Bible coin -- Marine removed from duty over Bible coin reports

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
. ..
This is a canned response she's sent to at least one other group, and no
doubt she'll never read any replies. Which is a real pity.
As if any of the replys had anything of any real intelligence?

Well of course you wouldn't think so.

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
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"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
are
so unlike your Christ. -
Mahatma Gandhi

I like all your quotes, but this one by Gandhi comes closest to my
worldview.

James

Jesus taught love, tolerance and forgiveness.

Christians in the US make my head hurt when they preach nothing but
hate, intolerance and damnation.

JAM
You might expound on what you mean. I dont get that kind of preaching in
my church.

And just which church is that? Where can we learn about their doctrinal
positions? (Except the missionary one...I know all about that one already.)

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
. ..

"James Slaughter" wrote in message
...

Dr. James Slaughter, Adjunct Professor
Criswell College, Dallas, Texas
www.criswell.edu
Listen to our 100,000 watt radio station on 90.9 FM in Texas
or online at www.kcbi.org

Say, Jim...I was wondering if you could tell us why you no longer use
this:

----
Rev. James Slaughter
www.criswell.edu
www.kcbi.org/
www.jewwatch.com

as your sig file, as a simple search will show you have in the past. Is
it because of that last link...you know, the one that leads to that
anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying site? And while we're discussing web
pages, is this one yours?

http://www.shoutlife.com/profile_view.cfm?uid=50173

If it is, I see some commonalities between your web-authoring skills and
your critical thinking skills. I've noticed that you made a post last
year about "Jewish Leaders in the Homosexual Movement", in
alt.radio.broadcasting (http://tinyurl.com/4evfmm) so all of this is
starting to tie together...searches for information about you keep
popping up the same sets of name, not that I believe in guilt by
association...but Frank Provasek, Gary Dorman, bobandcarole, Brian
Oakley, savedgirl. Seems odd to me. (Except for the OT postings, which
are to be expected...after all, you have a mandate from Jesus to force
yourselves on other people.)

Actually you are wrong here. Jesus never said anything about forcing
anyone to believe the Gospel. Our job as Christians is to tell the Gospel.
Its up

Which touches on the very topic that started this mess. I believe that some
of the people who accepted the coins in the first place felt forced. And
actually, -you- are wrong here. I didn't say anything about forcing people
to believe the gospel. Go back and reread our two statements. I said that
you force yourselves on other people...big difference. When was the last
time you, Slaughter, savedgirl or anyone else in that mini axis of evil made
a coin post in this coin group? You're commisioned by Jesus to preach the
gospel. You're also told to make disciples. Are you really going to say that
you're welcomed everywhere you and your missionaries choose to go? I wish
you'd shake the dust off of your feet in this case.

What's more, the "Church" has a long history of forcing people to believe
the gospel (or pretend to believe to save their skins) anyway, so you're
wrong on that count as well. Of course, I suppose you don't regard Catholics
as being True Christians, so....

to God in the form of the Holy Spirit to convict you of your sin. Not
mine. Im just the messenger. If you wish to kill, deride, mock, profane,
etc, the messenger, thats fine. But that doesnt abdicate the
responsibility of the hearer from responding to the message in either
accepting it or rejecting it.

Ah, the Holy Spirit. Is that the same one in Exodus that hardened Pharoah's
heart and denied him free will, causing God to inflict all kinds of death
and suffering for the Egyptian people? Ah, yes...here it is...Exodus 4:21
"...but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go."
That's the Lord, though..not specifically the Holy Spirit. Either way, you
can imagine what I think of both the messenger and the message. And God
bears the first responsibility, by the way...to present a believable,
coherent account for one thing. I'm supposed to take some dead guy's word
for it (decades after the fact) that the Saviour of all Mankind said "(fill
in the blank)"? I don't think so. No one should be imprisoned for second
hand hearsay, much less doomed to an eternity of burning in Hell. I was born
with the ability to reason; it's what comes naturally. I'm not going to give
that up for "faith". As Twain said, "Faith is believing what you know ain't
so."

I also noted that someone else made that exact same gay-bashing post a
few years before you plaigerized it. http://tinyurl.com/4s67q5 . Shame on
you, unless you had permission...or post under different names. (To get
past kill-files?) If so, again, shame on you. At least you layed off of
the Catholics for a while; I'm sure they appreciate that. You remember
those posts...like when you said "Use of a rosary to "pray" to the
"Mother of God" is an unspeakable blasphemy
against Jesus and our Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit."

Actually hes probably right in that it is wrong to pray in that manner.
Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, not to Mary or any other dead
saint.

