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#21
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
virgiliopoeta wrote:
Actually, gold hit an intraday high of over $800 back in 1981... Who the heck is talking about 1981? We're discussing fluctuations in the price of gold during the heyday of fountain pens. You are perhaps using the US government's inflation figures, which are notoriously understated for political reasons. If you will compare the prices for yourself, you will see that my estimate is roughly correct. So you say. Naturally it all depends on what you choose for the comparison, but the usual goods and services follow the estimate I have given. So you say. But, as usual, you provide absolutely no support for this assertion. I am really not interested in discussing this further with you... Dang it! I thought I might actually get you to disclose some of your sources... and the names of all those cognowhachamacallits you referred to earlier. ... I think perhaps you are a teenager ... Well, you've said it, therefore it must be so. I'm a teenager. And gold cost $1500/ounce (adjusted for inflation) during the heyday of fountain pens. And the convention of carrying pens nib up originated to prevent corrosion to nibs rather than to prevent leaking. And soaking entire pens (barrels and caps) doesn't pose significant risks to metal pen parts and some plastics. And good examples of hard rubber pens are rare. And carbolic acid (phenols) used as a preservative in inks are bad for fountain pens. And if you don't believe all this stuff, just look up vigiliopoeta's posts in the archives. -- B |
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#22
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
In article .com,
"virgiliopoeta" wrote: Gold was around $20 until FDR devalued the dollar In fact gold was _exactly_ $20.00 / ounce for as long as the United States' currency was based on the gold standard. Anyone trying to sell bullion for more would have a hard time of it when anyone could waltz into a bank with 80 silver quarters and walk out with a shiny $20.00 gold piece (the "Double-Eagle") which weighed exactly one ounce. There was no free market in gold until after it was no longer in common use as currency. Huckleberry Finn's $20.00 gold piece was worth exactly the same as Woodrow Wilson's 40 years later. And since no US currency has ever been recalled or discontinued you can waltz into any Federal Reserve Bank with a Double Eagle and sashay out with a crisp new $20.00 bill. What any of this has to do with pens is beyond me but hey, I figured I was missing out on some fun. Jon -- jon fabian looked good on paper f a b i a n "at" p a n i x "dot" c o m |
#23
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
Am 13 Nov 2006, jon fabian schrieb:
Gold was around $20 until FDR devalued the dollar In fact gold was _exactly_ $20.00 / ounce for as long as the United States' currency was based on the gold standard. Sure, but the gold standard corresponds more to the age of dip pens and quills than fountain pens. Even if you consider the end of Parker 75 production to mark the end of the age of fps, most of the fountain pen era still lies on this side of the New Deal. -- |
#24
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
In article ,
Barutan Seijin wrote: Sure, but the gold standard corresponds more to the age of dip pens and quills than fountain pens. The official US gold standard was from 1900 till 1933. This was certainly the "golden age" of safeties, eyedroppers, crescent-fillers, sleeve-fillers and the like. Don't forget Mark Twain shilled for the Conklin Crescent Filler. Mont Blanc's safeties in the 1920s were well within Germany's Gold Standard period (starting in 1871, ending in disastrous inflation). As is always the case with strategic metals, wars had a disruptive effect on the availability of non-monetary gold. But I'm just a li'l ol' pen collector, what do I know about economics? Jon -- jon fabian looked good on paper f a b i a n "at" p a n i x "dot" c o m |
#25
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
"jon fabian" wrote:
What any of this has to do with pens is beyond me but hey, I figured I was missing out on some fun. Hiya Jon... The historical-price-of-gold discussion arose when, in an attempt to support his assertion that "gold alloy was reserved for the very best pens," virgilio stated, "Gold was VERY dear back then, you know - at least $1500/oz in current dollars." I pointed out a few problems with his $1500/oz figure and also mentioned that one finds gold alloy nibs on all manner of vintage pens including student pens (e.g., Conklin's Student Specials, Sheaffer's student pens), economy pens (e.g., Ingersoll DollarPens, Diamond Points, the Sears brand Diamond Medals, many Wearevers, no name pens, etc.), second-tier and lower pens (like WASPs, Conklin All Americans, Parker Thrift-Time pens, Swallows, etc.), and even some novelty pens. So that's how we got onto that subject. Apart from that, though, there's been some really interesting stuff bandied about the board lately... For example, did you know that good examples of hard rubber pens are rare? Yep... You've been missing out on tons o' fun. -- B |
#26
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
jon fabian a écrit : In article .com, "virgiliopoeta" wrote: Gold was around $20 until FDR devalued the dollar In fact gold was _exactly_ $20.00 / ounce for as long as the United States' currency was based on the gold standard. I believe it was actually $19 and so many cents, but close to $20. The government made a few percent seigneurage, you know. But I agree that this has very little to do with pens, especially since gold was far too dear to use much of it in fountain pen nibs.. |
#27
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
