Helvetia

Bob Watson wrote:

National allegories that spring to mind a

England: "Britannia"
France: "Marianne"
Germany: "Germania"
Switzerland: "Helvetia"
South Africa: "Hope" (close relative to Britannia, I would say)

"Uncle Sam" (USA) does not quite fit as an allegory in the traditional
sense because he is used to personify the US government rather than the
nation - the two are not quite the same.

Uncle Sam is to the US as John Bull is to the UK.

The American colonies and the US have had many icons:

Amer-Indian female with head feathers, astride an armadillo
Pocahontas.
Plumed Greek Goddess often with shield and/or liberty cap or pole
Columbia
Liberty

Probably Liberty should be considered the current icon.

As far as Hope as the allegorical representation of South Africa---
Despite Hope's appearance on many of the Cape colony's stamps, when I
lived in South Africa I do not recalling seeing any use of that icon,
and I think it's a stretch at best.

--

Kaleb S. KEITHLEY

On Fri, 8 Aug 2003 05:06:45 +0200, "Pierre Courtiade"
wrote:

Bob Watson wrote :

.............
National allegories that spring to mind a

England: "Britannia"
France: "Marianne"
Germany: "Germania"
Switzerland: "Helvetia"
South Africa: "Hope" (close relative to Britannia, I would say)

"Uncle Sam" (USA) does not quite fit as an allegory in the traditional
sense because he is used to personify the US government rather than
the nation - the two are not quite the same.

Bob,

Thanks for your very interesting answer.

For the US I would have thought this role was taken by the Eagle which
appears on many stamps ?


As far as I know, the only country that makes an effort to keep up
with
the national allegory concept is France with Marianne. I don't know if
there is a Marianne Dept. in the French Government, but new models are
selected every now and again for an official portrait (I gather).
.......

France's summary
------------------

Marianne appears at the end of WW II ; before different allegories were
used (apart from the times when Napoleon III and Petain ruled the
country)

History
-------

The 1st French stamp (the allegory of *Ceres*, the Roman goddess of
harvesting and agriculture - Demeter in Greece) is issued in 1849 under
the 2d Republic.
When Napoleon III became president he had his head portrayed (and again
after his coup d'Etat to repace the Republic by the 2d Empire).

In 1870 the Ceres allegory came back, replaced in 1876 by another
allegory : *Peace & Commerce*

Then in 1900 arrive :
- for smaller face values, the "Blanc" type (a woman representing the
Republic and wearing the symbols of Justice and Truthfulness)
- for medium face values, the "Mouchon" type (a woman wearing the tables
of Human Rights)
- for higher face values, the Merson type (the Republic as a custodian
of the Laws)

In 1903, the Mouchon type wich was disliked by the public was replaced
by the *Sower* (the last sowers were issued in 1938)

In 1933 an allegory represents Peace and in 1938 other allegories are
issued :
- Mercure - Hermes in Greece - Roman god of Commerce
- Iris the Greek messenger of the gods
- a new design of Ceres

During WW II and the rule of Petain, he is portrayed on the current
values of stamps


*The Mariannes*
-----------------

The 1st Marianne, designed by Louis Fernez, printed in Algiers, appears
in liberated Corsica in April 1944

The 2d one, designed by Dulac, printed in London by de la Rue, is issued
in Sept. 1944

During the liberation of Paris (Aug 1944), Pierre Gandon is asked to
design a new Marianne ; Gandon portrays his wife Jacqueline and the
stamp is issued in Feb 1945.

Many other Mariannes have been issued since : Marianne "à la Nef", from
Cocteau, from Béquet, from Briat (for the bicentennial of the French
revolution), from Eve Luquet.

No, there is not any Marianne Dept. in the French Government, but it is
the tradition that each new President is offered to choose a new design
(after an open or limited to a few well known engravers competition is
organised by the French Postal Administration).

It may also happen after a president is re-elected (presidential
elections
were taking place every 7 years since WW II, now every 5 years).
A new president may decide to continue with the current design.

In 1977 President Giscard d'Estaing decides to opt not for a Marianne
but for a "Sabine" designed by Gandon (after a painting from J.L. David
"Sabines women opposing fighting between Romans and Sabins")

In 1981 President Mitterrand chooses an allegory of the Republic (with a
Phrygian cap, such assimilable to a Marianne) designed by Gandon (after
a
painting from Delacroix "Liberty guiding the People")

The current Marianne (designed for the 1st time by a woman, Eve Luquet)
was issued well after election pf President Chirac on the occasion of
1997 Bastille day (14th July).

Thanks for the history lesson!

Tracy Barber

Kaleb KEITHLEY wrote:
..........
The American colonies and the US have had many icons:

Amer-Indian female with head feathers, astride an armadillo
Pocahontas.
Plumed Greek Goddess often with shield and/or liberty cap or pole
Columbia
Liberty

I had forgotten Columbia!
There's an interesting background to these US allegories at
http://140.115.95.15/english/report3...sh/relate4.htm which explains
their evolution and symbolism.

As far as Hope as the allegorical representation of South Africa---
Despite Hope's appearance on many of the Cape colony's stamps, when I
lived in South Africa I do not recalling seeing any use of that icon,
and I think it's a stretch at best.

A failed attempt by the British Colonial Office to provide a unifying
symbol for South Africa, perhaps?

