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Dangerous Forgeries
I recently made a post to my blog ( http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/ ) on
the subject of forgeries. The discussion involved ancient coins, however techniques used by forgers know no artificial boundaries and can be used to reproduce either ancient or modern coins. Forgery rings in Beirut, for example, have been making deceptive imitations of ancient and modern gold coins for many years. After a short review of the subject, it discusses recent developments listreaders may be interested in: - the British Museum Forgeries - a group of very dangerous Parthian coin forgeries - surface artifacts caused by striking conditions - high resolution surface profiling instruments - surface artifacts as "fingerprints" - recent legal actions regarding forgeries sold on eBay It's my opinion that the baseline for deceptiveness is rising alarmingly. The forgeries I used to see at shows years ago (back in the days when I wrote articles on the subject for Coin World and World Coins) were mostly rather easy to spot, and only a few really challenged experts. I could catch almost anything with a good 20x magnifier and decent lighting. Today I view forgeries aimed at deceiving collectors (as opposed to cheap tourist fakes) as deceptive, very deceptive, dangerous and very dangerous. It's getting to be difficult for a dealer to spot them in the bustle of a coin show. Even cheap "Slaveys" can become dangerous with artificial wear and a convincing false patina. Despite some opinions to the effect that forgeries are becoming so good as to be undetectable, I do not believe that this is the case. With enough close scrutiny there will always be details that betray the forgery. The day this ceases to be true will be sad not only for coin collectors but for everyone, since the same techniques that make forged collector coins undetectable will also make counterfeit coins undetectable. If coins can be counterfeited undetectably, what about currency? Flooding our banking system with undetectable counterfeit money would cause utter financial chaos. Fortunately even the best efforts of the Nazi German regime and the current North Korean regime to do this failed, even though the resources available to a government with its own currency printing operations were used. Dave Welsh Classical Coins www.classicalcoins.com |
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#2
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Dangerous Forgeries
Dave Welsh wrote:
I recently made a post to my blog ( http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/ ) on the subject of forgeries. ... It's my opinion that the baseline for deceptiveness is rising alarmingly. The forgeries I used to see at shows years ago ... were mostly rather easy to spot, and ... Today I view forgeries aimed at deceiving collectors... With enough close scrutiny there will always be details that betray the forgery. Dave, thanks for this and thanks for your website. I would amplify your warnings by pointing out that you only spotted the forgeries you spotted. Of course, I understand what you meant, but the fact is that every collector is an expert at some level and every expert has their limits. Two rounds of Bulgarian fake Apollonians fooled the usual expert dealers who did not look closely enough at them. Even when the truth came out, people got bogged down in atomic absorption studies and other irrelevancies. (That "atomic authentication" proof was also suggested for the putative "Western Assay Bars.") The only way to know a fake is to know the genuine material. The genuine example is the standard. We still have to do a close enough comparison at some level. As you note, as the forgers' finesse improves, we need a closer and closer look. You easily state that you could always spot a fake with a close examination under 20-power. I do not look at _anything_ that closely. So, I would be fooled -- as are most other collectors and as are many dealers -- which is why we all rely on the expertise of standard-bearers like you. Even so, you only tagged the phonies you could tag. That is a paradox. You do not know -- you CANNOT know -- about the ones that fooled even you. Such must exist. The problem is that if you -- or any other dealer -- says "I am often tricked by fakes" that does not stand up so well in the marketplace. Yet, that truth is unarguable. (Another paradox exists in unarguable statements.) It is an easy claim that every dealer has fallen for fakes. That is what makes it so damaging to the hobby when a collector declares that only a little study is necessary to spot counterfeits and therefore counterfeits are NOT destructive to the hobby, but are collectible in their own right. |
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Dangerous Forgeries
Mike Marotta wrote:
That is what makes it so damaging to the hobby when a collector declares that only a little study is necessary to spot counterfeits and therefore counterfeits are NOT destructive to the hobby, but are collectible in their own right. ......but Mike, they ARE collectable in their own right and demonstrably so. You typically mix the issues involved into one hammer pounding session and as a consequence diminish the credibility of any point you might be trying to make. Are all counterfeits dangerous? Possibly, but no more so than any other generality, (including this one). Are some dangerous? No doubt about it. All dangerous / destructive? In a simple word, no.....unless the hobbyist is totally brain dead that is. It is good to see people with Dave's obvious knowledge and status in the coin community adding his weight to what many people have been saying for quite some time about the quality of forgeries making their appearance on the market (not only in relation to `ancients'). The need to maintain vigilance is incumbent upon the dealer as well as the collector. There is a need for sharing of data concerning the attribution characteristics of the fakes rather than (as has happened in the past) keeping such information in an ivory tower. Ian |
#4
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Dangerous Forgeries
"Dave Welsh" wrote in message news:q98Vf.361$up2.208@fed1read07... [text snipped] Dave, this was an excellent article, and many thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. An old adage comes to mind: "If you don't know your coins, then know your dealer." I wonder how many dealers, even though they may be quite astute by the standards of the 20th century, engage in any kind of continuing-education activities which will keep their awareness up-to-date. I'm thinking of the Chinese "Auto" dollar, for example. Twenty years ago, the majority of world coin dealers and collectors could spot a fake example of one of these from across the room. Today there are some extremely deceptive examples about. We see them in online auctions every day. Is it becoming so much harder for the "average" world coin dealer to keep up with all the different fakes of all kinds that are out there, to the point where everyone has to become a specialist? Mr. Jaggers |
