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#21
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PCGS and Their "Questionable Color" Ripoff
On Jan 17, 10:07*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com
wrote: oly wrote: On Jan 16, 12:35 pm, Reality wrote: On Jan 16, 6:56 am, oly wrote: On Jan 16, 8:29 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Reality" wrote in message .... On Jan 15, 8:10 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Reality" wrote in message ... What is the deal with this nonsense? When I submit a coin to PCGS, I want to know if it is genuine, the grade, and if it is original. IMO if you are paying the supposed leading expert graders in the industry a $30 grading fee plus shipping both ways, then their "Genuine - Questionable Color" B.S is not an option. I'm paying them to tell me one way or the other. The color/toning is either ORIGINAL or NOT. If they can't tell the difference, then what is their opinion worth? IMO the grading fee should be refunded if their "experts" can't discern the difference. It's a total ripoff otherwise. Tell 'em we said to give you your money back. It's much less stressful to buy coins already graded by PCGS (and paid for by someone else) than to send them your own coins and hold your breath waiting. The point is, why should *anyone* get ripped off in that manner? =========== If you do some homework first, you're less likely to get "ripped off". Sending a coin to a TPG like PCGS can be a crapshoot unless you're someone who's experienced with that sort of thing. Before spending that money maybe it would have saved any disappointment if you'd showed the coin first to a couple reputable dealers who might have cautioned you about your coin's questionable color and how PCGS might respond to it. You didn't say if you did submit the coin through a dealer or if you're a "member". If it was through a dealer, maybe you've got a gripe with that dealer for not advising you as to what PCGS might conclude. No one should get ripped off in that manner, and there are many ways to minimize the chance.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bruce, your first advice was very adequate (i.e., buy a decent piece, sightseen, already slabbed); that's not the game the OP wants to play. oly I was going to put the coin in an auction raw, and the advice given to me was to have it slobbed because that's how most people want to buy them these days. I'm not playing any games, and I don't appreciate your silly insinuations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Of course you're playing a game. *And you're not an insider, which is why you can't win. Maybe when we boil numismatics down to its component salts, one of them is indeed a game. *And, like all games, it will be taken more or less seriously, according to the temperament of the player. *I'd say that numismatics has room for the entire spectrum of gamers. And to boot, you'll have to misrepresent the coin for the rest of the sales process. *Which, obviously you are more than willing to do. The most common misrepresentation I have seen is trying to get XF money for a VF coin that somehow got into an XF slab. James the Overachiever- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I believe that it has previously been observed that slabbed coins follow a form of "Gresham's Law" (Bad Money drives out Good). Been on sabbatical, mon prof? oly |
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#22
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PCGS and Their "Questionable Color" Ripoff
oly wrote:
On Jan 17, 10:07 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: oly wrote: On Jan 16, 12:35 pm, Reality wrote: On Jan 16, 6:56 am, oly wrote: On Jan 16, 8:29 am, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Reality" wrote in message ... On Jan 15, 8:10 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Reality" wrote in message ... What is the deal with this nonsense? When I submit a coin to PCGS, I want to know if it is genuine, the grade, and if it is original. IMO if you are paying the supposed leading expert graders in the industry a $30 grading fee plus shipping both ways, then their "Genuine - Questionable Color" B.S is not an option. I'm paying them to tell me one way or the other. The color/toning is either ORIGINAL or NOT. If they can't tell the difference, then what is their opinion worth? IMO the grading fee should be refunded if their "experts" can't discern the difference. It's a total ripoff otherwise. Tell 'em we said to give you your money back. It's much less stressful to buy coins already graded by PCGS (and paid for by someone else) than to send them your own coins and hold your breath waiting. The point is, why should *anyone* get ripped off in that manner? =========== If you do some homework first, you're less likely to get "ripped off". Sending a coin to a TPG like PCGS can be a crapshoot unless you're someone who's experienced with that sort of thing. Before spending that money maybe it would have saved any disappointment if you'd showed the coin first to a couple reputable dealers who might have cautioned you about your coin's questionable color and how PCGS might respond to it. You didn't say if you did submit the coin through a dealer or if you're a "member". If it was through a dealer, maybe you've got a gripe with that dealer for not advising you as to what PCGS might conclude. No one should get ripped off in that manner, and there are many ways to minimize the chance.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bruce, your first advice was very adequate (i.e., buy a decent piece, sightseen, already slabbed); that's not the game the OP wants to play. oly I was going to put the coin in an auction raw, and the advice given to me was to have it slobbed because that's how most people want to buy them these days. I'm not playing any games, and I don't appreciate your silly insinuations.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Of course you're playing a game. And you're not an insider, which is why you can't win. Maybe when we boil numismatics down to its component salts, one of them is indeed a game. And, like all games, it will be taken more or less seriously, according to the temperament of the player. I'd say that numismatics has room for the entire spectrum of gamers. And to boot, you'll have to misrepresent the coin for the rest of the sales process. Which, obviously you are more than willing to do. The most common misrepresentation I have seen is trying to get XF money for a VF coin that somehow got into an XF slab. James the Overachiever- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I believe that it has previously been observed that slabbed coins follow a form of "Gresham's Law" (Bad Money drives out Good). Been on sabbatical, mon prof? No, not really. Starting the last week of 2009 I kept getting error messages that read "connection limit reached" with some outfit in Florida whenever I tried to log on to Usenet. Since the year turned I no longer get that message but have still been mostly unable to log on. The situation seems to be getting better, though, because obviously, I'm here now. Thanks for asking. James the Intermittent |
