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#11
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Subject: Shows vs E-bay
From: Jon Doyle Date: 11/17/04 5:47 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Hi Jon -- I can tell you that it is VERY true that I sell higher dollar inserts on eBay and leftovers (unsold) do make it to the shows. But saying that aren't you just admitting that the stuff you have at shows isn't as desireable as what you've sold on eBay? Perhaps that's why you're not making as many sales at shows. I guess you really have to determine what is desireable??? I do not carry autos or other higher dollar inserts very often at shows mainly because they sell almost immediately on ebay. As a seller/dealer, my first goal is to recoup my expenses and to make a profit. Both of these things I accomplish, period. I do not understand your comment about my sales at shows? I could bring gold and sell it for 1/2 off the market price and if there are no customers, who am I to sell it to? I rarely lose money doing a show, but any dealer will tell you -- it sometimes happens. I keep really good books on what I sell at shows...and newer product is *not* what I mainly sell. Promotional Cards/sheets account for a large percentage of my sales. Followed by what I consider "blow-out" set sales...to unopened boxes (new and old) and then vintage cards when I have them. Recouping your wholesale cost is a priority! Waiting for the right customer to buy that particular sketch card could take many months. Have you ever seen a near-empty Auto Card binder (or glass case) at any given show? Stuff sits around. Back to the previous point -- the stuff that doesn't sell on eBay sits around. I've been to plenty of shows where all the dealers have autograph cases packed with the same cards. Few dealers stock anything out of the ordinary, and few have harder to find cards on their tables (unless it just happens to be a set that just came out). That said when I do find a table with stuff on it that I haven't been looking at all day I stop and look a little harder -- I know there is potential for me to find something cool on their table. You would be amazed at the number of people that flip through the first couple of pages of my insert books and then move on. My insert books are filled with inserts from many many sets (new and old)...and I constantly ask people what they might be looking for since I actually know what is in those binders. You can't find treasures unless you look..or ask. You say that you walk by a table that you feel will have the same ol' thing...I wonder if you miss opportunities...maybe not...maybe so...many dealers keep product off the table top to save on space/fees. I might be preaching to the choir here... As far as different product...that's why I bring older product whenever possible. But, It's really hard to determine what people might buy at any given show. It may be difficult to figure out what people want to buy, but as a dealer it's your job to know what you can sell. One thing I can say is that there is safety in numbers -- the more you bring - the more chance you have to sell something - If the people are there...and they are there 24/7 on eBay (not at every show I've set up at). I have NO idea what might sell, I'm not a mind reader. As a collector I do my part-- when I find a dealer selling stuff I like I make sure to email them what I'm looking for before I go to a show they are selling at. How would you know what they would bring? Your sentence does not make much sense, unless you are talking about buying something from a certain dealer in the past and contacting them for a future show, correct? I love pre-orders...nothing like knowing that you will have guaranteed sales As far as selling at a show is concerned, I think dealers need to differenciate themselves . . . make yourself stand out in a crowd of people all hawking the same goods. Jon Actually -- I notice many differences between dealers that maybe you do not see. There is no chance that every dealer would have the exact inventory. HERE's an Idea everyone -- CONTACT ME or any sellers coming to Philly in the spring and send a list of what you are looking for. I'll be happy to bring it and will not list the items on eBay since I have a RL sale in the works...I usually price my card inventory at 1/2 off NSU price listings. I only blow out sets that I have 20,30,40 of the same title. I think all collectors would find that dealers are more than willing to work with any customer in the real world (shows) -- we save on eBay transaction fees. Mike Surratt www.mikzcardz.com |
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#12
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Mall shows in Virginia for any type of collectible are not hard to find, hard
for a promoter to get vendors. Most malls have the idea that shows are below their customer base. If you want shows in your local malls tell the management. Than you have to support the shows too. The malls want more money for their space and the vendors can't afford to pay more, without the collectors coming to the shows. This past weekend I sent a representive to a show in Maryland. The dealer room had ten tables. A few were the promoters who was selling off there collection. The cost for tables was cheap, but the autographs were out in left field somewhere. Again, if you want shows in your area, support the shows that you have now. If your malls don't have any show ask them why not? Agin, my 2 cents. |
#13
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There's so many issues, and so many differing viewpoints that have been
