ANGRY ABOUT EBAY POLICY ON PCI COINS

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 10:12 pm, wrote:

You could not force your corner grocery store to carry a particular
brand of milk, especially if the dairy association had something to do
with them not carrying it...

-Alfred

Ebay is not a store. You are the store. No one can tell you, the
store, what you may or may not sell
in your own store, provided it is not against the law. There is no
law against selling a PCI or SEGS
slab, nor a law that a coin collector cannot grade his own coins and
price them.
__________

Ebay is the website you are selecting to auction your coins. You may be a
store in your home town. Ebay doesn't give a ****. Ebay is the "store"
here. You are a tenant. Ebay has established guidelines to protect
itself and its other users. Those "tenants" who use Ebay as an auction
forum agree to abide by its house rules. Just like in the outside world,
none of eBay's house rules says you can't list a PCI- or SEGS-slabbed coin
for auction there.

Nor do any rules say you can't grade your own coins and price them. What
the rules DO specify are guidelines as to how to list coins such as a
PCI-graded one. Reading these rules, you would learn not to mention PCI
or a numerical grade in the title or text. You can let your photo of the
slab speak for that. And of course the coin itself.

As for a price, who cares what price you may place on it? Unless you make
that price your minimum or reserve, you're using the auction route here.
The bidders will decide what it's worth. You don't like that? Fine,
stick it back in your showcase with its price sticker and dust it off
every two years. But with eBay, you're still free to slap your price
sticker on the slab and have it plainly visible in your photo. Happy now?
Is there any other possible explanation that will keep you from feeling
persecuted and denied on eBay? Are you really this dense and able to
survive in business?
___________

But ebay is trying to tell you WHICH BRANDS you cannot sell..
___________

Sigh......... Frank, they want your money. They spell out very clearly
how you can describe and list WHATEVER you want to sell.
_____________

They are telling you that you can't grade your own coins, or put a
value on them.
____________

Where, Frank. Where? Where? Exactly where are they are they telling
you that?
_____________

That's why they are violating the law.
_____________

Then sue their friggin' ass or please, please shut the hell up and sell
your sh__ out of your basement!



Frank appears to have the reading comprehension of a two year
old.................chimpanzee.

I very much doubt if he will understand any explanation posted here as to
how he can prevent having his auctions cancelled by ebay.

It's very simple for just about everyone except Frank, the eternal victim.
Billy

On Jan 22, 9:32*am, "note.boy" wrote:

Frank appears to have the reading comprehension of a two year
old.................chimpanzee.

I very much doubt if he will understand any explanation posted here as to
how he can prevent having his auctions cancelled by ebay.

It's very simple for just about everyone except Frank, the eternal victim.
Billy-

Not to mention that Frank's never-ending whining causes people to
report any of his infractions of eBay regs, which in turn leads to
more whining from Frank, which leads to more people reporting... You
get the picture.

On Jan 21, 11:03*pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:


Ebay is the website you are selecting to auction your coins. *You may be a
store in your home town. *Ebay doesn't give a ****. *Ebay is the "store"
here. *You are a tenant. *Ebay has established guidelines to protect itself
and its other users. * Those "tenants" who use Ebay as an auction forum
agree to abide by its house rules. *Just like in the outside world, none of
eBay's house rules says you can't list a PCI- or SEGS-slabbed coin for
auction there.

Ebay is not the store. When you buy ON ebay you do not send the money
TO
ebay, you send it to the SELLER. Ebay merely sells advertising. And
they
can block certain CLASSES of ads if they so choose...guns, porn, etc.

BUT THEY CANNOT MAKE CERTAIN BRAND NAMES (PCI, SEGS)
LIST UNDER DIFFERENT TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAN OTHER BRAND NAMES
(PCGS, and NGC)
WHILE CHARGING THE SAME MONEY FOR THE LISTING!!!!


IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

It's called restraint of trade, and IT IS A CRIME!!

And "good intentions" to "protect people" is looked at very
skeptically by government prosecutors. The assumption is,
unless proven otherwise, that it's always about the money, it's
always about restricting competition, it's always about putting
less-favored players out of business.





Nor do any rules say you can't grade your own coins and price them.

Then why have DOZENS of my auctions been cancelled this weeked? Why
can't I quote
a catalog value for a government sealed set? Why can't I mention the
face value in a mint set?
Why have dozens of coin jewelry items been pulled?

THIS IS AN ATTACK ON ME!


It is a service to my customers which I have done for many years.
Most auction catalogs
give a retail or estimate of the value to guide bidders. There is
nothing wrong with this. Ebay's
stupid jerk employees are misinterpreting the rules. They were only
meant to keep people from
mentioning the PCGS price guide values when selling crap slabs. They
were NEVER intended to
stop honest dealers from providing information on the items they sell.

