A question about postal stamps

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
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"Roger Smith" wrote in message
...

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
Roger Smith" wrote in message
...

I do not think that people in most countries in the world would go out
of their way to buy a stamp with an American flag on it.

Regards, Roger

Of course not, because in all countries minus one they won't find such
stamps for franking.

I suppose that USPS (or the US government itself) could even have a
copyright for their flag on stamps.
--
Victor Manta


Victor

I believe that it is even a criminal offence to burn a US flag. Even in
Iraq.

Regards, Roger

For sure it is, Roger, but I just wonder which is the relationship with my
or with your earlier posting? Does by chance buying stamps, with or
without flags on them, mean burning anything?

--
Victor Manta

Victor

It was just that your suggestion that the US authorities needed to
"copyright" the image of their flag to protect it led to my thought about
the length to which they seek to protect this representation of their
nationhood.

Regards, Roger

I was wondering .... do most people choose a variety of stamps ...
or do most people just buy the American Flag, sold at most
supermarkets?

And I was wondering, why is it that an American flag, flown on the fourth of
July, a crayon colored flag drawn by my child in grade school, or basically
any first order approximation of an American flag, must be disposed of in
particular approved ways, but (I'm guessing here, not watching everyone) the
flag stamp that everyone agrees is the American flag, gets thrown in the
trash, dropped on the floor, torn apart, etc., and the flag police don't throw
everyone in jail or fine them?

Roger Smith wrote:

I believe that it is even a criminal offence to burn a US flag. Even in
Iraq.

It is not a criminal offense to burn a U.S. flag in the United States;
the Supreme Court ruled in 1989 and 1990 that laws against burning the
flag were unconstitutional.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...=491&invol=397
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...s/496/310.html

I have no information about whether the laws of Iraq prohibit burning
the U.S. or Iraqi flag.

Joshua Kreitzer

And I was wondering, why is it that an American flag, flown on the fourth of
July, a crayon colored flag drawn by my child in grade school, or basically
any first order approximation of an American flag, must be disposed of in
particular approved ways,

Who says that? There is such a thing as flag ETIQUETTE, but that
isn't a law. Some states may have laws against PUBLIC flag-burning.
What law do you think will punish you if you take the flag drawn by
your child in grade school, put it in a trash bag with a bunch of other
trash, and put it out on the curb?

but (I'm guessing here, not watching everyone) the
flag stamp that everyone agrees is the American flag, gets thrown in the
trash, dropped on the floor, torn apart, etc., and the flag police don't throw
everyone in jail or fine them?

It is likely that attempting to dispose of flag stamps, or for that
matter any other paper trash, by public burning, throwing on highways,
burning it in your fireplace, or similar actions will get you in
trouble with the police for such reasons as polluting the air,
causing a fire hazard, attempted arson, littering, etc.

Gordon L. Burditt

Roger Smith" wrote in message
...
"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
"Roger Smith" wrote in message
...

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
Roger Smith" wrote in message
...

I do not think that people in most countries in the world would go out
of their way to buy a stamp with an American flag on it.

Regards, Roger

Of course not, because in all countries minus one they won't find such
stamps for franking.

I suppose that USPS (or the US government itself) could even have a
copyright for their flag on stamps.
--
Victor Manta


Victor

I believe that it is even a criminal offence to burn a US flag. Even in
Iraq.

Regards, Roger

For sure it is, Roger, but I just wonder which is the relationship with
my or with your earlier posting? Does by chance buying stamps, with or
without flags on them, mean burning anything?

--
Victor Manta

Victor

It was just that your suggestion that the US authorities needed to
"copyright" the image of their flag to protect it led to my thought about
the length to which they seek to protect this representation of their
nationhood.

Regards, Roger
An interesting association of thoughts indeed.

I suppose that the Union Jack image is copyrighted and/or that the usage of
it is somehow restricted too. I wonder if the Union Flag (apparently the
correct term) also leads your thought to burning or it is only the US flag
that triggers this kind of thought?

--
Victor Manta

PS. Interestingly enough, and unrelated to the subject, I just have read
that: "Flying the Union Jack upside-down may be regarded as a distress
signal."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack

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"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
..

I suppose that the Union Jack image is copyrighted and/or that the usage
of it is somehow restricted too. I wonder if the Union Flag (apparently
the correct term) also leads your thought to burning or it is only the US
flag that triggers this kind of thought?

--
Victor Manta


Victor

To clarify slightly one thing about copyright law, the USA is the only
significant country in the world that has a requirement for registering
copyright and that therefore "to copyright" something only has significance
under that jurisdiction. In all other countries copyright exists in a
qualifying work automatically on its creation so the term "copyrighted" does
not mean anything. In the context of your use we would use the adjective
"copyright".

