Tatarstan Currency Checks

In article (Michael E. Marotta) writes:
....
That said, for many collectors of world banknotes, the issuing
authority has to actually _be_ an authority, otherwise, it is a
fantasy, a cinderella. If you don't draw the line somewhere, you find
yourself on yahoogroups exchanging "micronational" banknotes with 20
people calling themselves nations by virtue of their owning Microsoft
Office and a color printer.

How about Transnistria? As far as I know that has not yet been recognised
by any country. Yet it figures in coin and paper money catalogues. Is
the issuer of those an authority? By what standard? At least East Timor
has for some time already a much better standing.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland; http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

Dik, Transdnistria is backed by Russia. Even though it is not recognized by
any country (including Russia), refer to the acid test I mentioned in a
previous email: It they pay postage and buy things, then they are
"legitimate". The same applies to North Cyprus.

Tony

"Dik T. Winter" wrote in message
...
In article
(Michael E. Marotta) writes:
...
That said, for many collectors of world banknotes, the issuing
authority has to actually _be_ an authority, otherwise, it is a
fantasy, a cinderella. If you don't draw the line somewhere, you find
yourself on yahoogroups exchanging "micronational" banknotes with 20
people calling themselves nations by virtue of their owning Microsoft
Office and a color printer.

How about Transnistria? As far as I know that has not yet been recognised
by any country. Yet it figures in coin and paper money catalogues. Is
the issuer of those an authority? By what standard? At least East Timor
has for some time already a much better standing.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland,
+31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

"Dik T. Winter" wrote:
How about Transnistria? As far as I know that has not yet been recognised
by any country.

It is arbitrary at some point. You, the collector, must decide. I
suppose you could limit yourself to members of the UN, but that would
leave out Switzerland.

Is is not true that Austria actually handles Liechtenstein's postal
obligations?

Andorra and the Euro, now there is an example of unrequited love!

And that old American non-entity the Confederate States of America,
what is that supposed to have been?

Someday, I would like to see a huge numismatic conference just to
wrestle with these tough questions.

Michael
"angels on a pin"

Michael E. Marotta wrote:

It is arbitrary at some point. You, the collector, must decide. I
suppose you could limit yourself to members of the UN, but that would
leave out Switzerland.

Errm, Switzerland has been a member of the UN since 2002. But there are
indeed other "difficult" cases such as Taiwan ...

Is is not true that Austria actually handles Liechtenstein's postal
obligations?

Not sure ... maybe so, but in most economic regards Liechtenstein has
closer ties to Switzerland than to Austria.

Andorra and the Euro, now there is an example of unrequited love!

You mean because Andorra uses the euro, and is currently in negotiations
with the EU about issuing Andorran euro coins? :-)

Christian

The Confederate States of America was not a non-entity.It seceded from the
USA and fought a civil war for four years until defeated by the North. It
issued stamps and currency that were valid in areas under their control.

Tony

"Michael E. Marotta" wrote in message
m...
"Dik T. Winter" wrote:
How about Transnistria? As far as I know that has not yet been
recognised
by any country.

It is arbitrary at some point. You, the collector, must decide. I
suppose you could limit yourself to members of the UN, but that would
leave out Switzerland.

Is is not true that Austria actually handles Liechtenstein's postal
obligations?

Andorra and the Euro, now there is an example of unrequited love!

And that old American non-entity the Confederate States of America,
what is that supposed to have been?

Someday, I would like to see a huge numismatic conference just to
wrestle with these tough questions.

Michael
"angels on a pin"

(Christian Feldhaus) wrote
Errm, Switzerland has been a member of the UN since 2002.
Thanks. Sorry I missed that. Can women vote again?

But there are indeed other "difficult" cases such as Taiwan ...
Ah, yes! Good point. I will always consider Taiwan an independent
nation.

