1922 No D Lincoln Somebody got burned on this one...

Ira wrote:
I did as well as send a note to the seller, but by that time auction
was over. I doubt they, eBay, will do anything. When you report a
fraudulent auction, they leave only space for the item no. I doubt they
know Jack Schitt about what a real 1922 No D looks like!

I tried to get around the problem the counterfeit report has by sending
in a buyer report of a counterfeit. It leaves a little room to write
what the problem is. I provided links that they could check in a
minute's time -- this was fraudulent glass, which is much easier than
coins. As normal, I got a form response and the auction went on.

Sometimes I wish eBay would hire one expert in every category and
listen to him/her when a fake is reported. It might hurt their bottom
line, but it would protect their customers. In the case of coins, the
bottom line wouldn't be affected much. Sellers may hype their products,
but I don't see that many fakes, considering the huge number of coins
sold. Other categories, e.g. jewelry, electronics, old art glass, would
shrink considerably. Some sellers make a living marketing forgeries.

Anita

Ira wrote:

I did as well as send a note to the seller, but by that time auction
was over. I doubt they, eBay, will do anything. When you report a
fraudulent auction, they leave only space for the item no. I doubt they
know Jack Schitt about what a real 1922 No D looks like!

A while back someone posted a link to an eBay report form for coin
auctions that does have room for an explanation. I bookmarked it and
suggest that everyone else do the same.

The link to the page is incredibly long so I have used
makeashortlink.com for the URL that follows. Doubleclock or copy and
paste this link, sign in and then bookmark the page when it comes up:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?R22735FDC

I think it's a lost cause, Anita. I believe, from my perspective, that
eBay pays lip service to the so-called Buyer protection. Most times
they do NOTHING when frauds are reported, and crooked sellers seem to
operate with impunity. eBay lost lots of quality sellers by raising
their reserve fees to onerous levels, and the percentage of business I
do on eBay has dropped dramatically, because generally, I won't pay
their 1% reserve fees, particularly for the items I generally offer.

I'm partcularly frustrated with eBay over a PayPal situation now. A
$6112 coin I sold on eBay Nov. 2 was just chargedback against me.
That is, PayPal withdrew that amount out of my checking account and
turned it over to the credit card company that buyer used when he
bought the coin. Buyer claimed it was an unauthorized charge. I
provided proof of delivery, a tracking no. that could be checked online
and a link to the positive feednack left by the buyer. None of that
mattered, Finally, after the police in buyer's home town brought him in
for questioning about this sitiuation, he admitted he bought the coin
but he sold it at a loss. He then contacted PayPal and told them that
AMEX told him to do a chargeback (since he hadn't been making monthly
payments to them) and they would just collect from PayPal. Now, after
he has communicated to PayPal tht he has revoked his chargeback PayPal
informs me that the matter is up to the credit card company, and if
they decide not to return my money, that decision is final.

eBay, owner of PayPal, frankly protects neither buyer nor seller. I
suppose if a small amount is involved they MAY offer some small amount
of $$ protection, but on larger amounts, they wash their hands of it.

Best advice, KNOW your seller!

Ira

I wouldn`t buy a 22 plain anymore since I know how easily one can be
created...Long ago when I was not the nice person I am today (I have
long since reformed my evil ways) I spent about a month erasing the D
from a 22 and making sure the surface was uniformly
worn/nicked/scratched/etc then recolored it using some sort of coin
darkener..I mixed it in with a friends Dansco album of Lincolns and we
got some dealer at a show to offer us an amount for the set that shows
he obviously thought there was a 22 plain included...In choice BU or
something maybe it might be more safe..But in good-fine I`d be real
skeptical of ANY 22 plain
On a related matter I saw a 1916 D mercury dime on Ebay recently
where it looked like someone had photo-shoped the D onto it..The coin
was like AG but it had a nice sharp D which extended even into the
heavily worn edge area...LOL

heaved the following thought off the truck:
On a related matter I saw a 1916 D mercury dime on Ebay recently
where it looked like someone had photo-shoped the D onto it..The coin
was like AG but it had a nice sharp D which extended even into the
heavily worn edge area...LOL

Ha! Yep, some idiot that would do that is hoping that another of his ilk
will happen by shortly. ;-)

Señor Amistad
'they're out there!'

"Ira" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think it's a lost cause, Anita. I believe, from my perspective, that
eBay pays lip service to the so-called Buyer protection. Most times
they do NOTHING when frauds are reported, and crooked sellers seem to
operate with impunity. eBay lost lots of quality sellers by raising
their reserve fees to onerous levels, and the percentage of business I
do on eBay has dropped dramatically, because generally, I won't pay
their 1% reserve fees, particularly for the items I generally offer.