Whether the design of the Union Flag is copyright I doubt. If it were it
would be Crown copyright which would only subsist for a certain period of
time, and to provide for perpetual protection it would need special
protection under copyright or other legislation, and I am not aware of any.
I think what we would be looking for is something having a similar effect to
the international treaty that protects the Olympic symbol.

An act of burning the flag or something similar having the intention of
insulting the establishment in the UK (including our much-loved prime
minister) would probably be actionable, if at all, as a general offence such
as causing an affray or breach of the peace.

I hope this helps

Regards, Roger

"Joshua Kreitzer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Roger Smith wrote:

I believe that it is even a criminal offence to burn a US flag. Even in
Iraq.

It is not a criminal offense to burn a U.S. flag in the United States;
the Supreme Court ruled in 1989 and 1990 that laws against burning the
flag were unconstitutional.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...=491&invol=397
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...s/496/310.html

I have no information about whether the laws of Iraq prohibit burning
the U.S. or Iraqi flag.

Joshua Kreitzer


Thank you Joshua for that clarification.

I wonder what axis troops would do if they came across a group of Iraqis
burning the US flag.

Regards, Roger

"Roger Smith" wrote in message
...

"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
.

I suppose that the Union Jack image is copyrighted and/or that the usage
of it is somehow restricted too. I wonder if the Union Flag (apparently
the correct term) also leads your thought to burning or it is only the US
flag that triggers this kind of thought?

--
Victor Manta


Victor

To clarify slightly one thing about copyright law, the USA is the only
significant country in the world that has a requirement for registering
copyright and that therefore "to copyright" something only has
significance under that jurisdiction. In all other countries copyright
exists in a qualifying work automatically on its creation so the term
"copyrighted" does not mean anything. In the context of your use we would
use the adjective "copyright".

Whether the design of the Union Flag is copyright I doubt. If it were it
would be Crown copyright which would only subsist for a certain period of
time, and to provide for perpetual protection it would need special
protection under copyright or other legislation, and I am not aware of
any. I think what we would be looking for is something having a similar
effect to the international treaty that protects the Olympic symbol.

An act of burning the flag or something similar having the intention of
insulting the establishment in the UK (including our much-loved prime
minister) would probably be actionable, if at all, as a general offence
such as causing an affray or breach of the peace.

I hope this helps

Regards, Roger
Thanks for your explanations, Roger.

From them I can infer that the idea of burning the Union Jack or other flags
won't usually appear on this NG, and this not only because the act would be
eventually punishable in one or other of countries.

--
Victor Manta

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"Roger Smith" wrote in message
...

Roger Smith wrote:

Thank you Joshua for that clarification.

I wonder what axis troops would do if they came across a group of Iraqis
burning the US flag.

Regards, Roger

They will receive a supplementary humanitarian aid. And their stamps will be
printed free of charge.

--
Victor Manta

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Spanish North Africa: http://www.values.ch/sna-site/
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In a recent message "Roger Smith" wrote:


"Victor Manta" wrote in message
...
.

I suppose that the Union Jack image is copyrighted and/or that the usage
of it is somehow restricted too. I wonder if the Union Flag (apparently
the correct term) also leads your thought to burning or it is only the US
flag that triggers this kind of thought?

--
Victor Manta


Victor

To clarify slightly one thing about copyright law, the USA is the only
significant country in the world that has a requirement for registering
copyright and that therefore "to copyright" something only has significance
under that jurisdiction. In all other countries copyright exists in a
qualifying work automatically on its creation so the term "copyrighted" does
not mean anything. In the context of your use we would use the adjective
"copyright".

Whether the design of the Union Flag is copyright I doubt. If it were it
would be Crown copyright which would only subsist for a certain period of
time, and to provide for perpetual protection it would need special
protection under copyright or other legislation, and I am not aware of any.
I think what we would be looking for is something having a similar effect to
the international treaty that protects the Olympic symbol.

An act of burning the flag or something similar having the intention of
insulting the establishment in the UK (including our much-loved prime
minister) would probably be actionable, if at all, as a general offence such
as causing an affray or breach of the peace.

However, what you may NOT do without heavy penalty is fly the Union Flag on a boat!

The appropriate flag is the Red Ensign (usually referred to as
the Red Duster).

The White Ensign is now flown only by Royal Navy warships, and the Blue Ensign
by Reserve Forces.

--
Tony Clayton
Coins of the UK : http://www.coinsoftheuk.info
Sent using RISCOS on an Acorn Strong Arm RiscPC
.... There is intelligent life on Earth, but I'm just visiting