All the best,
Bob Watson

Bob Watson wrote:


Kaleb KEITHLEY wrote:

..........
The American colonies and the US have had many icons:

Amer-Indian female with head feathers, astride an armadillo
Pocahontas.
Plumed Greek Goddess often with shield and/or liberty cap or pole
Columbia
Liberty


I had forgotten Columbia!
There's an interesting background to these US allegories at
http://140.115.95.15/english/report3...sh/relate4.htm which explains
their evolution and symbolism.

That's where my list came from. :-)



As far as Hope as the allegorical representation of South Africa---
Despite Hope's appearance on many of the Cape colony's stamps, when I
lived in South Africa I do not recalling seeing any use of that icon,
and I think it's a stretch at best.


A failed attempt by the British Colonial Office to provide a unifying
symbol for South Africa, perhaps?

Hard to say. The Cape of Good Hope has had that name since the
Portuguese first navigated beyond it, but I don't know of any attempt to
apply allegorical icons to the region until the British took control.

With the exception of the Cape Triangle reprints, Hope does not appear
on any of the stamps of the Union of South Africa. If there was such an
attempt it appears to have been quickly abandoned.

I can easily imagine that the inhabitants of the former Boer republics
might have been fairly sensitive to anything that would remind them of
British imperialism, and perhaps that's why the use of Hope as an icon
was abandoned; but I'm only guessing.

--

Kaleb S. KEITHLEY

Pierre Courtiade wrote:
....... [Lots of very interesting stuff snipped.]

The 1st French stamp (the allegory of *Ceres*, the Roman goddess of
harvesting and agriculture - Demeter in Greece) is issued in 1849 under
the 2d Republic.

Any particular reason for choosing Ceres? Was it just something to put
on a stamp, or did she mean something special to French people at that
time?

Then in 1900 arrive :
- for smaller face values, the "Blanc" type (a woman representing the
Republic and wearing the symbols of Justice and Truthfulness)

Curious design! And just what are those two cherubic looking characters
up to on the left?

- for medium face values, the "Mouchon" type (a woman wearing the tables
of Human Rights)

Presumably that woman is representing the Republic again? Did she have a
name at that time?

- for higher face values, the Merson type (the Republic as a custodian
of the Laws)

You see, I thought that was Marianne taking it easy after checking her
scales while keeping an eye on the kids in the lower values, and
spending some time reading the "Rights of Man" on the intermediates.
(see: http://www3.sympatico.ca/bobwatson10/france1900.jpg for my page on
that. Will be updated in due course bearing in mind current
information!)

The 1st Marianne, designed by Louis Fernez, printed in Algiers, appears
in liberated Corsica in April 1944
...............
No, there is not any Marianne Dept. in the French Government, but it is
the tradition that each new President is offered to choose a new design
(after an open or limited to a few well known engravers competition is
organised by the French Postal Administration).

So, is Marianne pretty much a Post Office creation or does she have
wider significance in France?

And is there any story as to how she got her name?

All the best,
Bob Watson

Bob Watson wrote :

Pierre Courtiade wrote:
...... [Lots of very interesting stuff snipped.]

Thanks Bob ;-)

The 1st French stamp (the allegory of *Ceres*, the Roman goddess of
harvesting and agriculture - Demeter in Greece) is issued in 1849
under the 2d Republic.

Any particular reason for choosing Ceres? Was it just something to put
on a stamp, or did she mean something special to French people at that
time?

The only thing I am aware of is that Ceres then personnifies the
Republic.


Then in 1900 arrive :
- for smaller face values, the "Blanc" type (a woman representing the
Republic and wearing the symbols of Justice and Truthfulness)

Curious design! And just what are those two cherubic looking
characters up to on the left?

They are the symbol of Fraternity (as they kiss each other).
BTW, the scales, symbol of Justice are also viewed as the symbol of
Equality (which appears in the French Republic's motto : "Liberty
Equality Fraternity" still engraved nowadays on the pediments of public
buildings, schools, ...


- for medium face values, the "Mouchon" type (a woman wearing the
tables of Human Rights)

Presumably that woman is representing the Republic again?

Yes I think so, as she wears a Phrygian cap.
During the 1789 revolution the Phrygian cap (then called red cap) was
the symbol of the revolutionists, thus adopted as a symbol of the
Republic.

Did she have a name at that time?

Just the Republic I presume.


- for higher face values, the Merson type (the Republic as a
custodian of the Laws)

You see, I thought that was Marianne taking it easy after checking her
scales while keeping an eye on the kids in the lower values, and
spending some time reading the "Rights of Man" on the intermediates.
(see: http://www3.sympatico.ca/bobwatson10/france1900.jpg for my page
on that. Will be updated in due course bearing in mind current
information!)

Thanks Bob, very nice presentation of your stamps.
But I was frustrated not beeing able to see your other pages of French
stamps ;-)

On the Merson type, Marianne (or the Republic) is nevertheless cautious,
firmly holding a sword.
(On the Mouchon type, she holds a sceptre)


So, is Marianne pretty much a Post Office creation or does she have
wider significance in France?

Yes, she is the symbol of the Republic : it appears on the official
seals.
A lot of other designs of Marianne are shown on the French revenue
stamps.
For the "timbres d'usage courant" (common usage stamps) the Post Office
just organizes the competition and the selection of a new design.


And is there any story as to how she got her name?

Sorry I am not aware of it. The name itself could come from two common
christian names in France, Marie (Mary) and Anne (Ann) but I don't know
why :-(

May be Michael will be able to help us ?

--
All the best,
Pierre Courtiade