Arrogant Ebay

The Lump wrote:

Frank;

whether you are soliciting via email or soliciting via telephone, the
law is very specific. Once you open up a business relationship with a
customer, you are allowed to solicit offers or other business related
material to this customer. If your customers do not want to be
contacted any further, they must email you telling you this. At this
point, you MUST cease any further solicitation.

Ebay has no right to ask you to cease solicitation, nor, do they have
any right to discipline you in this matter. If I were you, I would
politly inform ebay that you will cease further solicitation with this
customer, however, you will need this customer to contact you
directly.

You may see the specifics in relation to telephone solicitation he

www.donotcall.gov

You don't really believe what you're typing, do you??

The fact that the government doesn't make certain behavior illegal
doesn't mean a private company from restricting you from using their
services if you behave in a certain fashion.

Following your advice would be an almost certain way to insure that the
OP loses his eBay account.

Frank Provasek wrote:

In article , "Tina - AffordableHOST.com" wrote:


"Frank Provasek" wrote


It's not spam if you have a previous business relationship with
someone.


Oh really? Care to point out where you gathered this bit of knowledge from?

--Tina



ALL proposed anti-spam legislation

Existing junk fax laws

Existing do not call laws

And you are of course aware that this legislation doesn't have anything
to do with the user agreement that exists between you and eBay. Saying
"I can't contract away my right to do something because what I want to
do isn't illegal" doesn't mean very much. It doesn't control your
relationship with eBay, and it doesn't control your relationship with
your ISP. Examples, it's perfectly legal to sell Nazi memorabilia, but
you can't sell it on eBay. It's perfectly legal to sell live animals,
but you can't sell them on eBay. Lots of perfectly legal actions are
prohibited by eBay. One of them is contacting people who you had
contact with through an eBay sale in an attempt to sell them other
items, unless they've given you their prior express permission to
contact them.

If you don't like it, don't sell on eBay.

In article , Byron L. Reed wrote:
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:04:02 -0400, The Lump wrote:


Ebay has no right to ask you to cease solicitation, nor, do they have
any right to discipline you in this matter. If I were you, I would
politly inform ebay that you will cease further solicitation with this
customer, however, you will need this customer to contact you
directly.

Bull. They have the right to ask him to do whatever they wish. They also
have the ability to remove him from their system if he does not comply with
the rules we all agreed to.


Are you saying Ebay has the right to ban me from contacting my customers
that I have been sending email to back in the days when my Compuserve
address was 72127,1057 just because these same people have now bought
something from me through ebay?

RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO MINIMUMS http://frankcoins.com
Ebay Powerseller FRANKCOINS Texas Auction License 11259
Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association, Fort Worth Coin Club.
Member: Texas Numismatic Assoc, American Numismatic Assoc.

"Frank Provasek" wrote
THANK YOU for one person seeing the point I am making....


You're still nuts. Now you've got company.

link

To me, it's not a matter of "business legal law," it's a matter of common
respect.

"Frank Provasek" wrote in message
y.com...
In article , "Tina -
AffordableHOST.com" wrote:

"Frank Provasek" wrote

It's not spam if you have a previous business relationship with
someone.


Oh really? Care to point out where you gathered this bit of knowledge
from?

--Tina


ALL proposed anti-spam legislation

Existing junk fax laws

Existing do not call laws

It's obvious you are really well-versed on business legal issues. Try
joining
a trade organization, or the National Federation of Independent
Businesses.

RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO MINIMUMS http://frankcoins.com
Ebay Powerseller FRANKCOINS Texas Auction License 11259
Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association, Fort Worth Coin Club.
Member: Texas Numismatic Assoc, American Numismatic Assoc.

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:55:41 -0500, Richard Ward
wrote:



You don't really believe what you're typing, do you?


The fact that the government doesn't make certain behavior illegal
doesn't mean a private company from restricting you from using their
services if you behave in a certain fashion.

Following your advice would be an almost certain way to insure that the
OP loses his eBay account.


If OP loses his ebay account he will be losing it for complying with
ebay's own rules.

