My Dip Pen Evaluation

Well, so I bought some simple, cheap new old stock dip pens with
flexible medium nibs to test. Since I couldn't really find a good
fountain pen with a flexible nib that I wanted to invest in at the
moment, I decided to give these a try to see what they were like.

Painted wood with cork at the bottom, steel nibs, these pens seemed
fairly normal, if not stereotypical. :-) It has been a long time since
I have used any sort of flexible nib pen (such as a Quill), and this is
the first time I have had the opportunity to use it after beginning to
understand Spencerian script. It was an interesting experience.

I had trouble removing the oil sheet from the nibs at first. I tried
boiling water, and apparently that only half worked. When I dipped the
pens I found the ink very sparse and it did not flow well at all. In
fact, you could see the ink beading up on the nib, so I knew something
wasn't right. I then grabed some rubbing alcohol, and tried that. It
worked much better. After cleaning, however, the pen took too much ink;
it took more than could be reliably retained in the nib, so I ended up
with a lot of spills and blobs. Working with it a few more times seemed
to even out the pen to where the ink would properly attach with the nib
and it would flow evenly onto the paper.

Now, the good news is that I have found Spencerian SO much easier now
that I have this pen. I have an old 1800's manual from which I learn my
handwriting, and often the instructions in that book are clearly for a
pen of this kind, instead of a modern fountain pen, and it makes an
astouding difference. In fact, I did not really realize how much of a
difference it made.

Now, what surprised me the most was the effect different types of paper
had on the pen's performance. I had not expected such a varied
performance on different types of paper. I tried with four different
types of paper. The first type was the standard 69 cent notebook paper.
This paper was hyper fibery and very absorbant. As such, it seemed to
soak up as much ink from the pen as it could, and it didn't really feel
right. I then tried a smooth inkjet/laser copy paper. That was almost
too smooth, for some reason, it just did not seem to absorb anything,
and all the ink just floated on top of the paper. This also resulted in
the ink being very likely to blob on me spontaneously. The next paper I
tried was a sketch book paper specified to work with inks. This paper
was significantly better, and by this time I had really worked out a
lot of the issues with the nib. It had a good balance, but still had a
tendency to glob occassionally.

I believe I was surprised to find that my stationary from Crane's (hand
painted black border type) was really the best writer. It has always
been a great paper for my pens (I like the tactile feedback I get, and
it absorbs just right), but I recently read that someone didn't like
the Crane's stationary that they had. For me however, I could probably
not ask for a better paper. It feels like it responds to the pen better
than any other paper I have, and works best on both my fountain pens
and my new dip pens.

So, I guess in the end, my fear of ruining my best stationary was
completely unfounded, and I have found another marvelous combination of
pen and paper that writes as well as I coudl hope for, and works very
well. I'm glad to not have to switch to a new form of stationary, and
I'm even gladder that the dip pens have been so relatively easy to pick
up. :-)
--
Aaron Hsu

On Apr 14, 7:26 am, Aaron Hsu wrote:
Well, so I bought some simple, cheap new old stock dip pens with
flexible medium nibs to test. Since I couldn't really find a good
fountain pen with a flexible nib that I wanted to invest in at the
moment, I decided to give these a try to see what they were like.

Painted wood with cork at the bottom, steel nibs, these pens seemed
fairly normal, if not stereotypical. :-) It has been a long time since
I have used any sort of flexible nib pen (such as a Quill), and this is
the first time I have had the opportunity to use it after beginning to
understand Spencerian script. It was an interesting experience.

I had trouble removing the oil sheet from the nibs at first. I tried
boiling water, and apparently that only half worked. When I dipped the
pens I found the ink very sparse and it did not flow well at all. In
fact, you could see the ink beading up on the nib, so I knew something
wasn't right. I then grabed some rubbing alcohol, and tried that. It
worked much better. After cleaning, however, the pen took too much ink;
it took more than could be reliably retained in the nib, so I ended up
with a lot of spills and blobs. Working with it a few more times seemed
to even out the pen to where the ink would properly attach with the nib
and it would flow evenly onto the paper.