Actually, it probably doesn't matter what anybody says to their imaginary
friends. I personally don't care what you say about the Catholics; I just
want to ensure that you can never do anything about them other than speak
your mind. That's the crux of the matter for me. We don't live in a
theocracy. Franklin said the Framers gave us "A republic, if you can keep
it." I intend to do my best to not let Benjamin down. Speak your piece, as I
surely will. I'm only following the Biblical injunction to not put the light
under a bushel, after all. You ought to be able to appreciate that.

http://tinyurl.com/52t78p That's marginally better than that time you
said that the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon. (Someone a few
years back compiled a list of some quotes of yours that they found to
be...interesting. http://tinyurl.com/4bo86n)

Again he has a good argument here in that the Catholic Church could very
well the the figurative woman who rides the beast as depicted in
Revelation. Take some time and study the arguments for that.

I have. There are any number of people/entities that could fit the bill. Why
aren't you addressing any of those -other- quotes? For instance, the nasty
stuff about Jews? You just had this little exchange with Leo Marx:

quote

Christians in the US make my head hurt when they preach nothing but
hate, intolerance and damnation.

JAM
You might expound on what you mean. I dont get that kind of preaching in my
church.

end quote

If you and your cronies aren't getting this Jew-bashing stuff from your
church, where are you getting it from? And why are you buying into it? And
if it's just Slaughter's personal position and you don't share it, why are
you not distancing yourself from him? And why isn't he speaking up for
himself?


You've raised a bit of a stink the last few days in various corners of
Usenet, and from what I've read, some people are taking the initiative to
call the college that you claim to be associated with since you're not
listed anywhere at that site, and try to find out the real scoop. (Perhaps
the "Adjunct" title explains that.) I'll be interested to see if you're
legit, or just another liar for Jesus.

What say you?

P.S. Hey...love that Christian walk you've got goin' on there, Brother!
Credibility is -everything-.

WWJD?

Hummm, seems like youve gone a long way out of your way to dig up dirt on
someone here. Makes me wonder what skeletons are in your own closet. I
think Elvis sang a song a while back about cleaning up your own back yard?
Good day,

There's your problem. I didn't "dig up dirt", and these aren't mere
skeletons in anyone's closet. These are statements made by someone claiming
to represent Jesus and "The Good Word". When a televangelist gets caught
defrauding little old ladies do you decry the people who exposed him by
"digging up dirt"? Barring any evidence to the contrary or any impending
denials, I didn't rake any muck...I exposed a liar, a fraud and a bigot. I
again note that you don't distance yourself from them. Is that a tacit
admission of support? Someone called Slaughter, savedgirl et. al. into this
group; was it you? Do you all know each other through your common beliefs?
(As I said above, I kept finding your names in association; you all didn't
just randomly drift into the coin group right at this fortuitous time.) I'd
also like to point out to you that I went looking for that kind of stuff
about Slaughter because, amongst other things, I was pretty confidant that I
would find it. That ought to alarm you. If young Mr. Slaughter is an example
of who you want playing on your team and representing your Lord and God,
you're going to lose in a big way. Take some advice...get rid of him, and
the televangelists.

I have plenty of skeletons, as does everyone else. I'll even help you in
that regard. For example, I've used the same nym for -years-, for thousands
of posts, and there are posts archived out there that I sure wish I hadn't
made; they're findable...I've never posted under any other name. Exhume
away. (And learn a thing or two in the process, hopefully.) But I can face
up to them, and admit them for what they are. I challenged your theistic
friend Mr. Slaughter to do the same...he's failing me miserably. Why should
I trust his judgment in matters of such import as my immortal soul, when I
clearly can't trust him to be a man and step up to the plate here?

For whatever it's worth, though, I can forgive youthful indiscretions.
There's nothing divine in that forgiveness, only humanity; a statement the
meaning of which I'm sure will sail cleanly over your head.

And the final word...why do I bother with all of this crap, when I know I
won't convince you and you won't convince me? Because of statements like
this, from "Professor Slaughter", which you seem to approve of by your
silence...since you don't seem to have looked them up, I'll quote a few of
the more relevant ones..read them carefully:

quote
President Bush was selected by God to lead us in these end times.


I really think most Christians now believe that President Bush is the
regent holding the throne for the true King, Jesus Christ.
Islam is a False religion. Everything Jesus did can be independently
documented. I simply don't believe that any right exists to endorse a
false religion.


The President is our Commander in Chief and has the power to make any
decision he desires in order to protect us.


"Fundies" is a hateful term used by liberals for "Fundamentalist"
Christians who understand that the Bible is the literal word of God,
and MUST be the basis for all VALID civil laws.


end quote

What's frightening is that you guys wrap yourselves in the flag as "True
Patriots" while you dream of trampling people with the Bible in your hand.
What's more frightening is that your other hand is typically holding a
noose.