#23
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PCGS and Their "Questionable Color" Ripoff
On Jan 17, 7:54*pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
Realitywrote: What is the deal with this nonsense? When I submit a coin to PCGS, I want to know if it is genuine, the grade, and if it is original. IMO if you are paying the supposed leading expert graders in the industry a $30 grading fee plus shipping both ways, then their "Genuine - Questionable Color" B.S is not an option. *I'm paying them to tell me one way or the other. The color/toning is either ORIGINAL or NOT. If they can't tell the difference, then what is their opinion worth? IMO the grading fee should be refunded if their "experts" can't discern the difference. *It's a total ripoff otherwise. PCGS assesses coins in terms of how they think the market will view them. If they feel the market will be accepting, they will grade the coin. *If they feel the market will be hesitant or unaccepting, they will slab the coin as genuine and then tell you why they made the judgment call (IMHO a much more humane and instructive policy than their previous bodybag event). In all cases they prejudge the anticipated reaction to your coin of a market that is partially known and partially unknown, based upon their past experience, which is definitely broader than mine and, I would guess, broader than yours. *It is scientific only to a point, then the real emotions, fears, and fickle, undefinable "feelings" that lurk in the market take over, whence the "questionable" designator. *My conclusion and advice, after sending several coins to PCGS and seeing countless others in bodybags, graded slabs, and "genuine" slabs: *"It's a crapshoot. *Don't gamble any more money than you can afford to lose." *From what I have seen, PCGS arrives at that conclusion and follows that advice to the letter. PCGS had a display at their table at CICF 2009 which featured two cases full of coins they had to buy back for one reason or another after they had put them in graded slabs. *I am certain that some of those buybacks cost them a bundle. *Perhaps not a significant fraction of their bottom line, nevertheless they represented a lesson in caution in putting their trademark on their product. Your screen name isReality, and that's thereality,Reality. *8) James the Ombudsman Ya, well the "reality" is that I did't get to give them the history of the coin which would totally disprove their incompetence in this particular case. So I got screwed by some clueless so-called "grader" this time around (which will probably be my last with those nitwits unless the dealer pays for it). |
#24
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PCGS and Their "Questionable Color" Ripoff
On Friday, January 15, 2010 at 8:00:28 PM UTC-8, Reality wrote:
What is the deal with this nonsense? When I submit a coin to PCGS, I want to know if it is genuine, the grade, and if it is original. IMO if you are paying the supposed leading expert graders in the industry a $30 grading fee plus shipping both ways, then their "Genuine - Questionable Color" B.S is not an option. I'm paying them to tell me one way or the other. The color/toning is either ORIGINAL or NOT. If they can't tell the difference, then what is their opinion worth? IMO the grading fee should be refunded if their "experts" can't discern the difference. It's a total ripoff otherwise. |
#25
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PCGS and Their "Questionable Color" Ripoff
On Friday, January 15, 2010 at 8:00:28 PM UTC-8, Reality wrote:
What is the deal with this nonsense? When I submit a coin to PCGS, I want to know if it is genuine, the grade, and if it is original. IMO if you are paying the supposed leading expert graders in the industry a $30 grading fee plus shipping both ways, then their "Genuine - Questionable Color" B.S is not an option. I'm paying them to tell me one way or the other. The color/toning is either ORIGINAL or NOT. If they can't tell the difference, then what is their opinion worth? IMO the grading fee should be refunded if their "experts" can't discern the difference. It's a total ripoff otherwise. I had the EXACT SAME issue and to my knowledge, my beautiful Morgans with slight rainbow toning came back as "Genuine / Questionable Color / Unc Details" so it's a lovely coin which I knew was real (I have a sigma coin tester) so it was a waste of money I suppose??????? |
#26
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PCGS and Their "Questionable Color" Ripoff
On Friday, January 15, 2010 at 8:00:28 PM UTC-8, Reality wrote:
What is the deal with this nonsense? When I submit a coin to PCGS, I want to know if it is genuine, the grade, and if it is original. IMO if you are paying the supposed leading expert graders in the industry a $30 grading fee plus shipping both ways, then their "Genuine - Questionable Color" B.S is not an option. I'm paying them to tell me one way or the other. The color/toning is either ORIGINAL or NOT. If they can't tell the difference, then what is their opinion worth? IMO the grading fee should be refunded if their "experts" can't discern the difference. It's a total ripoff otherwise. |
#27
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PCGS and Their "Questionable Color" Ripoff
On Friday, January 15, 2010 at 8:00:28 PM UTC-8, Reality wrote:
What is the deal with this nonsense? When I submit a coin to PCGS, I want to know if it is genuine, the grade, and if it is original. IMO if you are paying the supposed leading expert graders in the industry a $30 grading fee plus shipping both ways, then their "Genuine - Questionable Color" B.S is not an option. I'm paying them to tell me one way or the other. The color/toning is either ORIGINAL or NOT. If they can't tell the difference, then what is their opinion worth? IMO the grading fee should be refunded if their "experts" can't discern the difference. It's a total ripoff otherwise. |
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