Innovation in Fountain Pens

There appears no way to make ink flow in a 100% dependable
manner on titatinum.

I was going to buy a (Visconti?) Pinocchio pen, in one of the bright colours
(guess). I asked a local pen retailer about it, and she said she is not
carrying them, because of the problems with the titanium nibs: poor ink flow,
brittle nibs.

satrap
who really wanted the bright orange and bright pink and the white Pinocchio
pens

In article , wrote:
Urban Fredriksson wrote:

Unless you know something about it which makes
it unsuitable as a nib material?

Yes I do and so does anyone who knows pens. It offers poor surface flow
and remains a brittle metal. Surface hardened won't help that muc I'd
think.

But the surface hardening I mentioned was for _titanium_
to make it a scratch resistant barrel material.

The nib material which was mentioned is titanium-nickel
alloy, which since it's about half of each can't really be
called titanium. It's unclear from the above if that's
what you say is too brittle and undependable below?

There appears no way to make ink flow in a 100% dependable
manner on titatinum.

It does have interesting surface properties, which no
doubt plays a part here.
--
Urban Fredriksson http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
Just because something is obvious doesn't mean it's true.

Some do write perfectly, but the very next nib cannot be made to
write well no matter what is done. Last I knew John Mottishaw says he
cannot and will not repair titatinum nibs. Frank


He won't retip an inlaid nib either.

Speaking of titanium - the flow dramatically improves when plated heavily with
palladium...however, I lost money on every T-1 I retipped and it is the only
kind of pen that I now refuse to retip as John refuses to as well.
Here is the process: you need to obtain a laser (costly as hell, even if only
for an hour or two), a vacuum chamber, certain inert gasses, etc... The cost
to retip a T-1, although it included making it more flexible than fine to 3mm
with 0.2 oz. pressure...was over $700. Ridiculous and never will be viable.
The moment it heats up, if not protected...the reactions with impure gasses and
oxygen are dramatic. It's a "damn fool metal" to use for nibs - as a 65+ year
veteran nib retipper told me. The best nib metals remain: gold alloys
harder/more durable than 18K, platinum, palladium, and certain stainless steel
alloys.

I do retip inlaid nibs though - and have no removal fees on standard nibs, and
no "fees" tacked on even for postage. Although the backlog is a little worse
than it once was - it is still a small fraction of somebody else's.

Super flex nibs are the #1 reason for delay right now...if you want an aiken
lambert or waterman 52 nib missing a tip to flex from needle fine out to 3mm
with a light featherweight touch - it can be done (if you don't mind a little
"reengineering" of the nib and it's structure/alloy).


http://members.aol.com/repairpens/index.html

Damn it all!

Those who need "proof" of a retip for inlaid sheaffer nibs, see base of this
page. If that is not proof enough...then assume it can't be done. There is no
more time to convince you beyond this! Argh!

http://members.aol.com/scaupaug4/silver/index.html

Very nice work, Nathan. I have looked and looked and looked at the Inlaid nibs,
and haven't a clue that it could be removed.

Dik

So then, what do you do when the pen you want is only offered with a T-1 nib?
Just forget it, or get the pen and then buy another nib? Ask the manufacturer
for a different nib?



satrap


delete what doesn't belong there

Satrap
I find delusions of grandeur to be absolutely true

"so what" wrote:
|
| To each their own, of course, but IMHO this is like putting wings on
a pig.
|
| Wait, think how much faster you could get BBQ! I like it!!

BBQ. MMMMMMMM.

Did someone mention The Moonlite Inn in Owensboro, Kentucky?
|
|
| satrap
| wondering if john cline ii is going to invent a roller coaster-proof
FP...

The best place for fountain pens whenst going coastering is at home!
Pens are more sensible than me, apparently!

On 5 Aug 2003 13:40:25 -0700, (David Heverly)
wrote:

I've been thinking about how fountain pens have changed over the years
and it doesn't seem there has been anything truly innovative in the
last 40 or 50 years.

In general, I think I'd agree with you here (but read on).

The last "innovation" in the fountain pen was some time around the
mid-century, and I'll leave it to the expert collectors to debate
whether it was the Snorkel in particular or some other useful
development. I reject the Lux Atomica's "powdered ink" as simply the
search for gratuitous novelty, and best swept under the carpet.

We've seen huge innovations in almost every area of life and I simply
can't believe that the fountain pen has reached a dead end. So what
did happen ? Simply, the fountain pen lost its place in the
mainstream. Almost no-one still uses a fountain pen. Hardly anyone
still writes ! If today's ecrivain writes by hand, it's unlikely to
be any longer than a note for the milkman (if indeed they still have a
milkman)

There has been one innovation, and that's almost a reaction because of
the decrease in the fountain pen's popularity, rather a development to
delay it. So what is this change ? -- The Mont Blanc's white star.

