleaned the detent switches behind
the mechanism.
It appears to operate properly at first, but then I realize it missed a
song or two that I did play, and adds extra selections that I did not
play. The control center works fine in my other Seeburgs I've tried it
in.
I've seen in other posts these symptoms could be due to the tormat
memory unit plug not making good contact. How do I check this, and know
A) it really is making good contact (all around the rca plug), or
B)it's making pretty good contact in most cases, but not quite perfect
as to cause the selection problems I'm experiencing. I don't feel it's
an alignment problem, or a problem with the contact block/toroids as it
is working 90% of the time. Could it be like the older Seeburgs, where
the keyboard throws out errant signals/noise to the tormat system? In
other words, in the keypad itself. What makes it work fine 90% of the
time, but miss some, and add other selections the other 10%? Thanks in
advance.
ps I know about the battery trick, and the old troubleshooting guide
stuff. But everytime I try to be systematic about it, it either leads
to a "faulty electronics" explanation, or doesn't really pinpoint the
problem I'm experiencing. I do realize my lack of electronics knowledge
(using a meter easily) is a big part of the problem. Can someone help
me narrow it down, and help with some step by step instructions, based
on what I've done so far? Thanks again, Rob

Rob, Steve here. I thought I might impart upon you some useful info
regarding your dilema. Have you tried swapping your black & grey boxes? I've
had the same problem with std3's and other beasts of that ilk. BTW, that rca
conn. coming from the tormat, make sure you sand the female, (outer
portion), of the plug it connects to on that panel that houses that mech
start/stop credit and cancel switches. Hope this helps!


wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a Seeburg Matador that is literally giving me fits. I'm not that
great with a meter, electronics; but usually I can get around this
weakness by cleaning contacts, toroids, detent switches, and re-capping
buffer boards. Here's what happens, and what I've done so far.
When it was brought to me, it wouldn't select at all. I've re-shaped
the pins on the contact block, cleaned the toroids and grounding plate
with a pencil eraser, crocus cloth, rubbing alcohol, and finally,
electronic spray cleaner. I've also cleaned the detent switches behind
the mechanism.
It appears to operate properly at first, but then I realize it missed a
song or two that I did play, and adds extra selections that I did not
play. The control center works fine in my other Seeburgs I've tried it
in.
I've seen in other posts these symptoms could be due to the tormat
memory unit plug not making good contact. How do I check this, and know
A) it really is making good contact (all around the rca plug), or
B)it's making pretty good contact in most cases, but not quite perfect
as to cause the selection problems I'm experiencing. I don't feel it's
an alignment problem, or a problem with the contact block/toroids as it
is working 90% of the time. Could it be like the older Seeburgs, where
the keyboard throws out errant signals/noise to the tormat system? In
other words, in the keypad itself. What makes it work fine 90% of the
time, but miss some, and add other selections the other 10%? Thanks in
advance.
ps I know about the battery trick, and the old troubleshooting guide
stuff. But everytime I try to be systematic about it, it either leads
to a "faulty electronics" explanation, or doesn't really pinpoint the
problem I'm experiencing. I do realize my lack of electronics knowledge
(using a meter easily) is a big part of the problem. Can someone help
me narrow it down, and help with some step by step instructions, based
on what I've done so far? Thanks again, Rob

Hi. What was the result of the d cell battery test? Were all
selections on both sides played?

Have the connectors to the black and grey boxes been cleaned and the
female pins reformed?

Has the keypad been dissassembled and cleaned properly?

Joe


Juke Dude wrote:
Rob, Steve here. I thought I might impart upon you some useful info
regarding your dilema. Have you tried swapping your black & grey
boxes? I've
had the same problem with std3's and other beasts of that ilk. BTW,
that rca
conn. coming from the tormat, make sure you sand the female, (outer
portion), of the plug it connects to on that panel that houses that
mech
start/stop credit and cancel switches. Hope this helps!


wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a Seeburg Matador that is literally giving me fits. I'm not
that
great with a meter, electronics; but usually I can get around this
weakness by cleaning contacts, toroids, detent switches, and
re-capping
buffer boards. Here's what happens, and what I've done so far.
When it was brought to me, it wouldn't select at all. I've
re-shaped
the pins on the contact block, cleaned the toroids and grounding
plate
with a pencil eraser, crocus cloth, rubbing alcohol, and finally,
electronic spray cleaner. I've also cleaned the detent switches
behind
the mechanism.
It appears to operate properly at first, but then I realize it
missed a
song or two that I did play, and adds extra selections that I did
not
play. The control center works fine in my other Seeburgs I've tried
it
in.
I've seen in other posts these symptoms could be due to the tormat
memory unit plug not making good contact. How do I check this, and
know
A) it really is making good contact (all around the rca plug), or
B)it's making pretty good contact in most cases, but not quite
perfect
as to cause the selection problems I'm experiencing. I don't feel
it's
an alignment problem, or a problem with the contact block/toroids
as it
is working 90% of the time. Could it be like the older Seeburgs,
where
the keyboard throws out errant signals/noise to the tormat system?
In
other words, in the keypad itself. What makes it work fine 90% of
the
time, but miss some, and add other selections the other 10%? Thanks
in
advance.
ps I know about the battery trick, and the old troubleshooting
guide
stuff. But everytime I try to be systematic about it, it either
leads
to a "faulty electronics" explanation, or doesn't really pinpoint
the
problem I'm experiencing. I do realize my lack of electronics
knowledge
(using a meter easily) is a big part of the problem. Can someone
help
me narrow it down, and help with some step by step instructions,
based
on what I've done so far? Thanks again, Rob

Others have already indicated: It is most surely the black or grey box, I
don't remember which but on those machines that is really the only place
where your kind of problem can happen. Jim

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a Seeburg Matador that is literally giving me fits. I'm not that
great with a meter, electronics; but usually I can get around this
weakness by cleaning contacts, toroids, detent switches, and re-capping
buffer boards. Here's what happens, and what I've done so far.
When it was brought to me, it wouldn't select at all. I've re-shaped
the pins on the contact block, cleaned the toroids and grounding plate
with a pencil eraser, crocus cloth, rubbing alcohol, and finally,
electronic spray cleaner. I've also cleaned the detent switches behind
the mechanism.
It appears to operate properly at first, but then I realize it missed a
song or two that I did play, and adds extra selections that I did not
play. The control center works fine in my other Seeburgs I've tried it
in.
I've seen in other posts these symptoms could be due to the tormat
memory unit plug not making good contact. How do I check this, and know
A) it really is making good contact (all around the rca plug), or
B)it's making pretty good contact in most cases, but not quite perfect
as to cause the selection problems I'm experiencing. I don't feel it's
an alignment problem, or a problem with the contact block/toroids as it
is working 90% of the time. Could it be like the older Seeburgs, where
the keyboard throws out errant signals/noise to the tormat system? In
other words, in the keypad itself. What makes it work fine 90% of the
time, but miss some, and add other selections the other 10%? Thanks in
advance.
ps I know about the battery trick, and the old troubleshooting guide
stuff. But everytime I try to be systematic about it, it either leads
to a "faulty electronics" explanation, or doesn't really pinpoint the
problem I'm experiencing. I do realize my lack of electronics knowledge
(using a meter easily) is a big part of the problem. Can someone help
me narrow it down, and help with some step by step instructions, based
on what I've done so far? Thanks again, Rob

Hi Rocky,
No, I haven't cleaned them yet. What do you use to "clean" edge
connectors.? Crocus cloth, a pencil eraser, a small wire brush? I've
even heard some use Carbon Tet? Do they all work equally well? Is it
simply a matter of preference.
It seems I did try a different black/grey box combination last year
(out of a working Seeburg); sadly, it did not help. The keypad I
thought was an "either/or"; it either selects, or it says re-select and
try again. I didn't know it could cause intermittent selections, or
cause some to be missed.
Thanks all for your tips. I'm still learning this "electronic stuff". I
know a lot about the Seeburgs, but am finding out day-after-day, "if I
haven't encountered it before, the solution escapes me until I have it
explained to me, so I know what I'm dealing with." I'll let you know
how it turns out. Thanks again, Rob






rocky5656 wrote:
Hi. What was the result of the d cell battery test? Were all
selections on both sides played?

Have the connectors to the black and grey boxes been cleaned and the
female pins reformed?

Has the keypad been dissassembled and cleaned properly?