expressed in this thread... Many dealers don't sell on eBay very much..we don't. If hard to find cards are sold before a show, it's more likely to our regular customers who buy from us all year round. But even with that, we keep an ongoing inventory..and always have lots of higher end cards available at shows. The other comment I have about this is, dealers have customers year round, and they may set up at many shows. Of course what 'you' see at a show is what is remaining.. We set up at 14-16 shows a year on average. Hopefully we've sold alot at those shows!! No telling where you might meet up with us within that schedule..and what we'll have. I think this issue speaks more to customers developing an ongoing relationship with a dealer or two..so we'll stock what 'you' need and have it with us. My experience, both as a dealer and as a collector, does not match some of the comments I've read. Maybe it's because I'm on the East Coast, and we have the Philly Nonsport Show twice a year..and now the Secaucus Nonsport Show once a year...where there is nothing but nonsport card dealers, and PLENTY of everything to choose from. I suggest that folks here take a look at Nonsport Update's website, and read their Card Talk Forum. Plenty of trading goes on at these shows..collector to collector, dealer to dealer, and collector to dealer. (and thru the Talk Board Trading section as well). We traded all weekend long at the Secaucus NJ show. Obviously,we're only looking for cards we need..but still, trading was fruitful. At the Talk Board you can find 6 pages of pictures of the Secaucus Show. http://nonsportupdate.infopop.cc/eve...851034 47&p=1 It was very well run, great exhibits by manufacturers Inkworks and RIttenhouse, a few celebrity guests, a group of well-known sketch artists, space for trading, free parking, $5 admission..constant raffles with great prizes, lots of comraderie.. an incredible variety of dealers set up there....with a ton of product in all forms, binders, sets, singles, boxes, inserts, costumes, autographs....vintage to current. And there is another thread on Talk Board where folks who attended the show are talking about it..with pretty solid positve reviews. I'll not quite understand why anyone who lives within driving distance (and we drove 6 hours each way to set up in Secaucus) doesn't attend. It is so much fun, seeing product in advance..seeing everything 'live' up close and personal. Being able to shop for everything and anything in one place..and do comparison shopping by walking up and down the aisles of 75 tables full of nothing but nonsports cards. Like being a kid in a candy store again. Nothing like buying on eBay. Now I'm not knocking buying on eBay. Heck, I do it myself. But shows to me are what this 'hobby' is about...not only sitting isolated in a room and reading auction after auction, but interacting with other collectors, sharing the joy and excitement..finding those cards I've wanted for a long time and being surrounded by other folks who can appreciate that!!! ...forming ongoing relationships with collectors and dealers alike. In my mind, nothing will ever replace that. E-Bay may add to that...but never, never replace that. Byrna B&B Grrrl AF & Cards |
#14
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Subject: Shows vs E-bay
From: (B and B) Date: 11/18/04 10:28 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: snip I'll not quite understand why anyone who lives within driving distance (and we drove 6 hours each way to set up in Secaucus) doesn't attend. It is so much fun, seeing product in advance..seeing everything 'live' up close and personal. Being able to shop for everything and anything in one place..and do comparison shopping by walking up and down the aisles of 75 tables full of nothing but nonsports cards. Like being a kid in a candy store again. Nothing like buying on eBay. Now I'm not knocking buying on eBay. Heck, I do it myself. But shows to me are what this 'hobby' is about...not only sitting isolated in a room and reading auction after auction, but interacting with other collectors, sharing the joy and excitement..finding those cards I've wanted for a long time and being surrounded by other folks who can appreciate that!!! ...forming ongoing relationships with collectors and dealers alike. In my mind, nothing will ever replace that. E-Bay may add to that...but never, never replace that. Byrna B&B Grrrl AF & Cards WELL SAID - When I have attended the Philly Show -- I am the kid in the candy store. Before I started setting up a table there, I came anyway to buy product -- mostly for ME. I think the most interesting thing about this topic is the apparent "bad feelings" that some collectors have about dealers selling anything before *they* get the chance to buy it? Ebay is great to move product -- a Show is great to find something you haven't seen in a long long while or that you even new existed. Come on collectors -- back away from the keyboards and go to any show in your area... Speaking of which - I attend many sports shows and do find many nonsport cards hiding out in athletic land. All in All - It is FANTASTIC seeing so many responses to this thread! Mike Surratt www.mikzcardz.com |
#15
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But saying that aren't you just admitting that the stuff you have at
shows isn't as desireable as what you've sold on eBay? Perhaps that's why you're not making as many sales at shows. I guess you really have to determine what is desireable??? I do not carry autos or other higher dollar inserts very often at shows mainly because they sell almost immediately on ebay. But what I'm saying is that is it fair for you to say "The internet has taken a very big bite out of "Real World" retail..." when you admit that you sell your best cards on eBay? Perhaps the bite out of 'real world' retail (for you) would not be so big if you had your best cards at shows. Just a thought -- I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, just pointing out that not everyone is comparing apples to apples here. Jon |
