A Philatelic Debate

"Rodney" wrote in message
...
| Gum is overrated. Period.

When I begin to see major works of art, Picasso, Caravaggio,
Groenig, etc presented with gum on the back of the canvas,
then I may be persuaded to rethink.
Gum is Gooey, Period.


Only if you lick it.

Tony

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:25:17 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

2/26/2004 8:08 AM

Only the MNH VF stamp is unarguably the "best" example of that issue.

Tracy wrote: "Why not a VF / XF unused copy, if gum were not different?"

VF centered stamps are "common," while XF centered stamps are so uncommon as
to be rare, especially on older and classic issues. Once again, I see
Norman's point that VF MNH stamps can be used a benchmark against which to
compare all other mint stamps, whether they are F, G, or XF.

You mentioned only about VF / XF. I mentioned about a stamp VF / XF
and an unused stamp VF / XF.

What's the difference between a MNH VF and an unused VF? Gum.
What's the difference between a MNH XF and an unused XF? Gum.

What's the difference between an unused XF stamp and a VF MNH stamp?

Most stamps are graded F, G, VF, XF upon face alone. (Of course, I
may be totally insane, crazy, kaput, and totally dumb about this.) At
least that's how it has been for the past 3 years, doing auctions for
a local dealer. Gum has been used as an "extra grading" of said
stamp.

So, would I rather have a clean XF unused stamp than a crackling,
crumbling, possible curl / bend MNH stamp? Yes.

In pondering the question more, it seems to that used stamps are far more
difficult to evaluate. I have a wonderful Jersey SON 1890's cancel on a
Victorian GB stamp. Most of the perfs are clipped off, but it's a treasured
part of my collection; with full perfs, it would probably be worth
considerably more than a mint NH copy of the stamp.

This is where things are not equal. I agree with you that some used
stamps, are worth more to me than a MNH -*"blah"*- copy, that is like
a painting without a painter's signature. :^)

I will collect mint stamps, as long as they behave. If they don't
behave, they become unused stamps, where people can criticize that
they are skips, washed cancels and every other sordid term they can
come up with!

There are cancels, and then there are cancels, and they make all the
difference in used stamps.

Big time. I do remember the time being scathed by an Italian
collector about wavy cancels. It was almost like they had HIV or
ebola or some terrible disease. Of course, a nice SON is much more
desirable to many people, but wavy lines are much the norm.

Tracy Barber

"Rodney" wrote in message
...
| Gum is overrated. Period. (Tracy)

When I begin to see major works of art, Picasso, Caravaggio,
Groenig, etc presented with gum on the back of the canvas,
then I may be persuaded to rethink.
Gum is Gooey, Period.

May I expand this interesting idea:

- When I'll see gum on ships then I may be persuaded to rethink
- When I'll see gum on sheep then ...
- When I'll see gum on shops then ...
- When I'll see gum on shades then ...

BTW, because I clearly prefer the art stamps from my collection as MNH, I
wonder what could motivate me to debate this issue Question Mark :-)

Victor Manta

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"Bob Ingraham" wrote in message
...
snip

I wondered if members of r.c.s.d. would like to join the discussion here
in
the newsgroup. Here are the wildly controversial statements that will be
presented for debate:

=========

Debatable Statement 1: In order to interest more people in collecting,
postal administrations should issue more stamps in a greater variety of
formats. It would be a good idea to issue at least 10 different stamps for
each commemorative topic or pictorial topic, instead of just one or two.

The statements (there are several here), in their above formulation, raise
some initial questions like "why focused on formats?" or "why focused on
numbers per issue?" and, in their present form, cannot be answered by more
than "it depends", followed by a quite long list, like: which
administrations, from where, for whom, etc.

Victor Manta

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On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:53:31 +0100, "Victor Manta"
wrote:

"Rodney" wrote in message
...
| Gum is overrated. Period. (Tracy)

When I begin to see major works of art, Picasso, Caravaggio,
Groenig, etc presented with gum on the back of the canvas,
then I may be persuaded to rethink.
Gum is Gooey, Period.