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message
...

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
are
so unlike your Christ. -
Mahatma Gandhi

I like all your quotes, but this one by Gandhi comes closest to my
worldview.

James

Jesus taught love, tolerance and forgiveness.

That simple sentence is not just the most important tenet of
Christianity, it is the only important tenet of Christianity. Everything
else is politics, with all the evils that nasty word implies.

Christians in the US make my head hurt when they preach nothing but
hate, intolerance and damnation.

Certainly not all Christians, nor even a majority of them, engage in
those practices. The offenders comprise a relatively small group who
feel entitlement (imagine that!) and who are given face time in the media
way out of proportion to their numbers and importance. Others forget
their first century origins, a time when the nascent Christian faith was
shared in small caucus, often via one-on-one. In my view, salvation is
virtually meaningless when it takes place in a corporate or mass media
setting.

James
I believe it was Jesus that said not to stop them from preaching the
Gospel if people are being saved. And even Paul said if the Gospel be
preached out of contention, it is still preached. Salvation is just that,
no matter how God choosed to convey the message.

"Choosed"? Oh well, it appears I am now unplonked, so I won't harass you
too much THIS time.

James

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
are
so unlike your Christ. -
Mahatma Gandhi

I like all your quotes, but this one by Gandhi comes closest to my
worldview.

James

Jesus taught love, tolerance and forgiveness.

How do you know that? How does ANYBODY know that? Faith? Why would
someone so benevolent insist that all of his followers WORSHIP him? What
kind of egotism is that? Or was that someone several centuries later who
came up with that particular requirement?

How do we know Jesus taught love, tolerance, and forgivness? What record
do you have of Jesus, Bruce?

Well, all I seem to be able to come up with is the hearsay, fables, and
other stories recorded in the bible. That would hardly stand up in court as
evidence.

The only record that is identified by the church and the Fathers was the
Gospels. That is the only reliable record that cant really be disputed by
Biblical scholars. As for egotism, I believe you have an incorrect idea
of who you think Jesus knew He was. Jesus was the incarnate God. If God
insists on worship, then its not egotism, my friend.

So how might I have ever developed that idea? A benevolent God might, or
might not, be humbled by such worship-- but he would not insist on it.

"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...

"Honus" wrote in message
. ..

"James Slaughter" wrote in message
...

Dr. James Slaughter, Adjunct Professor
Criswell College, Dallas, Texas
www.criswell.edu
Listen to our 100,000 watt radio station on 90.9 FM in Texas
or online at www.kcbi.org

Say, Jim...I was wondering if you could tell us why you no longer use
this:

----
Rev. James Slaughter
www.criswell.edu
www.kcbi.org/
www.jewwatch.com

as your sig file, as a simple search will show you have in the past. Is
it because of that last link...you know, the one that leads to that
anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying site? And while we're discussing web
pages, is this one yours?

http://www.shoutlife.com/profile_view.cfm?uid=50173

If it is, I see some commonalities between your web-authoring skills and
your critical thinking skills. I've noticed that you made a post last
year about "Jewish Leaders in the Homosexual Movement", in
alt.radio.broadcasting (http://tinyurl.com/4evfmm) so all of this is
starting to tie together...searches for information about you keep
popping up the same sets of name, not that I believe in guilt by
association...but Frank Provasek, Gary Dorman, bobandcarole, Brian
Oakley, savedgirl. Seems odd to me. (Except for the OT postings, which
are to be expected...after all, you have a mandate from Jesus to force
yourselves on other people.)
Actually you are wrong here. Jesus never said anything about forcing
anyone to believe the Gospel. Our job as Christians is to tell the Gospel.
Its up to God in the form of the Holy Spirit to convict you of your sin.
Not mine. Im just the messenger. If you wish to kill, deride, mock,
profane, etc, the messenger, thats fine. But that doesnt abdicate the
responsibility of the hearer from responding to the message in either
accepting it or rejecting it.
B

I also noted that someone else made that exact same gay-bashing post a
few years before you plaigerized it. http://tinyurl.com/4s67q5 . Shame on
you, unless you had permission...or post under different names. (To get
past kill-files?) If so, again, shame on you. At least you layed off of
the Catholics for a while; I'm sure they appreciate that. You remember
those posts...like when you said "Use of a rosary to "pray" to the
"Mother of God" is an unspeakable blasphemy
against Jesus and our Heavenly Father, and the Holy Spirit."

Actually hes probably right in that it is wrong to pray in that manner.
Jesus taught us to pray to the Father, not to Mary or any other dead
saint.