If anything characterises the post-war half-century, it has to be the
rise of consumerism. Hand-in-hand with this went the development of
brands, and brands that became more important than the products
themselves. The white star is the epitome of this.

Some years ago I opened a bank account in France. My bank manager was
a young guy, managing his first branch and I was his first foreign
customer. We signed the paperwork with the pen he'd been given to
celebrate his appointment - a Mont Blanc. In the classic '80s style it
was not only "a design icon", but it identified itself as such. The
star was visible across the desk, yet only to the cognoscenti who
understood it, further reinforcing not only the power of its
ownership, but the aspirational desire of the others to get theirs.


Is it all such lack of progress and mere vanity though ? I fear so.
Not for the lack of opportunity, for indeed there have been technical
developments applicable to the fountain pen, if only they had been so
applied.

The inkjet printer is now found in nearly as many homes as the
fountain pen would have been 50 years ago. Now there's a technology
that has stood anything but still, and it has a lot to offer to the
pen. It's also now a big enough market to keep once proud technology
giants like HP afloat on ink alone. Inkjet ink clogs less in uncapped
storage, washes out of clothes and is yet also less likely to smear on
a rain-soaked envelope.

Metallurgy has moved along too. Powder sintering, ion implantation and
plasma spraying are all now commonplace and cheap. A box of
gold-coloured TiN (titanium nitride) drill bits are more
wear-resistant than the best high-speed steels, yet they cost pennies
each. Perhaps metal has lost its place entirely, in favour of the
ceramics that are now used for the finest of wear-proof cutting edges.

Electronics has no place in the pen (unless we're back into the realm
of sheer gimmickry), but it has produced an incredible industry of
micro-machining at unimaginable levels of detail. Again, this is an
innovation in the manufacturing process rather than the pen, but it's
no less valuable for that.

As the heart of any pen, a wear-resistant nib with perfectly tailored
flex must be the goal. We now have the technologies to achieve this,
and at low cost. It would even be possible to control the stiffness of
the nib remotely, tuning it for a personal style, or even in
mid-stroke.

So why don't we see these features in production ? I think there are
two reasons.

First of all is the low price of pens and the pen market. The $1000
pen is certainly available, and not even as an esoteric custom-order.
It's still a small market though, and the volume will always be tiny
in relation to the thousands or millions of $1 disposables. It's
economically easier for a maker to spend $100s on hand lacquering a
single tray of pens than it is to introduce even a $10 innovation to
their mainstream product.

Secondly, the fountain pen market is inherently conservative. It's an
unusual and to some extent inconvenient product, where the disposable
roller meets the needs of almost all users far more effectively, let
alone the price. Those who choose to use a fountain pen today are
doing just that - expressing a personal choice. This is as likely to
be the appreciation of a past time, or the appreciation of fine
craftsmanship as it is for the ease in writing. Even if the
connoisseur could be won over to a modern pen that was truly better,
the retrospect might never be.

Could a truly superior pen be made ? Almost certainly.

Will it be made ? Sadly I doubt it.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:45:56 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:


Metallurgy has moved along too.

A question here - as you seem knowledgeable - when ever I need new
frames for my eyeglasses - I buy "flexon" - an alloy that supposedly
has "memory." Thus far, my habit of throwing them on the bed when I
get up for whatever reason - then of course, lying down in them
without remembering they're there has borne this out. I don't know
much beyond the sales blurb about this alloy but it seems to me if
there is such a thing that really does spring back easily into shape,
is very lightweight and so on - might be applied to the making of
flexible nibs that can not be easily "sprung." So... what (of many
things) do I not know that would prevent using such in a fountain pen
nib.

Secondly, the fountain pen market is inherently conservative. It's an
unusual and to some extent inconvenient product, where the disposable
roller meets the needs of almost all users far more effectively,

I have to disagree on this - but only in that I would have said "meets
the needs of uneducated users" - If people knew and understood how
much less pain they would suffer in using an FP vs any other type of
writing instrument that I've ever seen - than their needs would easily
be met. I know I'm not in the minority of people who have problems
with having to put pressure on the page with other pens. While a
well-tuned and smooth FP makes the physical act of writing almost
effortless. Thus far - no rollerball even comes close to that relief.
Gels seem to do better (most of them, some are as bad as ballpoints)
but nothing matches the glide of FP nib across paper for comfort.

alone the price. Those who choose to use a fountain pen today are
doing just that - expressing a personal choice.

