Bidding on eBay

Early every evening, if not preoccupied at work, I surf eBay for auctions
ending today for the collection I am building. Surfing would be nothing but
enjoyment, were it not the shark infested waters of eBay.

Tonight I surfed, but not for long as I found and latched onto an auction
that had 52 minutes to go. If you want to skip the read and view the
auction, go to the link at the bottom.

The auction that stopped my surfing was for a Panama-Pacific commemorative
half dollar, raw. Described as MS-63, very nice album tone, I liked what I
saw, but..... be careful, it's raw.

I paged to the top and saw the bidding at $389. The bidding had started at
one cent with no reserve. With 52 minutes to go, 21 bids. I paged back
down to the image and clicked on it to see the enlarged photo. Dang it, I
don't know enough about the Pan-Pac half. What's with the textured look in
the fields? Toning looks natural. I think. Coin is pretty clean of
surface marks. Back to the auction page and a look at the seller. 99.8%
positive, over 2,000 fb, around since 1999. Page down to read the
description;

"It grades MS-63, the surfaces are very clean and free of any marks, just a
few micro hairlines in the fields keep this coin from a higher grade. It is
an album toned coin with a very pretty natural rim toning, there are some
deep aqua colors on both the obverse and the reverse rims, with untoned
centers. This coin has lots of eye appeal, it is a tough coin to find this
nice. Just a very nice coin, this is a coin worthy of a strong bid. This
coin would make a welcome addition to a high grade set."

Hype? Honest opinion? Honest, accurate opinion? I go back to the enlarged
image. Is the a wear spot on the right side of the eagle's breast? There's
a mark across the shield - I can live with that. Rims!! Remember Bob's
observation with the California a few weeks ago and check the rims. Not too
bad, a few tiny dings- nothing that causes concern. Well, someone has bit
the baby's butt. A couple of small dings there. A couple of marks on the
skirt, a mark on each arm. I can live with the marks, but has that coin
been polished? Whizzed? I better read what Bowers has to say about
Pan-Pacs. Let's see;

"The finish....does not have the typical deep mint frost....but is apt to be
satinlike in appearance....high parts in particular having a microscopically
grainy finish. .... On the reverse the eagle's breast feathers are
indistinct on all specimens, an attribute which sometimes gives Mint State
coins the appearance of having light wear.

"The grainy finish of the pieces makes them difficult to grade. In
particular, it is not easy to determine whether a coin has been lightly
cleaned or subtly polished, ....

"GRADING SUMMARY: Go to the head of the class if you can grade this coin
consistently, for most experts can't. Check Columbia's shoulder.... check
the eagle's breast. The only complication.... Take your time and buy only
a coin that is aesthetically pleasing to you."

Quotes are from "Commemorative Coins of the United States, A Complete
Encyclopedia" Q. David Bowers, pgs 128 & 129.

So now I know the coin could be MS, it could be AU, it could be polished, it
could be cleaned and I know the seller may be an expert and guess what
Bowers says most experts can't do. So reassuring. But, Q. David did tell
me to take my time and buy the coin if aesthetically pleasing to me. I
don't have a lot of time. The coin is ae--- I like the way the coin looks.

I need to dig into this seller's feedback. Looks good, looks good, same-o
same-o. What good is feedback anyway. Whoa, there's a user id I recognize
as a use to be rcc'er and fellow co-defendant. Boy, he showers the praise
on. There's another I recognize and trust from the PCGS US Coin Forum. And
another. This is a positive. People who I know know coins are giving
strong recommendations. Ok, back to the auction page.

28 minutes left, now at $406. I got to go to the bathroom.

When back, I look at the image some more. Nothing new jumps out at me. I
don't like the hairlines both sides of the shield. I wonder if they are die
polish lines. The seller says hairlines keep the grade capped at 63. I
wonder if those are the lines he is talking about. Where's this guy licve,
anyway. Tennessee. Good, not Florida or Missouri.