Jesus actually taught you? In my meager Catholic upbringing, priests and
nuns encouraged us to pray to Mary and to particular Saints. I can't
believe all these fine people went against your views. All good Catholic
kids attached St. Christopher medals to their bikes. Their parents often
had St. Francis or Virgin Mary statues in their gardens. Fortunately, there
were no Taliban in my neighborhood.

Bruce Remick wrote:
"Brian Oakley" wrote in message
...
"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...
"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:
"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
are
so unlike your Christ. -
Mahatma Gandhi
I like all your quotes, but this one by Gandhi comes closest to my
worldview.

James
Jesus taught love, tolerance and forgiveness.
How do you know that? How does ANYBODY know that? Faith? Why would
someone so benevolent insist that all of his followers WORSHIP him? What
kind of egotism is that? Or was that someone several centuries later who
came up with that particular requirement?

How do we know Jesus taught love, tolerance, and forgivness? What record
do you have of Jesus, Bruce?

Well, all I seem to be able to come up with is the hearsay, fables, and
other stories recorded in the bible. That would hardly stand up in court as
evidence.

The only record that is identified by the church and the Fathers was the
Gospels. That is the only reliable record that cant really be disputed by
Biblical scholars. As for egotism, I believe you have an incorrect idea
of who you think Jesus knew He was. Jesus was the incarnate God. If God
insists on worship, then its not egotism, my friend.

So how might I have ever developed that idea? A benevolent God might, or
might not, be humbled by such worship-- but he would not insist on it.





You are attempting to define God, He defines Himself.

--
Civis Romanus Sum

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 02:43:39 -0700, "Honus" wrote:

What's more, the "Church" has a long history of forcing people to believe
the gospel (or pretend to believe to save their skins) anyway, so you're
wrong on that count as well. Of course, I suppose you don't regard Catholics
as being True Christians, so....


Has Oliver Cromwell been forgotten so soon? For centuries, in England
and Ireland, it was the Protestants who forced their religion on
people.

It was Protestants, not Catholics, who emigrated to America in the
beginnings of the settlement of this country. Some were escaping
religious prosecution by other Protestants, and some were seeking a
place where their strict doctrinal views could be maintained.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"Jim Higgins" wrote in message
computertechnology...

You are attempting to define God, He defines Himself.


Along with a bunch of other people that think they know what is right for
everyone else.

Brian Oakley wrote:

"Bruce Remick" wrote in message
...

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:

"Leo Marx" wrote in message
...

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians
are
so unlike your Christ. -
Mahatma Gandhi

I like all your quotes, but this one by Gandhi comes closest to my
worldview.

James

Jesus taught love, tolerance and forgiveness.

How do you know that? How does ANYBODY know that? Faith? Why would
someone so benevolent insist that all of his followers WORSHIP him? What
kind of egotism is that? Or was that someone several centuries later who
came up with that particular requirement?

How do we know Jesus taught love, tolerance, and forgivness? What record do
you have of Jesus, Bruce? The only record that is identified by the church
and the Fathers was the Gospels. That is the only reliable record that cant
really be disputed by Biblical scholars. As for egotism, I believe you have
an incorrect idea of who you think Jesus knew He was. Jesus was the
incarnate God. If God insists on worship, then its not egotism, my friend.

Christians in the US make my head hurt when they preach nothing but
hate, intolerance and damnation.

In my experience as a Christian, we were as children taught to FEAR God
and his no-exceptions wrath. We were given a list of sins that could doom
us if we should die with one on our record, regardless of how we might
have lived the rest of our life. We feared the prospect of a stray bad
thought or the envy of a friend's possession. We were warned about what
could happen to us if we did not follow all the rules put forth by God's
church. It was truly hard for kids to believe that God loved us with all
the threats and negativism. We saw little room for tolerance.
Forgiveness was only obtained through a formal Confession.

Im really sorry you were taught all of that. That is so contradictory to
what the grace of God is all about. Grace is about forgivness of your sins,
of the blood of Christ covering your sin so you can stand before the Father
on the day of your judgement without fear, but in confidence that He loves
you, and that you are fully accepted in His eyes because of what Jesus did
for all of us on the cross. That is the point that Paul was trying to convey
in the last part of Romans 7 and the first part of Romans 8. "Therefore
there is NO condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus". Its not about
condemnation, its about forgivness. In the past there were so many churches
and Christians that got it wrong. Doesnt mean they were bad people, just
didnt understand the concept of Grace. Not sure where along the line they
went wrong, but I see a lot of churches getting it right in this and the
last century.
B







what the grace of God is all about

Ignorant superstitions, nothing more.

JAM