Now, the good news is that I have found Spencerian SO much easier now
that I have this pen. I have an old 1800's manual from which I learn my
handwriting, and often the instructions in that book are clearly for a
pen of this kind, instead of a modern fountain pen, and it makes an
astouding difference. In fact, I did not really realize how much of a
difference it made.

Now, what surprised me the most was the effect different types of paper
had on the pen's performance. I had not expected such a varied
performance on different types of paper. I tried with four different
types of paper. The first type was the standard 69 cent notebook paper.
This paper was hyper fibery and very absorbant. As such, it seemed to
soak up as much ink from the pen as it could, and it didn't really feel
right. I then tried a smooth inkjet/laser copy paper. That was almost
too smooth, for some reason, it just did not seem to absorb anything,
and all the ink just floated on top of the paper. This also resulted in
the ink being very likely to blob on me spontaneously. The next paper I
tried was a sketch book paper specified to work with inks. This paper
was significantly better, and by this time I had really worked out a
lot of the issues with the nib. It had a good balance, but still had a
tendency to glob occassionally.

I believe I was surprised to find that my stationary from Crane's (hand
painted black border type) was really the best writer. It has always
been a great paper for my pens (I like the tactile feedback I get, and
it absorbs just right), but I recently read that someone didn't like
the Crane's stationary that they had. For me however, I could probably
not ask for a better paper. It feels like it responds to the pen better
than any other paper I have, and works best on both my fountain pens
and my new dip pens.

So, I guess in the end, my fear of ruining my best stationary was
completely unfounded, and I have found another marvelous combination of
pen and paper that writes as well as I coudl hope for, and works very
well. I'm glad to not have to switch to a new form of stationary, and
I'm even gladder that the dip pens have been so relatively easy to pick
up. :-)
--
Aaron Hsu

I don't know about the oil sheet you talk about, I have a few pen
holder or the different nibs I have. I only use them for watercolor
painting (with either watecolor or india ink).

My advice is to keep a piece of paper at hand to try the nib everytime
you dip the pen. Some nibs have some sort of ink trap (a metal flange
or an ink well). Each nib is different and have different habits; some
of them disgusting. Experiment and have fun.

Juan

On 2007-04-14 05:11:51 -0500, "Juan" said:

My advice is to keep a piece of paper at hand to try the nib everytime
you dip the pen. Some nibs have some sort of ink trap (a metal flange
or an ink well). Each nib is different and have different habits; some
of them disgusting. Experiment and have fun.

Oh, I'm certainly having fun. :-) I have only one type of nib that I
use at the moment, so I do not have the experience of multiple nibs to
see the difference they all undoubtedly make, but I do find it
interesting to see how, as I use the pen over a longer period of time,
the nib starts to have a little residual ink on it that seems to
"soften" or distribute the ink a tad better. It's a very neglegible
adjustment, but it does show up when one is trying to write Spencerian.
It's not really bad either way, though.
--
Aaron Hsu

"Aaron Hsu" wrote in message
news:2007041400262716807-aaronhsu@sacrificumdeonet...
Well, so I bought some simple, cheap new old stock dip pens with flexible
medium nibs to test. Since I couldn't really find a good fountain pen with
a flexible nib that I wanted to invest in at the moment, I decided to give
these a try to see what they were like.

Good plan. The Namiki Falcon is a great pen in my opinion, but
not because of flex.

(B: gently springy, smooth as double cream. Number 1 in the
Moira Chart, a brilliant pen).

Painted wood with cork at the bottom, steel nibs, these pens seemed fairly
normal, if not stereotypical. :-) It has been a long time since I have
used any sort of flexible nib pen (such as a Quill), and this is the first
time I have had the opportunity to use it after beginning to understand
Spencerian script. It was an interesting experience.

I made "Quill Pens" with crow and pigeon feathers when I was
a child. We lived in the country.