I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHO IS DOING THIS TO ME!!!

On Jan 22, 1:17*pm, Frank Provasek wrote:
THIS IS AN ATTACK ON ME!

Frank, it would seem you are suffering from paranoid delusions of
persecution and quite possibly delusions of grandeur.

I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHO IS DOING THIS TO ME!!!

eBay is doing "this" to you. "This" being making you abide by their
regulations.

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
...
On Jan 21, 11:03 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:


Ebay is the website you are selecting to auction your coins. You may be a
store in your home town. Ebay doesn't give a ****. Ebay is the "store"
here. You are a tenant. Ebay has established guidelines to protect itself
and its other users. Those "tenants" who use Ebay as an auction forum
agree to abide by its house rules. Just like in the outside world, none of
eBay's house rules says you can't list a PCI- or SEGS-slabbed coin for
auction there.

Ebay is not the store. When you buy ON ebay you do not send the money
TO
ebay, you send it to the SELLER. Ebay merely sells advertising. And
they
can block certain CLASSES of ads if they so choose...guns, porn, etc.
___________

Ever visit one of those big antique markets where hundreds of dealer set
up to sell their wares? That's a "store" just like eBay. They make rules
that dealers who want to set up have to abide by. You don't pay the "store"
here either. You pay the individual dealer who then pays the "store",
depending on how the contract is drawn. Sound at all familiar?


BUT THEY CANNOT MAKE CERTAIN BRAND NAMES (PCI, SEGS)
LIST UNDER DIFFERENT TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAN OTHER BRAND NAMES
(PCGS, and NGC)
WHILE CHARGING THE SAME MONEY FOR THE LISTING!!!!
_______________

Wanna bet?
_______________


IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

It's called restraint of trade, and IT IS A CRIME!!
_________________

I told you. If you feel so strong about it, sue their ass. Or else
shut the hell up!
_________________

And "good intentions" to "protect people" is looked at very
skeptically by government prosecutors. The assumption is,
unless proven otherwise, that it's always about the money, it's
always about restricting competition, it's always about putting
less-favored players out of business.
_________________

Depends on what your meaning of "it's" is.
__________________

Nor do any rules say you can't grade your own coins and price them.

Then why have DOZENS of my auctions been cancelled this weeked?
__________

Because you apparently violated the store's rules. Have you ever
bothered to check?
____________

Why can't I quote a catalog value for a government sealed set? Why can't I
mention the
face value in a mint set?
________________

Because the store says you can't, unless it's slabbed by one of the
approved TPG's. Why do you always feel the need to pull the lion's tail?
Are you providing a service to bidders who can't tell the face value of the
coins your selling? As for the coins themselves, the bidders will tell you
what the value is. You don't tell them.
__________________

Why have dozens of coin jewelry items been pulled?

THIS IS AN ATTACK ON ME!
___________________

No comment.
__________________

It is a service to my customers which I have done for many years.
Most auction catalogs
give a retail or estimate of the value to guide bidders. There is
nothing wrong with this. Ebay's
stupid jerk employees are misinterpreting the rules. They were only
meant to keep people from
mentioning the PCGS price guide values when selling crap slabs. They
were NEVER intended to
stop honest dealers from providing information on the items they sell.

I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF WHO IS DOING THIS TO ME!!!
__________________

Oh, boy................ it's happened. He's gone totally Caps Lock on us.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:17:38 -0800 (PST), Frank Provasek
wrote:

BUT THEY CANNOT MAKE CERTAIN BRAND NAMES (PCI, SEGS)
LIST UNDER DIFFERENT TERMS AND CONDITIONS THAN OTHER BRAND NAMES
(PCGS, and NGC)
WHILE CHARGING THE SAME MONEY FOR THE LISTING!!!!

IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

Evidently, for you. They are not making brand names list under
different terms and conditions. They are making sellers adhere to
certain terms and conditions in advertising objects...coins, in this
case.

The terms and conditions are that the use of the word "certified" , or
any reference to certification, can only be applied to objects when
the certifier is adjudged to be responsibly providing objective
valuation to the object. Since a alpha-numerical grade is a statement
of valuation for this type of object, only certifiers that have shown
reasonable objectivity are approved.

They've also required other terms and conditions like the wording of
titles, text, and the number of images.



--

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Jan 22, 1:08*pm, tony cooper wrote:


Evidently, for you. *They are not making brand names list under
different terms and conditions. *They are making sellers adhere to
certain terms and conditions in advertising objects...coins, in this
case.

As Deven Atkinson used to say "Market Grading is about creating
markets, and not about grading"

The grading services are businesses promoting their BRAND NAMES. Try
saying something good
about NGC on the PCGS website and see how long before you get booted!
David Hall might even chime in
say that "This board is not to promote other BRANDS of grading
companies"

SEGS and PCI are approved for trading not only on the CCE, but have
been listed in the Greysheet and Priced
in the Bluesheet "Certified Coin Dealer Newsletter" for over a
decade.