virgiliopoeta wrote:
... gold was far too dear to use much of it in fountain pen nibs.. Virg... Well, I don't know how to break this to you, but they used more gold on fountain pens back then than we do now. Back then, for example, they often (not always of course) used rolled gold/gold fill instead of plating for trim. Nowadays you rarely see fountain pens with rolled gold trim. And I've been meaning to ask you, just how much gold (in weight) do you think a 14k fountain pen nib contains anyway? You know, we're not talking about massive quantities of gold. I don't have a scale sensitive enough to weigh any of my gold nibs, but I can tell you they weigh very, very little. And if you consider that 14k gold contains only about 58% gold, then it shouldn't surprise you that so many pens back then (including student pens, economy pens, no namers, etc.) came with gold alloy nibs. I mean, gold is about $600 an ounce now, but I can buy an entire nib assembly for a Namiki Vanishing Point (complete with 14k nib, feed, and converter/cartridge housing) for about $19.00--and that's an entire assembly, not just the nib, and that's my price. You can bet the manufacturer's cost is far less. -- B |
#28
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
Am 13 Nov 2006, jon fabian schrieb:
In article , Barutan Seijin wrote: Sure, but the gold standard corresponds more to the age of dip pens and quills than fountain pens. The official US gold standard was from 1900 till 1933. This was certainly the "golden age" of safeties, eyedroppers, crescent-fillers, sleeve-fillers and the like. I'm not sure what you mean by "official US gold standard", but the Mint Act of 1792 fixed the value of the dollar to a certain amount of gold, which in turn was valued at 15x the value of silver. Because its value dropped relative to gold, silver became the de facto standard for US currency. Nevertheless, as a bimetallic currency, the value of the US dollar never lost all connection to gold. -- |
#29
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
Barutan Seijin wrote:
... Even if you consider the end of Parker 75 production to mark the end of the age of fps, most of the fountain pen era still lies on this side of the New Deal. Parker ceased production of the 75 in 1994. That's about 35+ years beyond the point at which ballpoints began dominating the market. Defining what we mean by "the fountain pen era" is an interesting question, though. IMO, the fountain pen era ended when sales of ball points eclipsed sales of fountain pens... or maybe in 1958 when BIC bought Waterman. -- B |
#30
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Storing fountain pens with ink in them?
Hi Virgil,
I've been following this thread and thinking about some of the points raised. I'm not a cognoscente nor am I part of the intelligentsia but would like to contribute some thoughts. virgiliopoeta wrote: It is incorrect to assert that modern pens are designed to be stored nib up. In fact, most pens if stored nib up, will slowly clog up even if tightly sealed. Certainly the great majority of pens if left nib up, will not start at once, which is a sure sign of partial clogging. Enough ink adheres to the feed to slowly clog it as successive layers of dried ink accumulate. When you turn a pen nib up, and leave it, not all the ink flows back into the bladder or reservoir. A small part dries in the feed. This is the simplest explanation which accounts for the observed facts, and is therefore most probably the correct one. To my mind, it does not follow that a poor starting pen after being left nib up is a sure sign of partial clogging. It seems more likely the cause is the ink flowing back into the fountain, i.e., reservoir, which you note as a minor factor. The idea of accumulating dried ink clogging the feed does not make sense to me given modern fountain pen inks. (Let me inject here that I assume we are discussing pens used with some regularity.) Since the aniline dyes (or vegetable dyes in the case of J. Herbin) and other additives in modern inks are water soluble, dried ink on the feed would dissolve into solution once ink was flowing through the feed. The only case where this wouldn't happen is when the ink is saturated with dye and additives, which would inhibit the dried ink from dissolving. Therefore, storing a pen with its nib up will not result in an accretion of dried ink except in the case of saturated inks. While there are modern inks with dense solutions of dyes, I don't know of any that are saturated. Therefore it does not follow that dried ink is the cause of difficult starting in pens stored nib up. Further, my experience is that pens with inner caps that seal tightly against the section can be left for weeks with nib up and write the moment nib touches paper. Those of my pens without inner caps can be difficult to start in the morning if left over night with the nib up. Personal experience is anecdotal and may not be applicable in the greater sense, but I think there are pertinent points here. The inner cap seals the nib and feed from atmospheric pressure, thereby preventing ink from flowing back into the fountain through formation of a vacuum. This condition is missing in pens without inner caps, allowing ink to flow into the fountain as the atmosphere flows into the cap replacing the retreating ink. snip In a well-designed feed however, even storage nib down is quite safe. I agree with you here, but it is important to remember there can be no possibility for exchange of air from the reservoir to the outside or the nib will leak no matter how good the feed is, and this includes the Parker 51 with its peerless feed and collector. BTW, you seem to be in good fettle for someone who has been dead for over two-thousand years. ;0) Mark Z. |
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