Ok, if the price doesn't climb too much, I might pop in a snipe bid.
Refresh. 15 minutes, holding at $406. Hmmm, what do the price guides say
anyway? Greysheet says EF-$185b, AU-$345b, MS60-$400, MS63-$580. Soooo,
if AU details, cleaned net EF, I had really like the coin should I bid and
win. The bidding is decently into MS60 range. I don't think I can afford
to bid if other bidders are thinking MS63 money. What am I saying(?), I
can't afford AU money, let alone MS60-63. Ok, gotta figure out how I could
pay for this. Check or money order. Hmmm, check floats in the mail a
couple a days, can't count on float time nowadays except for postal delivery
time. Oops, Friday's paycheck is already spent. A little over $200 in
Paypal I could transfer, given 3 days. $194 on it's way back to me for the
California I returned. I think it is on its way back to me. Uh, $70 from
the PO who lost two of the coins I mailed to winning bidders. Hey, I got
it. Business is good, heck it's great. If I win, I will just give myself a
couple of advances, or a short term loan until I get righted. Ooookaayyy!!!

Now, how much should I bid? Better check the bidder list for clues. No
clues. Refresh the page. $406 with 4 minutes to go. With 22 bidders,
there has got to be some last minute action. A bid in the $400s may not
make it. Somebody is liable to place a bid of $501.xx, as well. I better
go in with $504.12 If I win and it takes all my proxy, I'll come out good
if it is a no problem 63 with that color. If I like the coin in hand, I'll
be all right I think, regardless of the grade, but I worry about the coin
being polished.

So, with 40 seconds to go, I refresh. Still at $406. In another window, I
have my bid of $504.12 ready to confirm. Then someone knocks on the back
door. An employee is close by sweeping and I tell him not to open the door
until he identifys the knocker (We're closed and it's dark outside). He
can't understand the muffled reply when he asks "Who's there?" I say,
"well, they can just wait." 15 seconds to go. I hit the button and don't
wait for a result but go to the back door. I figure out it is a fellow who
did some contract work the night before and I let him in. I growl at him
and explain his knock was poorly timed. I lead him to the office desks,
explaining as I go. I refresh the auction page and I have won, $449 and
change with $8+ shi. The fellow with me asks "what's that?" and is answered
with 10 minutes of explanation, including a look at some of my commemorative
halfs, a look at both last month's California auction images and my image of
the California I returned and a look at John Carney's rcc pages,
specifically my Gettysburg.

Now, after replacing a few fluorescents out in the dining area and typing
this, I need to finish up around here and go home. It's 1:30 am and I have
a half hour or more work to do. Here's a link to the auction;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969957205

large auction image;

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...3412CONSGN.jpg

Bill

"Bill Krummel" told the group about his new coin:
The auction that stopped my surfing was for a Panama-Pacific commemorative
half dollar, raw. Described as MS-63, very nice album tone, I liked what
I saw...

Thanks for a great read, Bill. And congratulations on that new beauty! I
love that kind of toning!

Larry

"Bill Krummel" wrote in
:

snip great story

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969957205

large auction image;

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...780_AH1915SPan
PacMS63412CONSGN.jpg

Bill


Thanks for the fun reading, Bill! My heart was pounding! My hands were
sweating! I was hoping for the hero to snag the coin before it was too
late. Man, 16 seconds to go and he did it! Woohoo! That was better than
seeing the wire cut with 1 second to go before the bomb blows!

That's one beautiful Commem! Great lustre. Gorgeous toning - very ae---,
pretty to look at!

--
Eric Babula
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA

Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention
of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body.
But rather, it’s to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, 'Wow! What a ride!!!'

"Bill Krummel" wrote in message

Here's a link to the auction;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969957205

large auction image;

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...3412CONSGN.jpg

Bill


Nice looking coin, Bill. Let us know what it looks like in-hand. Are you
going to entomb it in plastic? If so, which service?

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks
ANA# R178621
"Life is a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you can
only spend it once!"

Bill Krummel wrote:

major snipage

Now, after replacing a few fluorescents out in the dining area and
typing
this, I need to finish up around here and go home. It's 1:30 am and
I have
a half hour or more work to do. Here's a link to the auction;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969957205

large auction image;


http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...3412CONSGN.jpg

Bill

Bill, I always enjoy your ebay essays. Thanks for taking the time to
write them.

I've heard mixed reviews of this seller on the CU boards, but I think
the good opinions outnumber the bad by a good margin. I've looked at
quite a few of his coins, both early type and commems, but I've never
pulled the trigger. I'm pretty gunshy of raw coins any more and that
seems to be all he sells.