Ebay relied on a non scientific survey of the biggest dealers, members
of the Professional Numismatists
Guild, who don't deal in "second tier" slabs. Naturally, they had
low opinions of SEGS and PCI, since they
have no financial interest in those companies. OF the 4 "approved"
grading companies, only ANACS does
not have direct ties to huge coin retailers (PCGS to David Hall Rare
Coins, NGC to Heritage with 25% ownership, and ICG to the National
Gold Exchange of Tampa)

Just like stockbrokers and investment advisors who are much more
interested in selling something that they
have a financial interest in (IPO's where their company is offering
the original issue, or "load" mutual funds)

You may think the grading services are out to "protect the collector"
but the importance of the avarage collector is minimal compared to
"creating a market" for expensive coins beyond the reach of the casual
collector.





The terms and conditions are that the use of the word "certified" , or
any reference to certification, can only be applied to objects when
the certifier is adjudged to be responsibly providing objective
valuation to the object. *Since a alpha-numerical grade is a statement
of valuation for this type of object, only certifiers that have shown
reasonable objectivity are approved.


Alphanumeric grades have been used by the ANA since 1977, and since
1988 there have been
no official "adjective grades" for Mint State coins. MS63 is an
official ANA grade, Choice Uncirculated is not.
There is no requirement that a coin has to be certified by any company
to properly use the official
ANA grades. In fact, ANA dealers are required to do so for raw coins.
Putting restictions on the use of these
terms is counterproductive, and just adds to the unhealthy attitude
(promoted by the grading services) that
unless a coin is entombed in plastic "there must be something wrong
with it."


Nobody has found that companies such as SEGS (operated by Larry
Briggs) and PCI (by J.T. Stanton until recently) are anything except
totally above board. In fact, SEGS has given out only a handful of 70
grades.

Anyone who continues to argue that these new ebay policies are about
ANYTHING other than concentrating
market share among the existing big players probably believes "I'm
from the government and I'm here to help"

Another thing, Some of you seem proud that you got the auctions of a
quadaplegic cancelled for listing his PCI $20 gold coins. Mocking a
guy who types with a stick in his mouth for using all caps... That's
got to be the lowest of the low. How do you people sleep at night?
You should be ashamed.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:50:19 -0800 (PST), Frank Provasek
wrote:

SEGS and PCI are approved for trading not only on the CCE, but have
been listed in the Greysheet and Priced
in the Bluesheet "Certified Coin Dealer Newsletter" for over a
decade.

Neither can be sold at all on Teletrade....why aren't you up in arms
about that?

At least eBay still allows SEGS and PCI slabbed coins to be sold. They
just have a few simple to follow rules that must be adhered to when
doing so.

At least "simple to follow" for most of us.

On Jan 22, 2:50*pm, Frank Provasek wonders:

How do you people sleep at night?

I sleep just fine, thanks for asking.
I guess you don't, what with your delusions of persecution and all.

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 20:21:21 -0800 (PST), Frank Provasek wrote:

Ebay is not a store. You are the store. No one can tell you, the
store, what you may or may not sell
in your own store, provided it is not against the law.

You may be the "store", but they are the "landlord". If they don't want
you opening up a strip club in their building, they can stop you from
doing it.

There is no
law against selling a PCI or SEGS
slab, nor a law that a coin collector cannot grade his own coins and
price them.

And, there is no rule on eBay saying you can't sell PCI, SEGS, or
self-graded coins.

As you must know, this is all a result of people posting auctions from
unknown/suspect graders, listing them as "EIEIO graded as MS-70" and
then listing the greysheet value from PCGS or whomever, as if it had
_anything_ to do with EIEIO's grading.

But ebay is trying to tell you WHICH BRANDS you cannot sell..

Really. Why don't you show us the specific language that says I can't
sell this SEGS slabbed VG-10 seated liberty quarter I have. B ecause I
seem to have missed the part where I can't sell it on eBay. Educate us
all, Frank. Show us the specific language.

They are telling you that you can't grade your own coins, or put a
value on them.

See previous show us.

That's why they are violating the law.

Which law, specifically, Frank?

You know, it's funny in a sad way. When eBay showed their remarkable
idiocy and ignorance in regards to gun parts and accessories, (I can't
sell a screw on eBay that's for a gun, for instance, or "bullet tips"
whatever that means), the firearms community flocked to auctionarms and
gunbroker, both sites have done quite well as a result of eBay's bad
decision. Imagine if you'd exert your effort into a niche market
auction site, rather than trying to tell your landlord that you should
be allowed to run a strip joint on their property.

And yet somehow, I don't expect you to see my point. Surprise me,
Frank. See if you can do the logic thing, just once.