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  #21  
Old December 9th 03, 10:35 PM
Bob Ingraham
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12/9/2003 12:37 PM

Tracy Barber wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:37:33 +0100, "Mette" wrote:

Tony, I don't understand you. Do you mean to say that the
sheet on the cover I show is a CTO?


He thinks so. It's not quite exactly the same position on the left 2
cancels, if one looks close enough. The canceller would have to be
very, very good to place them where they are though... I suppose that
it could be done!


I suppose it could be done, but the fact is that the sheet
has been used to frank a cover carrying expres-mail from
Ireland to Denmark ...

Besides, a CTO for me would mean that it was CTOd on
the date of issue, not one month after the actual issue.
I don't know the actual date of issue for this sheet -- could
find it out, though -- but I do know that it was sometime in
September 2003, whereas the sheet is postmarked in
October in a small village in the Irish countryside. None
of the four postmarks are placed in exactly the same
position.

Postmark 1 top left has the 'H' in ATHA placed directly
right of the perforation of the top left stamp.

Postmark 2 top left has the same 'H' placed directly
left of the perforation of the top right stamp.

Postmark 3 bottom left has the number '7' placed in
the middle of the perforation between stamp 1 and 2
in the third row.

Postmark 4 bottom right has the number '7' placed
slightly left of the perforation between stamp 3 and 4
in the third row.

Similar sheets were issued in 2002 and 2001. I have
also the 2002-sheet used on cover in 2003, where
the difference between the four hand-cancels is even
more visible.

I don't think they were originally CTOd and then used
afterwards for carrying an expres-cover to Denmark.
I think they are neatly hand-cancelled.

Mette


I agree, Mette. And with the right type of cancellation device (not a
hammer, but a self-inking rubber stamp device, placement can be quite
precise. I myself recently hand-cancelled some covers at the main post
office in Vancouver, and the result looked very nice. With a bit more care,
I could probably do much the same as was done on your sheet.

Bob

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  #22  
Old December 9th 03, 11:17 PM
Bob Ingraham
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12/9/2003 1:35 PM

12/9/2003 12:37 PM

Tracy Barber wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:37:33 +0100, "Mette" wrote:

Tony, I don't understand you. Do you mean to say that the
sheet on the cover I show is a CTO?

He thinks so. It's not quite exactly the same position on the left 2
cancels, if one looks close enough. The canceller would have to be
very, very good to place them where they are though... I suppose that
it could be done!


I had a thought! Yay! How about asking the person who mailed the package?
:^)

Bob

  #23  
Old December 9th 03, 11:47 PM
Tracy Barber
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On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 22:17:04 GMT, Bob Ingraham
wrote:

12/9/2003 1:35 PM

12/9/2003 12:37 PM

Tracy Barber wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:37:33 +0100, "Mette" wrote:

Tony, I don't understand you. Do you mean to say that the
sheet on the cover I show is a CTO?

He thinks so. It's not quite exactly the same position on the left 2
cancels, if one looks close enough. The canceller would have to be
very, very good to place them where they are though... I suppose that
it could be done!


I had a thought! Yay! How about asking the person who mailed the package?
:^)


Um, utterly brilliant, boB! :^P You do come through in a pinch!
--- :^P :^P :^P

Tracy Barber
  #24  
Old December 10th 03, 12:02 AM
Mette
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Bob Ingraham wrote in message
...
12/9/2003 1:35 PM

12/9/2003 12:37 PM

Tracy Barber wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 19:37:33 +0100, "Mette" wrote:

Tony, I don't understand you. Do you mean to say that the
sheet on the cover I show is a CTO?

He thinks so. It's not quite exactly the same position on the left 2
cancels, if one looks close enough. The canceller would have to be
very, very good to place them where they are though... I suppose that
it could be done!


I had a thought! Yay! How about asking the person who mailed the package?
:^)


Excellent boB, excellent! I thought this was "given"
within the whole case. D'ya want his name and
return address ;-)

etteM





  #25  
Old December 10th 03, 01:01 AM
A.E. Gelat
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No, Mette, I meant that the cancellation was done at the same time as the
printing of the stamps. Take a good look at the position of the postmarks
on the stamps. There is no way that a person hand cancelling the stamps can
place it at the same exact place four times on the sheetlet. Perhaps a
better phrase will be Pre-cancelled. This does not mean that the sheetlet
does not exist without the cancellation.

Tony

"Mette" wrote in message
...
Tony, I don't understand you. Do you mean to say that the
sheet on the cover I show is a CTO?

Mette


A.E. Gelat wrote in message
...
Close examination of the postmarks shows them perfectly centered over

four
stamps, four times in the sheetlet. This can only happen if they were
applied at the time of priming.

Tony

"Mette" wrote in message
...
Bob Ingraham wrote in message
...

- snip -

If a postal clerk cancels a stamp at the request of a customer, the
resulting stamp is said to have been "favour cancelled". It may look

like
a
CTO, but isn't.