yes- - but don't assume that "personal choice" excludes ease of use,
reduction of pain, and other very logical reasons for making such a
choice that go beyond the "ooh it's a Mont Blanc" factor. For me, it
certainly isn't just about craftsmanship or nostalgia. most of my FPs
are modern and some are very cheap pens (even by ballpoint standards)
All remove an element of pain for me personally.

and really - how different is that from other pens - don't we all
chose such things in a way that is expressing personal choice? Other
than the BPs our employers might force I us use because of their
economical nature, on a daily basis a person picks up a ballpoint,
pencil, rollerball, "gel" or FP independent of some sort of social
pressure and because they have made a personal choice to do so. I
know people who only write with gels. They love the bright colors and
smooth flow. or those who like BICS! G because they find them
comfortable and reliable. or, as with my hubby, those who find a
mechanical pencil to be the best writing instrument available hand's
down because you can easily erase mistakes and the tactile feedback is
completely different from a pen of any sort.

I almost feel as if you are saying that an FP is an inferior
instrument simply because it is not as economical (supposedly) or not
as convenient (supposedly) or just not "new and improved" enough.
Economically - I know that my pens will last with minimal need of
repair for decades beyond my life (assuming Dog doesn't use one as a
chew toy). Ink is cheap. Convenience - well - how many times have
you been using a ballpoint that crapped out on you completely. yeah,
it's great that it was a 10c BP from Bic/Biro - but you have to toss
it and maybe got 2 or 3 uses out of it. At least I know that I can
dip my pen in a bottle of ink and refill it (even the "disposables")
Can't count the number of times I was in a bank trying to sign a
deposit slip and found one BP after another on those stupid little
chains and not a **** one of 'em worked.

"new and improved" that I agree with - there is nothing (in terms of
quality) in a new FP that can't be found in an old one... but why
does that make them inferior and why is innovation so important?

in my typical long-winded way I am saying 'If it ain't broke - don't
fix it." And I personally feel that FPs are not "broke" and those few
attempts to "fix" them (Pelikan Level comes to mind) have failed.

This is as likely to
be the appreciation of a past time, or the appreciation of fine
craftsmanship as it is for the ease in writing. Even if the
connoisseur could be won over to a modern pen that was truly better,
the retrospect might never be.

well - i think the convert I seem to have made this past saturday
would prove otherwise - not perhaps in numbers to make FPs more
marketable and appreciated. But at least one person I know who hasn't
used a FP since childhood picked up one of my pens (Phileas) and
started to scribble and said "WoW! That thing just floats across the
page." and "I don't want to put this down!" yes, he will be getting
an FP for his birthday. :-)

Could a truly superior pen be made ? Almost certainly.

tangent:
I do wonder - it *sounds* like you view "flex" as an improvement on
"nails" WRT FP nibs. (but I could be reading this into your post while
it isn't actually there.) While some of us like the interesting feel
of flex, the reason why it is not more popular is not that it can't be
done well (many a nib guru can prove that flex can be done beautifully
in modern pens) but that for most people now (and back in the day when
FPs were *the* writing instrument and flex was about the only choice
you had for some time) it is a novelty and often an irritant. Most
people want something they don't have to concentrate on using. IMO, a
sturdy, smooth, generous flowing FP nib fits that bill just fine.
though I like the flexible nibs I have (two esties, and a Namiki
Falcon ("falcon flex" as some poeple refer to it being different from
"true flex") it did take time for me to feel comfortable with flex
while the first time I picked up a nail like the Phileas - I felt
completely at ease.

Will it be made ? Sadly I doubt it.

probably not - but I'm not sure it's necessary or even good to do so.

just my .02 - pick it apart as need be.

Just to answer your metal question the material is Nitinol, which stands for
a mix of nickel and titanium that was developed at the Naval Ordinance Lab.
It has a "memory" that is unbelievable. The wires used to guide angioplasty
balloons is made of Nitinol and you can tie it in a knot and the knot comes
out without a kink in the wire.

Mark

"kcat" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 11:45:56 +0000, Andy Dingley
wrote:


Metallurgy has moved along too.

A question here - as you seem knowledgeable - when ever I need new
frames for my eyeglasses - I buy "flexon" - an alloy that supposedly
has "memory." Thus far, my habit of throwing them on the bed when I
get up for whatever reason - then of course, lying down in them
without remembering they're there has borne this out. I don't know
much beyond the sales blurb about this alloy but it seems to me if
there is such a thing that really does spring back easily into shape,
is very lightweight and so on - might be applied to the making of
flexible nibs that can not be easily "sprung." So... what (of many
things) do I not know that would prevent using such in a fountain pen
nib.