Joe


Juke Dude wrote:
Rob, Steve here. I thought I might impart upon you some useful info
regarding your dilema. Have you tried swapping your black & grey
boxes? I've
had the same problem with std3's and other beasts of that ilk. BTW,
that rca
conn. coming from the tormat, make sure you sand the female, (outer
portion), of the plug it connects to on that panel that houses that
mech
start/stop credit and cancel switches. Hope this helps!


wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a Seeburg Matador that is literally giving me fits. I'm not
that
great with a meter, electronics; but usually I can get around
this
weakness by cleaning contacts, toroids, detent switches, and
re-capping
buffer boards. Here's what happens, and what I've done so far.
When it was brought to me, it wouldn't select at all. I've
re-shaped
the pins on the contact block, cleaned the toroids and grounding
plate
with a pencil eraser, crocus cloth, rubbing alcohol, and finally,
electronic spray cleaner. I've also cleaned the detent switches
behind
the mechanism.
It appears to operate properly at first, but then I realize it
missed a
song or two that I did play, and adds extra selections that I did
not
play. The control center works fine in my other Seeburgs I've
tried
it
in.
I've seen in other posts these symptoms could be due to the
tormat
memory unit plug not making good contact. How do I check this,
and
know
A) it really is making good contact (all around the rca plug), or
B)it's making pretty good contact in most cases, but not quite
perfect
as to cause the selection problems I'm experiencing. I don't feel
it's
an alignment problem, or a problem with the contact block/toroids
as it
is working 90% of the time. Could it be like the older Seeburgs,
where
the keyboard throws out errant signals/noise to the tormat
system?
In
other words, in the keypad itself. What makes it work fine 90% of
the
time, but miss some, and add other selections the other 10%?
Thanks
in
advance.
ps I know about the battery trick, and the old troubleshooting
guide
stuff. But everytime I try to be systematic about it, it either
leads
to a "faulty electronics" explanation, or doesn't really pinpoint
the
problem I'm experiencing. I do realize my lack of electronics
knowledge
(using a meter easily) is a big part of the problem. Can someone
help
me narrow it down, and help with some step by step instructions,
based
on what I've done so far? Thanks again, Rob

Hi. I would highly recommend getting Ron Rich's Seeburg Microlog
troubleshooting guide, gives a *lot* of tips on how to find and repair
problems with these 70's phonos. Check Tony Millers site and go to the
books section.

My keypad on my USC2 gave a lot of *re-select* until I dissassembled
and cleaned it properly.

Have a nice Easter everyone!

Joe



Jim Murphy wrote:
Others have already indicated: It is most surely the black or grey
box, I
don't remember which but on those machines that is really the only
place
where your kind of problem can happen. Jim

wrote in message
oups.com...
I have a Seeburg Matador that is literally giving me fits. I'm not
that
great with a meter, electronics; but usually I can get around this
weakness by cleaning contacts, toroids, detent switches, and
re-capping
buffer boards. Here's what happens, and what I've done so far.
When it was brought to me, it wouldn't select at all. I've
re-shaped
the pins on the contact block, cleaned the toroids and grounding
plate
with a pencil eraser, crocus cloth, rubbing alcohol, and finally,
electronic spray cleaner. I've also cleaned the detent switches
behind
the mechanism.
It appears to operate properly at first, but then I realize it
missed a
song or two that I did play, and adds extra selections that I did
not
play. The control center works fine in my other Seeburgs I've tried
it
in.
I've seen in other posts these symptoms could be due to the tormat
memory unit plug not making good contact. How do I check this, and
know
A) it really is making good contact (all around the rca plug), or
B)it's making pretty good contact in most cases, but not quite
perfect
as to cause the selection problems I'm experiencing. I don't feel
it's
an alignment problem, or a problem with the contact block/toroids
as it
is working 90% of the time. Could it be like the older Seeburgs,
where
the keyboard throws out errant signals/noise to the tormat system?
In
other words, in the keypad itself. What makes it work fine 90% of
the
time, but miss some, and add other selections the other 10%? Thanks
in
advance.
ps I know about the battery trick, and the old troubleshooting
guide
stuff. But everytime I try to be systematic about it, it either
leads
to a "faulty electronics" explanation, or doesn't really pinpoint
the
problem I'm experiencing. I do realize my lack of electronics
knowledge
(using a meter easily) is a big part of the problem. Can someone
help
me narrow it down, and help with some step by step instructions,
based
on what I've done so far? Thanks again, Rob