May I expand this interesting idea:

- When I'll see gum on ships then I may be persuaded to rethink
- When I'll see gum on sheep then ...
- When I'll see gum on shops then ...
- When I'll see gum on shades then ...

Victor, you've gone way off the trail here. Here's the direction back
for you, 'K? -------------

BTW, because I clearly prefer the art stamps from my collection as MNH, I
wonder what could motivate me to debate this issue Question Mark :-)

I behooves you to sponsor the collector to keep MNH with that
interest. No problem! Not everyone here collects, as a primary
topical, art on stamps.

By default, stamps are small pieces of art - however good or shabby.

So, if you're looking to present and mantain a museum, then by all
means mount MNH. If you're looking to collect postal history, collect
with a cancel or on cover. Very few MNH stamps are found on cover.
--- :^) Very few MNH stamps have seen postal duty...

Tracy Barber

BTW, because I clearly prefer the art stamps from my collection as MNH, I
| wonder what could motivate me to debate this issue Question Mark :-)

I don't see the point being debatable,
because I do not really see a "wrong way" in stamp collection / philately
What I meant to infer, perhaps rather bluntly,
that I cannot see personally, the advantage of gum in my collection
the caveat remains of course when considering a scarce item, of value
that can be traded at a higher price with gum.
Then I take off my collector hat, and replace it with the investor.
For the gazillions of normal issues this will never be an issue.

A positive for the pro gum lobby, lies in the fact that whilst the rank
and file that save gum, and keep them in adverse conditions, then
this is a huge factor in the failure rate and subsequent disposal
over periods of time.
Just watch as we arrive home, with our latest auction purchase and
begin to discriminate the collections, good old gummy has provided
a nice collection of thins, blunt corners, nicks, tears, rips.
Watch as we pull out a nicely soaked flat issue, that slides out
effortlessly, is pristine, alabaster white, and a joy to behold.

I accept your choice to save gum, I just would like to understand
"why", is it bragging rights or perhaps to be seen as a "purist"?
If gum varieties are to be collected why not have the postal service
issue little vials of the ghastly goo as examples.

"I hate gum, and I'm sticking to it!"

Thanks Tom,
Very Interesting, insider news.
Rgds



"Tom Loepp" wrote in message ...
| Rodney,
| Glue* (in this case it may be rabbit skin glue) might be on
| the back of a canvas but would mean that too much was put on
| the front of the canvas and it soaked through, not good

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:49:07 +0800, "Rodney"
wrote:

I accept your choice to save gum, I just would like to understand
"why", is it bragging rights or perhaps to be seen as a "purist"?

Sometimes this is recognized as snobbish bragging rights, yes. What's
a purist in this sense, though? Someone who has a subscription to
every possible stamp issued from "the Cave" or postal administration,
or the person who piecemeals their collection from various places?

The only purists are those that have the $ to do so - we can't truly
reach their calibre. We can pretend, with our small CV collections,
that we fit in with them, but we never do. They look down on our
paltry offerings, although we may have some decent stuff.

That's one of the reasons I don't play the MNH game and pick up
everything in sight. It is a trap for those who are not hip to the
issuing scene. It's a losing proposition and over time, I'll lose
more to the elements - foxing, toning, curling, crackling, and all
that other nasty wasty stuff that happens to MNH treasures - unless
protected with something that costs 2 - 5 times the CV of the stamp at
times.

If gum varieties are to be collected why not have the postal service
issue little vials of the ghastly goo as examples.

Watch it - we have P.O. spies here who report this info back to the
various places. Haven't you seen the exact opposite happen when we
mentioned they issue too many stamps? They issue more!

This lends itself to the addict stamp collector. No doubt, there are
some addicts out there who drool and salivate over every possible
permutation of 5 different printer's die cuts before they are issued.

Hopefully, they don't ruin their lives over their hobby. Life's too
short!

"I hate gum, and I'm sticking to it!"

Fortunately for us, though, the litle guy (gal) stamp collectors
outnumber those who would wish to snob all over us with their wares.

I collect what I collect and I'm sticking to it! :^)

Tracy Barber