I'm partcularly frustrated with eBay over a PayPal situation now. A
$6112 coin I sold on eBay Nov. 2 was just chargedback against me.
That is, PayPal withdrew that amount out of my checking account and
turned it over to the credit card company that buyer used when he
bought the coin. Buyer claimed it was an unauthorized charge. I
provided proof of delivery, a tracking no. that could be checked online
and a link to the positive feednack left by the buyer. None of that
mattered, Finally, after the police in buyer's home town brought him in
for questioning about this sitiuation, he admitted he bought the coin
but he sold it at a loss. He then contacted PayPal and told them that
AMEX told him to do a chargeback (since he hadn't been making monthly
payments to them) and they would just collect from PayPal. Now, after
he has communicated to PayPal tht he has revoked his chargeback PayPal
informs me that the matter is up to the credit card company, and if
they decide not to return my money, that decision is final.

eBay, owner of PayPal, frankly protects neither buyer nor seller. I
suppose if a small amount is involved they MAY offer some small amount
of $$ protection, but on larger amounts, they wash their hands of it.

Best advice, KNOW your seller!

Ira


I had a similar situation a while back but for much less money. After Paypal
gave back the money, I got an email from the buyer thanking me for the free
coin. Paypal never responded when I sent that email to them.

Ira wrote:
....
I'm partcularly frustrated with eBay over a PayPal situation now. A
$6112 coin I sold on eBay Nov. 2 was just chargedback against me...

Ira, your story hurt to read. It is a lot of money to lose to fraud.
The best I hope now is that AMEX refunds the money. I wish it weren't
so expensive to file a claim against a large corporation.

The increase in fees has been perplexing. Things sell cheap on eBay, so
there's not a lot of profit. Sellers pretty much end up working for
eBay and maybe end up with a small profit. I've wondered how you could
afford to put your coins on market. Fees for things that don't sell in
a couple of weeks really cut into the money. Some things take a while
to sell. There is a limited market of people who can afford them.

The only thing a seller can do, I suppose, is to attach their PayPal
account to a small checking account that has no money, and a credit
card with a very small limit. I'm sorry that this happened to you and I
hope that the money comes back. There's a lot of money and anger tied
up in it, I know. Thanks for mentioning it. There's probably a lot of
sellers who need to think of ways to keep charge companies, e.g.
PayPal, out of their pockets.

I wonder what the new gBay services are like. I think that is what the
Google buying service is called. Has anyone tried it? I hope they build
a better buyer/seller protection program.

Anita

A 1922 No D is not really easy to fake UNLESS the "mark" doesn't know
hat the onveese diagnostics ore on the strong reverse 1922 No D. "In
God We" is NEVER sharp, only the word TRUST is sharp but with thin
letters. The last "2" in the date in much weaker and thinner than the
first "2" and the edge of Lincoln's coat merges with the field on
genuine pieces. Also the L of LIBERTY touches the left rim. These
diagnostics are not present on 1922-Ds in which the mintmark has ben
removed.

That said, I daresay 50% or more of all raw specimens, wheher in
collector's albums or in a dealer's stock, are altered. Most common
alteration is actually a 1922 weak D Die Pair 1 where the faint D has
been burnshed off and coin recolored. This will have a NON-jogging die
crack thru the O of ONE on rev. Since Die Pair 1 has a much stronger
reverse than Die pair 3, it's a dangerous and deceptive alteration.

If you want one, just buy it certified by one of the top 3.

Ira

Phil DeMayo wrote:
....
A while back someone posted a link to an eBay report form for coin
auctions that does have room for an explanation. I bookmarked it and
suggest that everyone else do the same.
....
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R22735FDC

Phil, I've used this link. It was the one I was talking about earlier
in this thread. The results were the same as the counterfeit link,
unfortunately.

What is reported has a lot of bearing, it seems. When 1893-S Morgans
are reported, there is a better chance of removing the auction than
some of the other coins, it seems. Maybe they have quicker access to a
1893-S expert? Hard to tell.

Anita

On 28 Mar 2006 15:57:56 -0800, wrote:
I wouldn`t buy a 22 plain anymore since I know how easily one can be
created...Long ago when I was not the nice person I am today (I have
long since reformed my evil ways) I spent about a month erasing the D
from a 22 and making sure the surface was uniformly
worn/nicked/scratched/etc then recolored it using some sort of coin
darkener..I mixed it in with a friends Dansco album of Lincolns and we
got some dealer at a show to offer us an amount for the set that shows
he obviously thought there was a 22 plain included...In choice BU or
something maybe it might be more safe..But in good-fine I`d be real
skeptical of ANY 22 plain

Well, the front to back wear mismatch should be an easy thing to spot,
and even in good-fine there's going to be the usual diagnostic signs
visible, aren't there?

On a related matter I saw a 1916 D mercury dime on Ebay recently
where it looked like someone had photo-shoped the D onto it..The coin
was like AG but it had a nice sharp D which extended even into the
heavily worn edge area...LOL

The mint mark on mercs is the first thing to go when the rims aren't
full. I'm with Ira (and lots of others) on this one - something like
that, you buy from someone you know and trust, and/or slabbed by one of
the big-3.