Good point, Bob. A couple of months ago I received this impressive
expres-cover from Ireland, franked with a whole sheet of AnPost's
latest art issue. The cover is cancelled on 11th October 2003, in
Baile Atha Cliath, Ireland.

http://w1.1429.telia.com/~u142900356...-ArtSheet1.jpg

The cover is so big that it can't go into my scanner. If I had the
nerve to soak off this sheet, it would be considered a CTO.
Who would know the difference, since many CTOs are often
soaked in order to make believe that they were postally used?

The stamps show paintings on stamps by James Barry, Gabriel
Metsu and Jean-Antoine Watteau, that have just been exhibited
at the National Gallery of Ireland.

Apart from the documents carried in this cover, it also contained
a MNH-sheet + a prestige-booklet of the same paintings, with
full info about the paintings, the artists, and the exhibition as
such.

Mette












  #26  
Old December 10th 03, 01:10 AM
A.E. Gelat
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Further to my reply below, and after reading all the comments, I took a
second look at the sheetlet. Close examination does show minute deviations
from one block of four to another. But all that means is that the
Pre-cancel was done at a later time, not during the original printing of the
stamps. It is like an overprint, and the setting might show minor
displacements on a sheet.

Tony

"A.E. Gelat" wrote in message news:...
No, Mette, I meant that the cancellation was done at the same time as the
printing of the stamps. Take a good look at the position of the postmarks
on the stamps. There is no way that a person hand cancelling the stamps

can
place it at the same exact place four times on the sheetlet. Perhaps a
better phrase will be Pre-cancelled. This does not mean that the sheetlet
does not exist without the cancellation.

Tony

"Mette" wrote in message
...
Tony, I don't understand you. Do you mean to say that the
sheet on the cover I show is a CTO?

Mette


A.E. Gelat wrote in message
...
Close examination of the postmarks shows them perfectly centered over

four
stamps, four times in the sheetlet. This can only happen if they were
applied at the time of priming.

Tony

"Mette" wrote in message
...
Bob Ingraham wrote in message
...

- snip -

If a postal clerk cancels a stamp at the request of a customer,

the
resulting stamp is said to have been "favour cancelled". It may

look
like
a
CTO, but isn't.

Good point, Bob. A couple of months ago I received this impressive
expres-cover from Ireland, franked with a whole sheet of AnPost's
latest art issue. The cover is cancelled on 11th October 2003, in
Baile Atha Cliath, Ireland.

http://w1.1429.telia.com/~u142900356...-ArtSheet1.jpg

The cover is so big that it can't go into my scanner. If I had the
nerve to soak off this sheet, it would be considered a CTO.
Who would know the difference, since many CTOs are often
soaked in order to make believe that they were postally used?

The stamps show paintings on stamps by James Barry, Gabriel
Metsu and Jean-Antoine Watteau, that have just been exhibited
at the National Gallery of Ireland.

Apart from the documents carried in this cover, it also contained
a MNH-sheet + a prestige-booklet of the same paintings, with
full info about the paintings, the artists, and the exhibition as
such.

Mette














  #27  
Old December 10th 03, 02:58 AM
Rodney
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| There may be a dozen or so dusky maidens on Nauru, but definitely no
| on Pitcairn! :^)

Ummm Yes, you're right! ( I am claiming a "senior moment")
They were dusky maidens, that's about all I got right. :0(
They were from St. Vincent
and they are supposedly cancelling FDC's

..........Funny looking FDC's

see what you think..........

http://groups.msn.com/Stamps/shoebox...to&PhotoID=161





  #28  
Old December 10th 03, 09:14 AM
Tracy Barber
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Default

On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 09:58:10 +0800, "Rodney"
wrote:


| There may be a dozen or so dusky maidens on Nauru, but definitely no
| on Pitcairn! :^)

Ummm Yes, you're right! ( I am claiming a "senior moment")
They were dusky maidens, that's about all I got right. :0(
They were from St. Vincent
and they are supposedly cancelling FDC's

.........Funny looking FDC's

see what you think..........

http://groups.msn.com/Stamps/shoebox...to&PhotoID=161


Ahhh, the old "St. Vincent FDC Club" bait and swithc routine, eh?
That's probably where all Nauru and Pitcairn get their FDcs canceled!

--- :^P

Tracy Barber
  #29  
Old December 10th 03, 12:01 PM
kevin
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I don't think it is a cto, just cancelled by a very conscientious postal
worker... kk


"Mette" wrote in message
...
Tony, I don't understand you. Do you mean to say that the
sheet on the cover I show is a CTO?

Mette




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 05/12/2003


  #30  
Old December 11th 03, 02:20 AM
TC
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On Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:52:49 +0800, "Rodney"
wrote:

| In 50 years of collecting, I have never heard of Indian CTO stamps.
| There are tons of postally used - why the need for CTO? Have you
| ever seen any?


Hi Blair,
How about these?
http://groups.msn.com/Stamps/shoebox...to&PhotoID=160

If not CTO, how would one describe them?


FD Cancel? Was it printed on orcancelled?





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