#16
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Jon,
I've resisted selling my good stuff on e-bay, but people just aren't coming to shows with money. If you don't take credit cards you don't sell high priced cards. I've gone to letting people paypal me after the show to sell the cards. I make them leave a deposit and have the rest paypaled to me later. It's just the wonderful economy that we have now. So you either put it up on e-bay and get money back or wait for your customers to pay their bills and pay over time. Most dealers need the money to pay for the next overpriced undervalued product. Dave |
#17
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It's not that I don't feel for you guys. . . and it isn't like one
dealer can change everything, but it's a big picture thing at this point -- in my opinion. Since many dealers do sell their best stuff on eBay (I like buying in person -- you know that, Dave :-) ) it has become the place to go to buy the high end stuff. . . and when someone is looking for high end stuff on eBay they often come across the other stuff they are looking for. The only way to change what is happening online is to change it on a dealer by dealer level. . . you aren't going to beat eBay -- it's just not going to happen, so dealers need to focus on customers, and give people a reason to stop at their tables -- ie. Dave -- he knows some of the things that I like and I know that he has interesting stuff so his table has become one that I plan on spending money at. At the last show I attended Dave was the only person at the entire show to sell me loose cards -- it's not because I ran out of money, or was being picky about what I bought -- it's because he was the only one that had what I was looking for. Unfortunately I am forced to do shopping on eBay 9 months out of the year as there are no dealers around here. Luckily there are a handful of decent shows during the summer . . . actually it's probably good a dealer like Dave isn't set up around here as I'm sure I'd end up spending many times what I currently spend on cards. In that same vein. . . it surprises me how few dealers direct market to people. . . if someone were to send me lists of things I was interested in I'm sure I'd be buying a lot more than I have been -- plus they wouldn't be paying eBay fees, or table fees, and they'd be building a relationship with a customer. . . the only thing I ever get from dealers are press releases on new products. Jon |
#19
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Subject: Shows vs E-bay
From: Jon Doyle Date: 11/18/04 11:28 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: It's not that I don't feel for you guys. . . and it isn't like one dealer can change everything, but it's a big picture thing at this point -- in my opinion. Since many dealers do sell their best stuff on eBay (I like buying in person -- you know that, Dave :-) ) it has become the place to go to buy the high end stuff. . . and when someone is looking for high end stuff on eBay they often come across the other stuff they are looking for. The only way to change what is happening online is to change it on a dealer by dealer level. . . you aren't going to beat eBay -- it's just not going to happen, so dealers need to focus on customers, and give people a reason to stop at their tables -- ie. Dave -- he knows some of the things that I like and I know that he has interesting stuff so his table has become one that I plan on spending money at. At the last show I attended Dave was the only person at the entire show to sell me loose cards -- it's not because I ran out of money, or was being picky about what I bought -- it's because he was the only one that had what I was looking for. Unfortunately I am forced to do shopping on eBay 9 months out of the year as there are no dealers around here. Luckily there are a handful of decent shows during the summer . . . actually it's probably good a dealer like Dave isn't set up around here as I'm sure I'd end up spending many times what I currently spend on cards. In that same vein. . . it surprises me how few dealers direct market to people. . . if someone were to send me lists of things I was interested in I'm sure I'd be buying a lot more than I have been -- plus they wouldn't be paying eBay fees, or table fees, and they'd be building a relationship with a customer. . . the only thing I ever get from dealers are press releases on new products. Jon Hi Jon, actually, I have a non-ebay internet customer base. It is not a large one, but, people do buy directly from me every now and then...even from this newsgroup.. Mike www.mikzcardz.com |
#20
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Why not accept credit cards? It's alot easier now then it was when I got my
merchant account and I don't regret it a bit. And I imagine it'd be easier now since most people have cel phones so calling into the merchant's host to get a credit card authorization is alot easier then before when phones at shows were near impossible. If you take paypal, you're already having fees removed, so it's pretty much the same as a CC account. Lynne "DavesTIB" wrote in message ... Jon, I've resisted selling my good stuff on e-bay, but people just aren't coming to shows with money. If you don't take credit cards you don't sell high priced cards. I've gone to letting people paypal me after the show to sell the cards. I make them leave a deposit and have the rest paypaled to me later. It's just the wonderful economy that we have now. So you either put it up on e-bay and get money back or wait for your customers to pay their bills and pay over time. Most dealers need the money to pay for the next overpriced undervalued product. Dave |
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