I had trouble removing the oil sheet from the nibs at first. I tried
boiling water, and apparently that only half worked. When I dipped the
pens I found the ink very sparse and it did not flow well at all. In fact,
you could see the ink beading up on the nib, so I knew something wasn't
right. I then grabed some rubbing alcohol, and tried that. It worked much
better. After cleaning, however, the pen took too much ink; it took more
than could be reliably retained in the nib, so I ended up with a lot of
spills and blobs. Working with it a few more times seemed to even out the
pen to where the ink would properly attach with the nib and it would flow
evenly onto the paper.

They sell them all oily? That's disgraceful, but not much different to FPs
like Waterman Hemisphere arriving all skippy. Bah!.

If the nibs are detachable, remove them from the pen bodies. Smear
them with green detergent (Fairy Liquid or similar). If it's really
engrained,
then give them a good once-over with a soft toothbrush.
Finally, rinse thoroughly in boiling water.

Now, the good news is that I have found Spencerian SO much easier now that
I have this pen. I have an old 1800's manual from which I learn my
handwriting, and often the instructions in that book are clearly for a pen
of this kind, instead of a modern fountain pen, and it makes an astouding
difference. In fact, I did not really realize how much of a difference it
made.

I'd be prepared to try some pen acrobatics with a cheap dip nib, that I
wouldn't dare subject a stellar FP like my Falcon to.

snip paper advice

Hmm - I might try some dip pens. This sounds like fun.

--
Moira "dipping a toe"

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:49:51 -0500, Moira Perkins wrote:

"Aaron Hsu" wrote in message
news:2007041400262716807-aaronhsu@sacrificumdeonet...
I had trouble removing the oil sheet from the nibs at first. I tried
boiling water, and apparently that only half worked. When I dipped the
pens I found the ink very sparse and it did not flow well at all. In
fact,
you could see the ink beading up on the nib, so I knew something wasn't
right. I then grabed some rubbing alcohol, and tried that. It worked
much
better. After cleaning, however, the pen took too much ink; it took more
than could be reliably retained in the nib, so I ended up with a lot of
spills and blobs. Working with it a few more times seemed to even out
the
pen to where the ink would properly attach with the nib and it would
flow
evenly onto the paper.

They sell them all oily? That's disgraceful, but not much different to
FPs
like Waterman Hemisphere arriving all skippy. Bah!.

Actually, according to them, the oils are intentional to prevent rusting
during storage. It's supposedly a special coating of thin oil, and they
warn you to remove it beforehand. Whether it's simply a byproduct or
something they do extra, I do not know.

Now, the good news is that I have found Spencerian SO much easier now
that
I have this pen. I have an old 1800's manual from which I learn my
handwriting, and often the instructions in that book are clearly for a
pen
of this kind, instead of a modern fountain pen, and it makes an
astouding
difference. In fact, I did not really realize how much of a difference
it
made.

I'd be prepared to try some pen acrobatics with a cheap dip nib, that I
wouldn't dare subject a stellar FP like my Falcon to.

snip paper advice

Hmm - I might try some dip pens. This sounds like fun.

I think they are much more fun when you can play with the flourishes and
the whole nine yard setup rather than just dealing with standard
"everyday" italic or something similar. The dip pen allows me to add a
little something extra, but mostly becasue of the flexible nib.

--
Aaron Hsu
"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he
could do only a little." - Edmund Burke

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 01:10:10 -0500, Aaron Hsu wrote
(in article ):

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:49:51 -0500, Moira Perkins wrote:

"Aaron Hsu" wrote in message
news:2007041400262716807-aaronhsu@sacrificumdeonet...
I had trouble removing the oil sheet from the nibs at first. I tried
boiling water, and apparently that only half worked. When I dipped the
pens I found the ink very sparse and it did not flow well at all. In
fact,
you could see the ink beading up on the nib, so I knew something wasn't
right. I then grabed some rubbing alcohol, and tried that. It worked
much
better. After cleaning, however, the pen took too much ink; it took more
than could be reliably retained in the nib, so I ended up with a lot of
spills and blobs. Working with it a few more times seemed to even out
the
pen to where the ink would properly attach with the nib and it would
flow
evenly onto the paper.