Most of his coins look nicely toned and seem to be NT. However, many
seem a bit too nice and I rarely ever see a white coin or ugly toned
coin offered by him. Maybe he only buys nicely toned coins. I have
always suspected that he enhances the coins or at least the images a
bit. Of course I have no proof, only my gut to tell me this. I am
very interested in hearing your opinion of this coin when it arrives.

Well, he can't be all bad. His name is Randall, after all.

"Ed Hendricks" wrote in message
news:Ept9e.10494$c93.9200@trnddc08...
"Bill Krummel" wrote in message

Here's a link to the auction;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969957205

large auction image;

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...3412CONSGN.jpg

Bill


Nice looking coin, Bill. Let us know what it looks like in-hand. Are you
going to entomb it in plastic? If so, which service?

--
©¿©¬
~
Ed Hendricks
ANA# R178621
"Life is a coin. You can spend it any way you wish, but you can
only spend it once!"

Good question Ed, cuz I don't know the answer. Like Randy, I seldom buy my
classic commems raw any more ( except three times in the last 4 weeks, so I
am living dangerously), so to fit in with my other 22 types that I have I
should get the coin plasticized, although I am not driven to necessarily
have a tidy collection. PCGS or NGC would be my first choices, but ANACS,
with their net grading, would be fine if I thought there were possibilities
of a problem. Anyway, it is unlikely that it will get slabbed soon, but
perhaps if the opportunity presents itself.

Bill

"Randy Thompson" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bill Krummel wrote:

major snipage

Now, after replacing a few fluorescents out in the dining area and
typing
this, I need to finish up around here and go home. It's 1:30 am and
I have
a half hour or more work to do. Here's a link to the auction;

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3969957205

large auction image;


http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/...3412CONSGN.jpg

Bill

Bill, I always enjoy your ebay essays. Thanks for taking the time to
write them.

I've heard mixed reviews of this seller on the CU boards, but I think
the good opinions outnumber the bad by a good margin. I've looked at
quite a few of his coins, both early type and commems, but I've never
pulled the trigger. I'm pretty gunshy of raw coins any more and that
seems to be all he sells.

Most of his coins look nicely toned and seem to be NT. However, many
seem a bit too nice and I rarely ever see a white coin or ugly toned
coin offered by him. Maybe he only buys nicely toned coins. I have
always suspected that he enhances the coins or at least the images a
bit. Of course I have no proof, only my gut to tell me this. I am
very interested in hearing your opinion of this coin when it arrives.

Well, he can't be all bad. His name is Randall, after all.

Dang, Randy, I think you know something on every eBay seller. I am going to
start emailing you with questions before I place my bid. Errr, no, better
not, considering what you collect. Anyway, I received the email invoice
this morning and it is lengthy. I kinda like this part, makes me feel like
the guy has his head screwed on pretty tight;

"Grading - Many of the coins I auction at eBay are on consignment from other
dealers and collectors. Thus they have been graded by them and the grade
also checked and verified by myself. I use ANA and PHOTOGRADE grading
standards. I try my best to grade as accurately as possible. I give you my
best opinion on what I think the coin would grade if submitted to a grading
service. Do I consider myself knowledgeable? - Yes. I have collected since
the mid 60's and have been dealing coins since 1988. Do I consider myself
the world's greatest expert? - No. Grading is an art not a science. Grading
is subjective and can be influenced by ones personal tastes. Opinions on
grade do vary from person to person, dealer to dealer, grading service to
grading service. But YOU have the final say. If you are not happy simply
return the coin. If you are new to collecting or not confident in you own
grading skills. I highly recommend you show the coin to other dealers or
collectors in your area to get a second opinion. That is the reason you have
a 15 day return privilege, take advantage of it."

I won't be returning the coin if in hand it comes reasonably close to
resembling the auction image, regardless of my opinion of grade or problems,
unless the problem is so blatently obvious it should have been mentioned in
the auction description. I think that to date, I have only seen one Pan-Pac
in person, and I wish I had a few hundred slabbed laying in a row to study.

