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#11
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On 2004-09-30 21:31:30 -0700, no spam said:
David wrote: On 2004-09-29 21:03:22 -0700, no spam said: I wouldn't worry too much then - any brand of ink that doesn't advertise itself as permanent, will probably fit your recycling concerns. Just pick one that has good light-fastness, and you'll be set. Exactly my point ! What are the inks out there in blue and red that are considered lightfast (and possibly bright) ? Did you read the sunlight tests page at inksampler.com? |
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#12
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On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 04:07:57 GMT, no spam said:
no If everybody starts using an ink that can never be washed out no regardless of the chimical used, then my guess is that it will no be difficult to re-use that paper for recyling. if everyone starts using such inks (which is doubtful), then the different colours will tend to turn the batch of recycling gook grey -- which is pretty much what recycled paper looks like anyway. i think you're worrying too much. -- A squid eating DOUGH in a POLYETHYLENE bag is fast and BULBOUS. |
#13
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David wrote:
What are the inks out there in blue and red that are considered lightfast (and possibly bright) ? Did you read the sunlight tests page at inksampler.com? I was hopping that there was some consensus on this sort of thing on the news group. Yes I check, it seems really good for reds, but scary for blues ! I think I won't be able to find The only brand that has an excellent rating for blue, locally... Yves. ---- Yves Dorfsman http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay http://www.SollerS.ca |
#14
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Bluesea wrote:
If you're still set on not using Noodler's, I think your best bet is to follow David's link to inksampler.com. Don't get me wrong, I do intend to use Noodler's for specific applications (art, legal documents, etc...), but would rather something less permanent for everyday use. Yves. ---- http://www.cuug.ab.ca/dorfsmay http://www.SollerS.ca |
#15
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On 2004-10-01 21:29:37 -0700, no spam said:
was hopping that there was some consensus on this sort of thing on the news group. Yes I check, it seems really good for reds, but scary for blues ! I think I won't be able to find The only brand that has an excellent rating for blue, locally... Blue ink seems not to stand up to sunlight very well in general. You may end up using black instead if you need lightfastness, since several common black inks are at least in his "very good" category. Levenger does sell on the web (levenger.com), and by mail order, if you want their ink though - shipping might be expensive for just a bottle of ink, I suppose. Because that ink has so much colour in it, it tends to clog pens more than other brands. You can't win, it seems! David |
#16
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"no spam" wrote in message news:waq7d.163056$%S.108402@pd7tw2no... Bluesea wrote: If you're still set on not using Noodler's, I think your best bet is to follow David's link to inksampler.com. Don't get me wrong, I do intend to use Noodler's for specific applications (art, legal documents, etc...), but would rather something less permanent for everyday use. No problem. I meant for this particular issue and by "Noodler's," I meant the permanent inks, not all the rest, too. Context, y'know. IOW, we be kewl . -- ~~Bluesea~~ Spam is great in musubi but not in email. Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply. |
#17
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MOST paper destined for recycling has laser print on it. Relatively permanent, fused ink. Hot lightbulb beneath document....electromagnet on top....and that "ink" flies off the page. Forgers know this all too well. |
#18
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Lattice and reverse lattice? They are two new types of inks...when mixed they have properties unlike any others - including unrivaled color fastness when balanced properly. If you treat both kinds of inks as you would other inks, and properly care for your pen - rinse them now and then, don't store the ink for years without rinsing the pen out first....EXACTLY AS THE MANUFACTURERS OF FOUNTAIN PENS ADVISE... It was a risk to get into ink - given that purists wanted an ink they could "drink" and that smelled like roses or perfume....but the practical people desired something to keep our hobby alive. In all seriousness, I believed the fountain pen as a writing instrument was quietly, slowly and inevitably - being fundamentally undermined! The most obvious sign happened to be your average college kid. When I was in college - it was relatively easy to "convert" professors and students alike to the wonders of fountain pens. Within the past five years? No chance. First: "Those things cost too much." Once upon a time a $10 tip-dip, $2 cartridge pen, or $25 admiral with a gold nib solved that concern... However, #2 was devastating: "Nathan, I know these are nice writers and all...won't fill up landfills, refill again and again, super smooth, and has a real nice solid gold nib to resist corrosion until I am 80 years old...BUT the damn ink feathers on EVERY piece of paper I use in my classes and it is just not ever going to be a daily user. Sorry." If you are a pen collector - like it or not...if EVERY college kid rejects fountain pens...the hobby WILL decline in time. It used to be "Get a nice pen in their hand for sophomore year and they are a collector during grad school.". So - lattice inks and anti-feather inks MUST be made available to the public if our hobby is to