#5
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Dangerous Forgeries
In , on 03/25/2006
at 01:55 PM, Ian said: Are some dangerous? No doubt about it. All dangerous / destructive? In a simple word, no.....unless the hobbyist is totally brain dead that is. And there we have Mike! Which is why he's a star (but not "the star") of my killfile. So much verbage with so little value. It is good to see people with Dave's obvious knowledge and status in the coin community adding his weight to what many people have been saying Dave also posts much verbage. And I read some of it, lost interested midway (although he did manage to get me worried, some) ... but I saw the reference to Parthian coins. So I bit, and followed the link. Doing so, I came across another vague reference to Parthian coins (and no additional info, except for a link). So, I followed the link, only to find that you have to have a yahoo login. Well, I do! So I logged in. Only to find that the referenced Yahoo group is private/members-only. That, and the page had no hints at all as to how one might "join". With so much information online, and a great much of it worthless, it's frustrating when something with potential peaks my interest, but all paths lead to dead ends. I have a genuine interest, and personal dollars at stake. I just don't have time to chase thousands of words only to find a dead end. Nick - Collector of only "genuine", non-dangerous fakes |
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Dangerous Forgeries
"Nick Knight" wrote in message
... In , on 03/25/2006 .... Dave also posts much verbage. A lot of readers want that background material. You can always skip what's not interesting for you. And I read some of it, lost interested midway (although he did manage to get me worried, some) ... but I saw the reference to Parthian coins. So I bit, and followed the link.... For anyone who could not access the images here is another link: http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakeobv.JPG http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakerev.JPG There was a long subsequent discussion in Iranica-L about these forgeries, the current state of the art in forgeries, and their detection. It has been compiled by Tom Mallon-McCorgray and may be viewed at http://www.grifterrec.com/y/parthia-...nts/a-w_1.html Dave Welsh Classical Coins www.classicalcoins.com |
#7
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Dangerous Forgeries
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... "Dave Welsh" wrote in message news:q98Vf.361$up2.208@fed1read07... [text snipped] Dave, this was an excellent article, and many thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. .... Today there are some extremely deceptive examples about. We see them in online auctions every day. Is it becoming so much harder for the "average" world coin dealer to keep up with all the different fakes of all kinds that are out there, to the point where everyone has to become a specialist? Well, I am a specialist. So I can't really speak for anyone who thinks of himself as a generalist. My area of expertise is ancient coins, though I suppose there is still some residual knowledge of US series forgeries from my days at Willoughby's years ago. In the field of ancient coins it is simply impossible for the "average dealer" to keep abreast of the latest developments in forgeries and how to detect them. The "average dealer" in ancient coins is a small operation. There are not very many big ancient coin dealers who can maintain a staff of experts. The only reliable approach I know for dealing with deceptive forgeries is to find die matches and then closely examine the suspect coin vs.the genuine coin. In the case of a really dangerous forgery, you must have a high quality cast of the genuine coin, or the original to compare it with. In a show or auction environment, it's impossible of course to carry out such research. Despite that, I buy very few forgeries. I have a "sixth sense" about forgeries and when there's a question in my mind I pass on the coin. No doubt I pass on many genuine coins, but I long ago learned that I can't buy every coin that's for sale. Dave Welsh Classical Coins www.classicalcoins.com |
#8
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Dangerous Forgeries
Dave Thank you for the article, it would be interesting to hear about
your thoughts on The Bavarian school of forgerys and the Toronto group. I had a strong interest in Consintine coins wanted to collect them but got scared off when I started to do some reading and saw how now even very common low cost coins are being forged. |
#9
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Dangerous Forgeries
Dave,
Are you arguing that these forgeries are all die struck from newly-engraved dies? Or that some are cast from genuine coins? Or some of each? One in particular is very crude and looks like a tourist copy, but others seem to be casts and some appear genuine from the posted scans. Of course I cannot see the edges and don't know what the weights are. Bob Leonard |
#10
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Dangerous Forgeries
In lFqVf.417$up2.415@fed1read07, on 03/25/2006
at 10:38 PM, "Dave Welsh" said: A lot of readers want that background material. You can always skip what's not interesting for you. As I previously stated, I did just that, thanks. For anyone who could not access the images here is another link: http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakeobv.JPG http://www3.sympatico.ca/faghfoury/fakerev.JPG There was a long subsequent discussion in Iranica-L about these forgeries, the current state of the art in forgeries, and their detection. It has been compiled by Tom Mallon-McCorgray and may be viewed at http://www.grifterrec.com/y/parthia-...nts/a-w_1.html Excellent! Links that work are are very direct. Unfortunately, I'm NOT an expert on Parthian coins, only an enthusiast. And, every single one of my coins looks just like one pictured! Yikes. I suppose I can feel better knowing that I've chased, mostly, the "inexpensive" pieces. Still, it is worrisome. Thanks for the finer detail. My interested is again peaked. Nick |
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