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safe storage of old books



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 22nd 04, 03:45 AM
dh
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Default safe storage of old books

I have some very valuable old books (1850--1930) as well as some very
valuable newer ones (1940--1975) and bought a small business safe to
store them in. The safe owners manual says that for documents,
humidity can be a problem (because it's a fire safe), and they should
be stored in airtight containers. Can I store my books in airtight
plastic food containers (or any kind of airtight containers--which
ones are best?), or would they be better off in the safe but not in
containers? Or not in the safe at all? What about one of the small
dehumidifying devices they use in museum cases, placed in the safe
with the books not in containers? Any help would be appreciated. And
yes, I'm certain they would be better off locked up than not where I
live. No room for a glass case... Thanks! Dan
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  #3  
Old January 22nd 04, 04:19 PM
Eric Bustad
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Default

dh wrote:
I have some very valuable old books (1850--1930) as well as some very
valuable newer ones (1940--1975) and bought a small business safe to
store them in. The safe owners manual says that for documents,
humidity can be a problem (because it's a fire safe), and they should
be stored in airtight containers. Can I store my books in airtight
plastic food containers (or any kind of airtight containers--which
ones are best?), or would they be better off in the safe but not in
containers? Or not in the safe at all? What about one of the small
dehumidifying devices they use in museum cases, placed in the safe
with the books not in containers? Any help would be appreciated. And
yes, I'm certain they would be better off locked up than not where I
live. No room for a glass case... Thanks! Dan


A fire safe may not be the best place to sort collectable paper items.
The safe incorporates material in its walls that release moisture when
heated to high temps. This protects paper from being incinerated from a
fire, but can still destroy much of the collectable value. Some fire
safes may slowly release some of this moisture into the safe under
normal conditions.

Fire safes (and glass cases) are not burgler-proof. If that is not a
major concern, I would suggest a locking metal cabinet.

= Eric

  #4  
Old January 22nd 04, 05:29 PM
Denise
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Default

Hi Eric,

There was a thread about storing books in safes back in November, titled
"Storing book in safe?" You can find it he

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...om%26rnum%3D11

Books do need to breathe so wrapping them in airtight containers isn't a
great idea. It would tend to trap humidity and may cause deterioration of
the book over time. There is also the chance that the plastic container may
react with the paper.

cheers ~
Denise
--
Empty Mirror Books & Distribution www.emptymirrorbooks.com
modern poetry, the Beat Generation, & the work of Michael McClure

Denise Enck - Quanta Webdesign www.quantawebdesign.com
websites for organizations, individuals, & the arts



"Eric Bustad" wrote in message
...
dh wrote:
I have some very valuable old books (1850--1930) as well as some very
valuable newer ones (1940--1975) and bought a small business safe to
store them in. The safe owners manual says that for documents,
humidity can be a problem (because it's a fire safe), and they should
be stored in airtight containers. Can I store my books in airtight
plastic food containers (or any kind of airtight containers--which
ones are best?), or would they be better off in the safe but not in
containers? Or not in the safe at all? What about one of the small
dehumidifying devices they use in museum cases, placed in the safe
with the books not in containers? Any help would be appreciated. And
yes, I'm certain they would be better off locked up than not where I
live. No room for a glass case... Thanks! Dan


A fire safe may not be the best place to sort collectable paper items.
The safe incorporates material in its walls that release moisture when
heated to high temps. This protects paper from being incinerated from a
fire, but can still destroy much of the collectable value. Some fire
safes may slowly release some of this moisture into the safe under
normal conditions.

Fire safes (and glass cases) are not burgler-proof. If that is not a
major concern, I would suggest a locking metal cabinet.

= Eric



  #5  
Old January 22nd 04, 06:28 PM
Francis A. Miniter
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Default

I have a variation on the problem. I have an important paper-covered
book printed in France on acid paper in the early 1920s. Over time it
has become very brittle. What care should it receive?


Francis A. Miniter


michael adams wrote:

"dh" wrote in message
. com...



I have some very valuable old books (1850--1930) as well as some very
valuable newer ones (1940--1975) and bought a small business safe to
store them in. The safe owners manual says that for documents,
humidity can be a problem (because it's a fire safe), and they should
be stored in airtight containers.



...

Presumably the reason they say this, is because the safe itself
is airtight. The point being that if you open the safe in humid
conditions, and close it again, humid air will be trapped inside.

So basically your problem is always going to be, that you don't
want to store your books in an airtight container, large or small
with excess condensation.

...



Can I store my books in airtight
plastic food containers (or any kind of airtight containers--which
ones are best?), or would they be better off in the safe but not in
containers?



...

As explained above, if you stored your books in a plastic food
container, on a very humid day, its odds on you'd trap moisture
in the container.

Similarly if the books already had a high moisture content, and
you wrapped them tightly in plastic, that moisture would still be
trapped inside them

...



Or not in the safe at all? What about one of the small
dehumidifying devices they use in museum cases, placed in the safe
with the books not in containers?



...

This is interesting. If you put a dehumidifier inside an airtight
enclosure how could any moisture escape?

Actually what you could do, is put some silica gel crystals inside
the safe and these will absorb and hold any excess moisture. You
can buy colour indicator silica gel crystals which change colour
when they are saturated. Use those in a dish.

