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#1
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Genuine vs. Original. Can you tell the difference?
The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 The seller has been reported on previous occasions, but eBay, as usual, did nothing. This time I am posting photos of the obverse and reverse of a genuine Gangut rouble on alt.binaries.pictures.numismatic. I will be reporting this latest fake to ebay and those who can spot the differences are invited to do the same; in that way readers of rcc can see for themselves if ebay does anything about this crude fake. As this is not one of the better counterfeits, most readers should have little trouble in seeing several differences. One of these fakes, however, is reliably reported to have been sold to a Moscow collector for $3,000. The genuine original is a rare coin and one in proof condition just sold yesterday in a Moscow auction for $9,000. The seller of this fake also has two other Russian roubles for sale but these are common and appear to be genuine. He claims that the 1914 Gangut rouble comes from his wife's grandmother's estate, a nice touch but highly unlikely. He also notes that all sales are final and the coin cannot be returned. RW Julian |
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#2
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Not my day. Meant to say "Genuine vs. Fake" on preceding post!!!!!
RW Julian wrote: The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 The seller has been reported on previous occasions, but eBay, as usual, did nothing. This time I am posting photos of the obverse and reverse of a genuine Gangut rouble on alt.binaries.pictures.numismatic. I will be reporting this latest fake to ebay and those who can spot the differences are invited to do the same; in that way readers of rcc can see for themselves if ebay does anything about this crude fake. As this is not one of the better counterfeits, most readers should have little trouble in seeing several differences. One of these fakes, however, is reliably reported to have been sold to a Moscow collector for $3,000. The genuine original is a rare coin and one in proof condition just sold yesterday in a Moscow auction for $9,000. The seller of this fake also has two other Russian roubles for sale but these are common and appear to be genuine. He claims that the 1914 Gangut rouble comes from his wife's grandmother's estate, a nice touch but highly unlikely. He also notes that all sales are final and the coin cannot be returned. RW Julian |
#3
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On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:44:25 -0500, RW Julian
wrote: RW Julian wrote: The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 The seller has been reported on previous occasions, but eBay, as usual, did nothing. This time I am posting photos of the obverse and reverse of a genuine Gangut rouble on alt.binaries.pictures.numismatic. Sorry, I cannot get ABPN on my news server. But if you could quote the Uzdenikov number here, I will look at the pictures there (I always have trouble locating the commemoratives in Uzdenikov). Another item sold by this seller seems to have been reported as fake (look on www.toolhaus.org for the negs): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=39580784 85 I was going to bid on his Alexander III 1883 Coronation rouble, but now I shall definitely stay away. -- Bob Hairgrove |
#4
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 00:53:11 +0200, Bob Hairgrove
wrote: On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:44:25 -0500, RW Julian wrote: RW Julian wrote: The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 The seller has been reported on previous occasions, but eBay, as usual, did nothing. This time I am posting photos of the obverse and reverse of a genuine Gangut rouble on alt.binaries.pictures.numismatic. Sorry, I cannot get ABPN on my news server. But if you could quote the Uzdenikov number here, I will look at the pictures there (I always have trouble locating the commemoratives in Uzdenikov). Never mind, I found it (Uzd. 4202). It is a very poor fake, indeed. -- Bob Hairgrove |
#5
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"RW Julian" wrote in message ... The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 Bob, what's your take on the extent of counterfeit coins on eBay, especially European crown-size coins? I have seen a few lately that make me wonder - a high-grade Salzburg thaler, Albanian 5 frang ar, Italian 5 lire 1911 and 1914, etc. The ones I have seen look so good. IIRC the same fine folks who brought us thousands of fake SVDBs in the 70s also faked many crowns of Italy and related areas. James |
#6
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Actually, except for the Russian and U.S., I have little direct
knowledge. I do know that it is not safe to buy Italian 5 lire pieces except from an expert but this particular counterfeiting has been going on for decades. If it is rare, and sold by an unknown person, I would avoid it, no matter which country is involved. In particular if it says "estate sale," a private auction, or the coin cannot be returned, the chances of fraud are certainly higher. As to a general answer to this question, perhaps someone who specializes in European crowns could give us an idea of the extent of counterfeiting. RWJ James Higby wrote: "RW Julian" wrote in message ... The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 Bob, what's your take on the extent of counterfeit coins on eBay, especially European crown-size coins? I have seen a few lately that make me wonder - a high-grade Salzburg thaler, Albanian 5 frang ar, Italian 5 lire 1911 and 1914, etc. The ones I have seen look so good. IIRC the same fine folks who brought us thousands of fake SVDBs in the 70s also faked many crowns of Italy and related areas. James |
#7
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James Higby wrote:
"RW Julian" wrote in message ... The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 Bob, what's your take on the extent of counterfeit coins on eBay, especially European crown-size coins? I have seen a few lately that make me wonder - a high-grade Salzburg thaler, Albanian 5 frang ar, Italian 5 lire 1911 and 1914, etc. The ones I have seen look so good. IIRC the same fine folks who brought us thousands of fake SVDBs in the 70s also faked many crowns of Italy and related areas. James It's amazing what can be done with a out-of-production automobile factory, ain't it! ;-) Alan 'don't drive the Torino' |
#8
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What is your opinion of this 1843 rouble? Is it also a fake?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3965884501 I believe it is, but at least one dealer to whom I have pointed this out thinks that it could possibly be genuine. Don't know why, though, because just about everything, from the crummy letter shapes to the crowns on the eagle reverse to the ribbon at the botom of the obverse as well as to the relative distance between SPB and the date, is wrong. It is certainly less obvious a fake than the one you have shown, though. -- Bob Hairgrove |
#9
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On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:32:01 -0500, RW Julian
wrote: The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 The seller has been reported on previous occasions, but eBay, as usual, did nothing. This time I am posting photos of the obverse and reverse of a genuine Gangut rouble on alt.binaries.pictures.numismatic. Here is one which appears to be genuine: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969726097 Unfortunately, the seller ships only to Europe. But perhaps they would make an exception if asked? -- Bob Hairgrove |
#10
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I have noticed this seller (v.kr.) selling Russian roubles on several
occasions and have not seen anything questionable. The following piece, as you say, appears to be genuine. The current price is over 3,000 euros, a good indication of its value on the current market. For those who collect the Russian Imperial commemorative roubles, I am of the opinion that the 1912 Alexander III piece may be rarer than the 1914 Gangut but the Gangut piece has had a stronger fascination for collectors because of the association with Peter the Great. RWJ Bob Hairgrove wrote: On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 16:32:01 -0500, RW Julian wrote: The following Russian 1914 Gangut rouble on eBay is a fake: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...04192 44&rd=1 The seller has been reported on previous occasions, but eBay, as usual, did nothing. This time I am posting photos of the obverse and reverse of a genuine Gangut rouble on alt.binaries.pictures.numismatic. Here is one which appears to be genuine: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969726097 Unfortunately, the seller ships only to Europe. But perhaps they would make an exception if asked? -- Bob Hairgrove |
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