You mean because Andorra uses the euro, and is currently in negotiations
with the EU about issuing Andorran euro coins? :-)

Well, what I was thinking of was that Andorra has its official denar,
but no one ever saw one, as people there actually used pesetas and
francs (before the Euro). So, by that measure, Andorra failed one of
the tests of nationhood. I grew up understanding them to be an
independent principality like Monaco and San Marino and the Vatican,
but, again, for the sake of discussion, if it fails the test, then
what?

Look at it this way, in the area of American banknotes, there are many
so-called "wildcat" banks of the "free banking" era 1812-1861. We
also know of unissued notes. Similarly, from the Great Depression of
the 1930s, there is a whole area of emergency currencies as
collectibles, and again, sometimes unissued notes are offered. Is an
unissued note valid as an example? What if the entity were never
chartered and so abandoned? Is it collectible? My feeling is that (1)
it is not (2) other people may say that it is (3) I might allow an
exception.

Michael
"Broadminded"

Michael
ANA R-162953
MSNS 7935

"Michael E. Marotta" wrote in message
om...
(Christian Feldhaus) wrote
Errm, Switzerland has been a member of the UN since 2002.
Thanks. Sorry I missed that. Can women vote again?

But there are indeed other "difficult" cases such as Taiwan ...
Ah, yes! Good point. I will always consider Taiwan an independent
nation.

You mean because Andorra uses the euro, and is currently in negotiations
with the EU about issuing Andorran euro coins? :-)

Well, what I was thinking of was that Andorra has its official denar,
but no one ever saw one, as people there actually used pesetas and
francs (before the Euro). So, by that measure, Andorra failed one of
the tests of nationhood. I grew up understanding them to be an
independent principality like Monaco and San Marino and the Vatican,
but, again, for the sake of discussion, if it fails the test, then
what?

Where do you get your information? The CIA Factbook lists the official
currency of Andorra as the euro. It is a member oif the UN and eight other
intrnational organizations. Whose test of nationhood did you use.? If it is
OK with the UN, it pases all tests. Where did find out about the "denar"?
Mail to and from Andorra is handled mostly from Spain, but occasionally from
France.

Tony



Look at it this way, in the area of American banknotes, there are many
so-called "wildcat" banks of the "free banking" era 1812-1861. We
also know of unissued notes. Similarly, from the Great Depression of
the 1930s, there is a whole area of emergency currencies as
collectibles, and again, sometimes unissued notes are offered. Is an
unissued note valid as an example? What if the entity were never
chartered and so abandoned? Is it collectible? My feeling is that (1)
it is not (2) other people may say that it is (3) I might allow an
exception.

Michael
"Broadminded"

Michael
ANA R-162953
MSNS 7935

Michael E. Marotta wrote:

Can women vote again?

In Switzerland? Only those that are 18 or older.

(Yes, I know what you mean g. At the federal level they could not
until 1971, and the last Swiss region to let them vote at the cantonal
level did not do so until about 15 years ago ...)

Well, what I was thinking of was that Andorra has its official denar,
but no one ever saw one, as people there actually used pesetas and
francs (before the Euro).

The legal situation in Andorra was a little odd until the early or mid
90s. Today the bishop of Urgell (Spain) and the French president are
officially still the heads of state, but Andorra's new constitution
(1993) established a pretty clear separation of powers in the country.
Those "diner" coins were indeed not made for circulation; maybe the
local businesses would accept them but I have never tried that out. Nice
collectibles though.

What if the entity were never chartered and so abandoned? Is it
collectible? My feeling is that (1) it is not (2) other people may say
that it is (3) I might allow an exception.

Quite possibly the best attitude around g. Asking or knowing about the
status of a supposedly currency-issuing country or authority (like in
the case of these Tatarstan "notes") cannot hurt, but in the end it's
you who decides what you collect ...

Christian

(Christian Feldhaus) wrote:
Errm, Switzerland has been a member of the UN since 2002.

You know, it took a second, there, to figure that out. At first, I
thought you were saying that the Canton of Errm in Switzerland
independently joined the UN. Then I got it, and replied.

Michael
Hand auf's Herz.