Bill

Bill Krummel wrote:

Dang, Randy, I think you know something on every eBay seller. I am
going to
start emailing you with questions before I place my bid. Errr, no,
better
not, considering what you collect. Anyway, I received the email
invoice
this morning and it is lengthy. I kinda like this part, makes me
feel like
the guy has his head screwed on pretty tight;

Ouch! You've just confirmed my suspicion that I have no life and spend
too much time looking through ebay auctions. I guess I spend too much
time reading coin forums too.

"Grading - Many of the coins I auction at eBay are on consignment
from other
dealers and collectors. Thus they have been graded by them and the
grade
also checked and verified by myself. I use ANA and PHOTOGRADE grading

standards. I try my best to grade as accurately as possible. I give
you my
best opinion on what I think the coin would grade if submitted to a
grading
service. Do I consider myself knowledgeable? - Yes. I have collected
since
the mid 60's and have been dealing coins since 1988. Do I consider
myself
the world's greatest expert? - No. Grading is an art not a science.
Grading
is subjective and can be influenced by ones personal tastes. Opinions
on
grade do vary from person to person, dealer to dealer, grading
service to
grading service. But YOU have the final say. If you are not happy
simply
return the coin. If you are new to collecting or not confident in you
own
grading skills. I highly recommend you show the coin to other dealers
or
collectors in your area to get a second opinion. That is the reason
you have
a 15 day return privilege, take advantage of it."

That does sound like he knows what he is doing and is honest. Or maybe
that's all hype to get you to trust him.

My original opinion was based on images I saw of his more than a year
ago that looked enhanced. My opinion has softened some after hearing
mostly good things on the CU boards, but not yet enough to place a bid.
Maybe I'll watch his stuff a bit closer. Or maybe I'll wait to get
one more data point from you.

I won't be returning the coin if in hand it comes reasonably close to

resembling the auction image, regardless of my opinion of grade or
problems,
unless the problem is so blatently obvious it should have been
mentioned in
the auction description. I think that to date, I have only seen one
Pan-Pac
in person, and I wish I had a few hundred slabbed laying in a row to
study.

The coin looks nice to me, but is that a bit of rub on the baby's back
side? Sometimes it's hard to tell an AU58 from an MS63. A few years
ago I bought a raw half dime described as choice AU by the seller. I
couldn't find the wear when I got it in hand so off to NGC it went
where they called it an MS63. The seller obviously thought he saw
something or he wouldn't have sold it as AU.

I've seen precious few in person myself. I've noticed that they often
come with nice toning like that one so I have passed on several online
because they were too white. I'm getting much pickier these days. It
sure helps on the budget, but doesn't satisfy my coin habit very often.

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:17:08 -0500, "Bill Krummel"
wrote:

Early every evening, if not preoccupied at work, I surf eBay for auctions

Good read, I agree, something most of us can identify with. But you
didn't discuss the seller's return policy, important with auctions
like this. In this case, it's 15 days no questions asked, which is
good. But ... the coin must be received back by the 15th day, and you
can't have removed the coin from the holder. I don't quite know what
the last part means. Presumably the coin is in a 2x2, but what if it's
in a flip. You can't take it out of the flip? How would he know?

Anyway, seems like you got a good deal for a nice coin from a reliable
seller, and most important ... had fun with it.

--

Email: (delete "remove this")

Consumer: http://rg.ancients.info/guide
Connoisseur: http://rg.ancients.info/glom
Counterfeit: http://rg.ancients.info/bogos

"Reid Goldsborough" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:17:08 -0500, "Bill Krummel"
wrote:

Early every evening, if not preoccupied at work, I surf eBay for auctions

Good read, I agree, something most of us can identify with. But you
didn't discuss the seller's return policy, important with auctions
like this. In this case, it's 15 days no questions asked, which is
good. But ... the coin must be received back by the 15th day, and you
can't have removed the coin from the holder. I don't quite know what
the last part means. Presumably the coin is in a 2x2, but what if it's
in a flip. You can't take it out of the flip? How would he know?

Anyway, seems like you got a good deal for a nice coin from a reliable
seller, and most important ... had fun with it.

Darn Reid, you're right. I forgot to address the seller's return policy in
my auction report. I was aware of it while waiting to place my snipe bid,
but it is something important that I forgot about when typing the report. I
do feel comfortable with this seller's auction policies.

Bill