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#1
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Is it counterfeit?
A question was posed during a local Civil War discussion that I was
involved in which went unanswered. The topic of the state of Louisiana's seizure of the U.S. Mint and its subsequent control by the Confederate States of America beginning in January 1861 came up and it was noted that mint personnel were forced to strike over two million 1861-O half dollars using the dies that had previously been used when it was under Federal control. This raised the question of whether or not the 1861-O half dollars are technically counterfeit since they were not struck by the U.S. government or under its authority. Any views? |
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#2
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Is it counterfeit?
1865 wrote:
A question was posed during a local Civil War discussion that I was involved in which went unanswered. The topic of the state of Louisiana's seizure of the U.S. Mint and its subsequent control by the Confederate States of America beginning in January 1861 came up and it was noted that mint personnel were forced to strike over two million 1861-O half dollars using the dies that had previously been used when it was under Federal control. This raised the question of whether or not the 1861-O half dollars are technically counterfeit since they were not struck by the U.S. government or under its authority. Any views? The Confederacy considered itself a legitimate, soverign government when it ordered the coins to be struck. Therefore, in the eyes of Confederacy and its sympathizers, the coins were considered of the realm. In the eyes of the Union and its sympathizers, they were considered counterfeit, or at least illegitimate. The surrender at Appomattox did not end this dichotomy, which lingers today, so it is my opinion that there is no answer that will satisfy all. For better or for worse, the coins are a part of U.S. history and numismatics, and that fact is more significant than any technicality that might be raised. James |
#3
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Is it counterfeit?
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... 1865 wrote: A question was posed during a local Civil War discussion that I was involved in which went unanswered. The topic of the state of Louisiana's seizure of the U.S. Mint and its subsequent control by the Confederate States of America beginning in January 1861 came up and it was noted that mint personnel were forced to strike over two million 1861-O half dollars using the dies that had previously been used when it was under Federal control. This raised the question of whether or not the 1861-O half dollars are technically counterfeit since they were not struck by the U.S. government or under its authority. Any views? The Confederacy considered itself a legitimate, soverign government when it ordered the coins to be struck. Therefore, in the eyes of Confederacy and its sympathizers, the coins were considered of the realm. In the eyes of the Union and its sympathizers, they were considered counterfeit, or at least illegitimate. The surrender at Appomattox did not end this dichotomy, which lingers today, so it is my opinion that there is no answer that will satisfy all. For better or for worse, the coins are a part of U.S. history and numismatics, and that fact is more significant than any technicality that might be raised. James I would think that the US Govt today would consider them to be in the same category as early colonial coins, foreign silver, Civil War tokens, etc. -- non-government issues that were at one time accepted in commerce. |
#4
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Is it counterfeit?
Other than noting that most of them were struck by the CSA, and they
have never been considered as counterfeits, not a lot more can be added beyond speculation. -- RARE COIN AUCTIONS NO RESERVES www.frankcoins.com http://myworld.ebay.com/frankcoins Texas Auction License 11259, Board member of Texas Coin Dealers Association, Member TNA, ANA, PCGS, NGC - Full Time Since 1991 |
#5
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Is it counterfeit?
"Frank" wrote in message ... Other than noting that most of them were struck by the CSA, and they have never been considered as counterfeits, not a lot more can be added beyond speculation. Never said they have been or would be considered counterfeit by the government. Just non-governement issues that were used at various times in this country. Like the other examples I listed, coins minted by the Confederacy would not be considered legal tender today. |
#6
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Is it counterfeit?
On Feb 25, 8:12*pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"Frank" wrote in message ... Other than noting that most of them were struck by the CSA, and they have never been considered as counterfeits, not a lot more can be added beyond speculation. Never said they have been or would be considered counterfeit by the government. *Just non-governement issues that were used at various times in this country. *Like the other examples I listed, coins minted by the Confederacy would not be considered legal tender today. I want to thank those who responded. Bruce, you felt that the 1861-0's might be viewed in the same light as colonial coinage or a non- government issue. I searched the rcc archives on past counterfeit discussions and through past posts was able to access the US Code through Cornell University's site. My understanding of Title 18, Part I, CHAPTER 25, prohibits "except under authority of the Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer of the United States, any token, disk, or device in the likeness or similitude as to design, color, or the inscription thereon of any of the coins of the United States..." The 1861-0 is the exact "likeness" to other Seated Liberty half dollars issued during that era, and they were minted and distributed as money without the authority of the Federal government. The way I interpret the code is that the 1861-0 half dollar is a counterfeit. Am I correct or am I reading something into the law that isn't there? By the way, most of my other compadres in our small local Civil War roundtable disagree with me. |
#7
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Is it counterfeit?
"1865" wrote in message ... On Feb 25, 8:12 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Frank" wrote in message ... Other than noting that most of them were struck by the CSA, and they have never been considered as counterfeits, not a lot more can be added beyond speculation. Never said they have been or would be considered counterfeit by the government. Just non-governement issues that were used at various times in this country. Like the other examples I listed, coins minted by the Confederacy would not be considered legal tender today. I want to thank those who responded. Bruce, you felt that the 1861-0's might be viewed in the same light as colonial coinage or a non- government issue. I searched the rcc archives on past counterfeit discussions and through past posts was able to access the US Code through Cornell University's site. My understanding of Title 18, Part I, CHAPTER 25, prohibits "except under authority of the Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer of the United States, any token, disk, or device in the likeness or similitude as to design, color, or the inscription thereon of any of the coins of the United States..." The 1861-0 is the exact "likeness" to other Seated Liberty half dollars issued during that era, and they were minted and distributed as money without the authority of the Federal government. The way I interpret the code is that the 1861-0 half dollar is a counterfeit. Am I correct or am I reading something into the law that isn't there? By the way, most of my other compadres in our small local Civil War roundtable disagree with me. ________________ You're not talking to a lawyer here. If you read something in the US Code that you interpret one way and others interpret another, then I guess that proves the US Code was written by lawyers who wanted to ensure their jobs. If you can prove convincingly that a particular 1861-O half dollar did NOT from the 330,000 struck under the Federal Government, then you have an issue. Otherwise, I guess it can be a fun thing to debate. |
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