If OP sends emails to pre-existing customers, this DOES NOT constitute
spam due to the pre-existing business relationship. See my reply to
Dave Busch. Understand that I am only citing the law as defined by the
Federal Trade Commission. Also understand that if you contact them,
they will tell you exactly what I am telling you.

OP sending pre-existing customers offers via email DOES NOT constitute
spam. I can cite plenty of anti-spam laws which state this.

If you do not want to take it from me, contact the FTC and ask them.

I don't want to step on any toes, but, what it looks like here is that
all of you loyal ebayers want to take a stand with ebay... even when
they are clearly wrong.

The Lump(AKA Clarence)
......

The Lump(AKA Clarence)

"The Lump" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:55:41 -0500, Richard Ward
wrote:



You don't really believe what you're typing, do you?


The fact that the government doesn't make certain behavior illegal
doesn't mean a private company from restricting you from using their
services if you behave in a certain fashion.

Following your advice would be an almost certain way to insure that the
OP loses his eBay account.


If OP loses his ebay account he will be losing it for complying with
ebay's own rules.

If OP sends emails to pre-existing customers, this DOES NOT constitute
spam due to the pre-existing business relationship. See my reply to
Dave Busch. Understand that I am only citing the law as defined by the
Federal Trade Commission. Also understand that if you contact them,
they will tell you exactly what I am telling you.

OP sending pre-existing customers offers via email DOES NOT constitute
spam. I can cite plenty of anti-spam laws which state this.

If you do not want to take it from me, contact the FTC and ask them.

I don't want to step on any toes, but, what it looks like here is that
all of you loyal ebayers want to take a stand with ebay... even when
they are clearly wrong.


You're citing US laws (which really don't even apply in this circumstance,
regardless) on an INTERNET issue.

No matter how much spammers try to rationalize continuing their crappy
behavior, the overwhelming majority will prevail on this issue.

Spamming is wrong...it costs innocent people/businesses money and is likely
to get you booted off most major ISPs.

--Tina

Hey Frank,

Let me break this one down for you again, and hopefully for the last time.

You post here essentially implying that you wanted advice from us in the
first place. We told you what we thought. Why get mad and defensive now, after
soliciting our opinions? You don't like what you've heard? Then don't ask in
the first place.

You can say anything in the world you want, with all your "legal claims"
and what have you (even though it is well known that they are largely rubbish),
but the fact remains that you ****ed someone off and they reported you to eBay.
So actually, it doesn't really matter how you attempt to justify your case, but
the fact of the matter is, you annoyed someone and they turned you in. This is
something they had all the rights in the world to do as well.

I don't see why this thread is even continuing. It defies all logic and
civil sense. You continue to argue and fight fire with fire, but if what you
are doing is so proper, why do you face so much opposition here, and why were
you reported to eBay? That's something you should think about.

I still believe (and know as a fact, based on your own descriptions) that
you did send spam/unsolicited mail. You may not agree with me here, and I guess
I'm willing to accept that. But what you cannot possibly dispute is that your
actions have upset at least one of your eBay "customers" as well as many on
this newsgroup. I never understood how people can so adamantly defend
themselves after offending others -- what you're basically doing is trying to
tell someone who's ****ed off at you that they have "no right" to be ****ed
off. Do you think they are really going to buy this? Save yourself the trouble
of fighting this futile, uphill battle.

Eric Cheung

The Lump writes:

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 17:55:41 -0500, Richard Ward
wrote:

If OP sends emails to pre-existing customers, this DOES NOT constitute
spam due to the pre-existing business relationship. See my reply to
Dave Busch. Understand that I am only citing the law as defined by the
Federal Trade Commission.

Thank goodness somebody can finally explain the law to Richard.

Clarence, honey, you're citing laws you don't understand in situations
where they don't apply.

Deborah Stevenson
)

The Lump wrote:

I don't want to step on any toes, but, what it looks like here is that
all of you loyal ebayers want to take a stand with ebay... even when
they are clearly wrong.

The Lump(AKA Clarence)


I doubt that eBay really cares if you send messages, however I'm very
glad to hear eBay will stand up for their customer's rights NOT to be
spammed by past sellers.

Obviously someone complained about getting unsolicited ads and eBay
acted in that customer's best interest.