I think these work inside an airtight enclosure i.e this makes sense.

...



Any help would be appreciated. And
yes, I'm certain they would be better off locked up than not where I
live. No room for a glass case... Thanks! Dan




...

This is always going to be a compromise as the standard advice is that
books should always be stored in conditions where there is good air
circulation. Either natural or artificial.

The advice offered would also take account of the prevailing
moisture content where you lived. If you lived in the Florida Swamps
say it would be different from advice for the middle of the Arizona
Desert. As the books' moisture content would be differnt going into the
safe

The standard advice also is that they should also be inspected
on a regular basis, so as to spot any problems early on.

So you can store them in the standard way, upright in the safe. Along
with a dish of silica gel crystals. Or if you're going to want to inspect
them indivuidually but don't want to do too much fiddling around, you might
want to store them in an open container which you could then just slide
in and out all in one go.

hth



michael adams

...









  #6  
Old January 22nd 04, 06:52 PM
Art Layton
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Posts: n/a
Default

Eric Bustad wrote in message ...
dh wrote:
I have some very valuable old books (1850--1930) as well as some very
valuable newer ones (1940--1975) and bought a small business safe to
store them in. The safe owners manual says that for documents,
humidity can be a problem (because it's a fire safe), and they should
be stored in airtight containers. Can I store my books in airtight
plastic food containers (or any kind of airtight containers--which
ones are best?), or would they be better off in the safe but not in
containers? Or not in the safe at all? What about one of the small
dehumidifying devices they use in museum cases, placed in the safe
with the books not in containers? Any help would be appreciated. And
yes, I'm certain they would be better off locked up than not where I
live. No room for a glass case... Thanks! Dan


Forgot something. Buy extra insurance coverage. See
wwww.collectinsure.com, or check with your personal insurance agent.

Art Layton
Stamford CT
  #7  
Old January 22nd 04, 10:55 PM
Andy Dingley
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:28:47 -0500, "Francis A. Miniter"
wrote:

I have a variation on the problem. I have an important paper-covered
book printed in France on acid paper in the early 1920s. Over time it
has become very brittle. What care should it receive?


Deacidify it. You can treat it with sprays like Bookkeeper yourself
(not cheap, not quick, but they do work) or you can do larger
quantities or whole libraries in a vat process.

Talk to a paper conservator, or at least a supplier of conservation
materials.
http://store.preservationequipment.c...duct.cfm?p=326



The usual storage advice applies to (read the recollections site,
JAIC, or any of the librarian sites)
  #8  
Old January 23rd 04, 05:41 PM
Francis A. Miniter
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Posts: n/a
Default

Michael,

Many thanks to you and Andy. I had no idea such a product was
available. Just to be sure, is it appropriate to use a product like
this with a really rare book?


Francis A. Miniter


michael adams wrote:

"Francis A. Miniter" wrote in message
...




I have a variation on the problem. I have an important paper-covered
book printed in France on acid paper in the early 1920s. Over time it
has become very brittle. What care should it receive?


Francis A. Miniter



...


This is from the FAQ.

Plus being kept in an acid free box perhaps.

http://www.massmedia.com/~mikeb/rcb/

4.2 How Do I Protect My Collection?

[de-acidification spray]

No treatment can reverse the affect of the aging, but spray deacidification
is your best option to slow down the effects of aging on woodpulp paper.
There are currently two products available, Wei T'O and Bookkeeper. Of the
two, Bookkeeper is the best for your type of paper. It also has the added
advantage of being non-toxic and proven safe on inks... just in case the
books have inscriptions. To be safe though, always test first by putting a
drop on any ink you may think suspect. Gaylord (1-800-448-6160) sells the
Bookkeeper in a 38oz pump spray bottle and 16oz aerosol can. The 38oz is
far more economical. It sells for $82.95. Catalog #YA-PT38. Other vendors
also carry the same product. When spraying you will want to thoroughly wet
the pages, but not so that the fluid runs down the page. Just spray, turn,
spray, turn.... Pages will dry on their own relatively quickly. Depending
on the size of your collection, and budget, you might want to contact
Bookkeeper directly. They will process larger batches (multiples of 8).
Their web address is http://www.bookkeeper-pti.com/pti.html. None of this,
however, will reverse the effects of embrittlement and discoloration to the
paper. It will, however, slow down the effect of further deterioration. Not
much we can do about using newsprint... for printing books. [Peter D.
Verheyen]


The Bookeeper Spray is described on here.

http://nt.bnt.com/talas/menu.html?category=124

er, 16OZ. AEROSOL CAN Each $45.00


hth


michael adams







  #9  
Old January 23rd 04, 07:08 PM
John Yamamoto-Wilson
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Posts: n/a
Default

Francis A. Miniter wrote:

Just to be sure, is it appropriate to use a product like
this with a really rare book?


The short answer is yes. I've used it a fair number of times with no
problems, both on printed books and manuscripts. There's a good posting on
this topic at
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byfor...000/09/msg0001
5.html (much more authoritative than what that idiot Yamamoto-Wilson wrote
in the same thread!), and if you go to
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byfor...is/search.html and
search under "Bookkeeper", "Wei T'O" and "deacidification" you'll find a lot
of useful stuff.

--
John
http://rarebooksinjapan.com

 




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