They sell them all oily? That's disgraceful, but not much different to
FPs
like Waterman Hemisphere arriving all skippy. Bah!.

Actually, according to them, the oils are intentional to prevent rusting
during storage. It's supposedly a special coating of thin oil, and they
warn you to remove it beforehand. Whether it's simply a byproduct or
something they do extra, I do not know.

The oil is probably put on for the stamping of the nib into its' proper
shape, otherwise it would stick in the die. It also, as a by-product, helps
prevent rusting between the time it was made and the time it gets used. Since
once they stamp the nib into its' proper shape, plus minor flash trimming,
the manufacturing process is done so degreasing would just be an extra cost,
especially if they then had to add an oil or grease layer to it to prevent
rusting during storage.

It is pretty much like reshaping a fired pistol shell, or aluminium cans,
before running it into the die you have to lightly coat it with grease
otherwise it sticks in the die, this can be a) expensive in time, replacement
of the die, or lots of ruined shells. b) expensive in doctor calls for
blood-pressure meds., busted fingers, headaches.

Now, the good news is that I have found Spencerian SO much easier now
that
I have this pen. I have an old 1800's manual from which I learn my
handwriting, and often the instructions in that book are clearly for a
pen
of this kind, instead of a modern fountain pen, and it makes an
astouding
difference. In fact, I did not really realize how much of a difference
it
made.

I'd be prepared to try some pen acrobatics with a cheap dip nib, that I
wouldn't dare subject a stellar FP like my Falcon to.

snip paper advice

Hmm - I might try some dip pens. This sounds like fun.

I think they are much more fun when you can play with the flourishes and
the whole nine yard setup rather than just dealing with standard
"everyday" italic or something similar. The dip pen allows me to add a
little something extra, but mostly becasue of the flexible nib.

I used to hate using dip pens back in school (in the 50's), but Diane loves
using them, so I recently bought her about 4 of them and a few different
nibs, I probably should find out from her which ones she likes the most and
get her some more.

--
Harry F. Leopold
aa #2076
AA/Vet #4
The Prints of Darkness
(remove gene to email)

³We don't just borrow words; on occasion English has pursued other languages
down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new
vocabulary."-James D. Nicoll

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:48:43 -0500, Harry F. Leopold
wrote:

I used to hate using dip pens back in school

I can imagine they would not be much fun if someone was trying to get done
with school and they had to bother with a dip pen. :-) I actually broke my
dip pens in by doing Calculus Homework with them.

--
Aaron Hsu
"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he
could do only a little." - Edmund Burke

On Apr 16, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Hsu" wrote:
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:48:43 -0500, Harry F. Leopold
wrote:

I used to hate using dip pens back in school

I can imagine they would not be much fun if someone was trying to get done
with school and they had to bother with a dip pen. :-) I actually broke my
dip pens in by doing Calculus Homework with them.


I have begun to like glass dip pens. No flex, of course. But they
can be used in anyu othe too many ink colors I have, and mixing
experiments. Never a problem of restruicted flow, and clean up is
simply a wipe with a tissue.

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:42:03 -0500, JimL wrote:

I have begun to like glass dip pens. No flex, of course. But they
can be used in anyu othe too many ink colors I have, and mixing
experiments. Never a problem of restruicted flow, and clean up is
simply a wipe with a tissue.

The glass dip pen I used at one time was a real pain, mostly because it
probably was more for show than anything. It must not have been cut/ground
right because it would never write consistently, and was often very messy.
Nowadays, though, flex is everything for me, so a glass dip is out
anyways. However, the clean up part sounds great. :-) I know that would be
very convenient for those quick little jot a note down real fast type of
situations at my desk.

--
Aaron Hsu
"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he
could do only a little." - Edmund Burke