survive in my humble opinion. Feathering on recycled papers and cheaper grades such as newsprint (which is often used for exam documents/pages and most government forms) has to be countered....and forgers must be countered with lattice inks. The forger/identity fraud threat was absolutely killing fountain pens with certain people who were in the habit of signing contracts and writing terms with certain chain store inks that wash off documents with 6 to 12 seconds run under tap water....or a few minutes of bleach. Either they have confidence in the fountain pen, or they will seek out and use some other instrument! If you care to throw stones at Noodler's Ink, I hope you at least consider the alternatives we were facing before it came into being....as a long term hobby. Lastly, this does not even mention the inks that have NOT been introduced to the public. Glow in the dark "Nigh****chman's Ink" will not be introduced because it reacts badly with other manufacturer's inks - if mixed even slightly with residues from their inks, this particular ink fails in its primary property (it must glow 100 hours per 1/2 hour charge of sunlight - repeatedly, and be clearly visible to the naked eye both in the dark and in various artificial and natural light sources). It is also completely unlike any ink ever made before, and until it gets long term testing behind it - Noodler's Ink will not release it. There are members of the public who would cast dispersions upon such a prototype ink before it was even given a chance...so I'm not giving them a bottle to do so with until/unless it is immunized. It is too different - if you saw a bottle (one pictured next to prototype water based white ink) you would know what I mean. http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/glow/whiteGlow.jpg The Luddites would also seek to besmirch any of the white, pastel, and pearlized inks (green pearl, true gray pearl, rose pearl are shown in the following picture - they were made because of their visual effects in visuated pens...a transparent pen has the appearance of having 1930s pearltex effects - as well as having true pastel effects on the written page) http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/marbled/marbledInk.jpg - which similarly are in long term testing before they will ever be released to the public (different feeds, different mixes with other company's inks, as many variables as possible need to be accounted for - or somebody online somewhere will say: "My such and such does not like the white ink."...I want to avoid that!). Perhaps a lack of confidence after realizing how severe the public can be - but now certainly necessary - as such inks must stand up to some pretty nasty perpetual critics. As for washable inks and inks that "you can drink"...if you want dye contents that low, don't buy Noodler's. Period. Noodler's is going to continue to pack as much value in dye content and permanence as is possible for a water based fountain pen ink (with NO salts and NO crystalline acids!)...& with no weak low dye content washable inks contemplated.... Noodler's will also continue to make it's black ink (and other lattice inks such as "eternal" and "contract") as fraud proof as is possible for a fountain pen ink - if you want a weak black that feathers on recycled paper and newsprint - buy something else! I'm sorry that it is not possible to please everyone......but the efforts to help the hobby, and the viability of the fountain pen itself...will continue. Also...no need to shake! If when the bottle is finished, the bottom looks like the bottom of a finished 1950s style ink bottle...it's normal. It's not normal if you add contaminants such as salts to the ink...don't do that! Also, cap the bottle soon after filling - it is NOT "tap water" that makes the ink...it is beyond distilled - the most purified one can make with today's technology. Otherwise the dye contents would be lower ratios due to "other" substances getting in the way that don't belong in ink anyway. So, if you left the bottle cap off for a week long vacation - it is OK to replace the lost fluid with tap water...but in testing tap water is just not as good as distilled. It would be 90% performance instead of 100% performance. |
#19
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Lattice and reverse lattice? They are two new types of inks...when mixed they have properties unlike any others - including unrivaled color fastness when balanced properly. If you treat both kinds of inks as you would other inks, and properly care for your pen - rinse them now and then, don't store the ink for years without rinsing the pen out first....EXACTLY AS THE MANUFACTURERS OF FOUNTAIN PENS ADVISE... It was a risk to get into ink - given that purists wanted an ink they could "drink" and that smelled like roses or perfume....but the practical people desired something to keep our hobby alive. In all seriousness, I believed the fountain pen as a writing instrument was quietly, slowly and inevitably - being fundamentally undermined! The most obvious sign happened to be your average college kid. When I was in college - it was relatively easy to "convert" professors and students alike to the wonders of fountain pens. Within the past five years? No chance. First: "Those things cost too much." Once upon a time a $10 tip-dip, $2 cartridge pen, or $25 admiral with a gold nib solved that concern... However, #2 was devastating: "Nathan, I know these are nice writers and all...won't fill up landfills, refill again and again, super smooth, and has a real nice solid gold nib to resist corrosion until I am 80 years old...BUT the damn ink feathers on EVERY piece of paper I use in my classes and it is just not ever going to be a daily user. Sorry." If you are a pen collector - like it or not...if EVERY college kid rejects fountain pens...the hobby WILL decline in time. It used to be "Get a nice pen in their hand for sophomore year and they are a collector during grad school.". So - lattice inks and anti-feather inks MUST be made available to the public if our hobby is to survive in my humble opinion. Feathering on recycled papers and cheaper grades such as newsprint (which is often used for exam documents/pages and most government forms) has to be countered....and forgers must be countered with lattice inks. The forger/identity fraud threat was absolutely killing fountain pens with certain people who were in the habit of signing contracts and writing terms with certain chain store inks that wash off documents with 6 to 12 seconds run under tap water....or a few minutes of bleach. Either they have confidence in the fountain pen, or they will seek out and use some other instrument! If you care to throw stones at Noodler's Ink, I hope you at least consider the alternatives we were facing before it came into being....as a long term hobby. Lastly, this does not even mention the inks that have NOT been introduced to the public. Glow in the dark "Nigh****chman's Ink" will not be introduced because it reacts badly with other manufacturer's inks - if mixed even slightly with residues from their inks, this particular ink fails in its primary property (it must glow 100 hours per 1/2 hour charge of sunlight - repeatedly, and be clearly visible to the naked eye both in the dark and in various artificial and natural light sources). It is also completely unlike any ink ever made before, and until it gets long term testing behind it - Noodler's Ink will not release it. There are members of the public who would cast dispersions upon such a prototype ink before it was even given a chance...so I'm not giving them a bottle to do so with until/unless it is immunized. It is too different - if you saw a bottle (one pictured next to prototype water based white ink) you would know what I mean. http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/glow/whiteGlow.jpg The Luddites would also seek to besmirch any of the white, pastel, and pearlized inks (green pearl, true gray pearl, rose pearl are shown in the following picture - they were made because of their visual effects in visuated pens...a transparent pen has the appearance of having 1930s pearltex effects - as well as having true pastel effects on the written page) http://members.aol.com/scaupaug1/marbled/marbledInk.jpg - which similarly are in long term testing before they will ever be released to the public (different feeds, different mixes with other company's inks, as many variables as possible need to be accounted for - or somebody online somewhere will say: "My such and such does not like the white ink."...I want to avoid that!). Perhaps a lack of confidence after realizing how severe the public can be - but now certainly necessary - as such inks must stand up to some pretty nasty perpetual critics. As for washable inks and inks that "you can drink"...if you want dye contents that low, don't buy Noodler's. Noodler's is going to continue to pack as much value in dye content and permanence as is possible for a water based fountain pen ink (with NO salts and NO crystalline acids!)...& with no weak low dye content washable inks contemplated.... Noodler's will also continue to make it's black ink (and other lattice inks such as "eternal" and "contract") as fraud proof as is possible for a fountain pen ink - if you want a weak black that feathers on recycled paper and newsprint - buy something else! I'm sorry that it is not possible to please everyone......but the efforts to help the hobby, and the viability of the fountain pen itself...will continue. Also...no need to shake! If when the bottle is finished, the bottom looks like the bottom of a finished 1950s style ink bottle...it's normal. It's not normal if you add contaminants such as salts to the ink...don't do that! Also, cap the bottle soon after filling - it is NOT "tap water" that makes the ink...it is beyond distilled - the most purified one can make with today's technology. Otherwise the dye contents would be lower ratios due to "other" substances getting in the way that don't belong in ink anyway. So, if you left the bottle cap off for a week long vacation - it is OK to replace the lost fluid with tap water...but in testing tap water is just not as good as distilled. It would be 90% performance instead of 100% performance. |
#20
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We're not supposed to shake the ink first? I have always shaken any
small bottle of colored liquid I have been about to use, and then thumped it down to get enough off the cap to avoid making a bigger mess than usual. If we accept the principle of "If some is good, then more is better and even more would be really great' and we note that all we are really doing with all these neat pens, inks and papers is just getting pigment onto the page, then that residue left in the bottle represents a sort of failure. Couldn't I shake it some? It is true that one shouldn't throw stones at Noodler's Inks. It accomplishes nothing and gets the stone all messy. It is worthy of note, however, that the larger bottles that Noodler's employs are easier to hit. The glow in the dark ink sounds like just the thing for writing in dimly lit coffee houses. A new reason to keep those ink windows clear so the pen can be charged up during the day. If you are putting us on about the pearlized inks then you are going to wake up with a very large catfish head in your bed. What you need are beta testers. I'm sure that there must be some people who could be persuaded to take on this onerous task for the good of the cause (shipping address for ink delivery available upon the slightest of requests). You have tested your inks in Tintenkulis, haven't you? |
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