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Religion query.



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 6th 09, 06:03 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Rodney
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Posts: 2,814
Default Religion query.


On the left hand stamp of a series illustrating a tryptych
of the altar at Wettenhausen by Martin Schaffner, presumably a baptism,
the ladies are gathering around a grilled hole in the floor,
can anyone explain the meaning of this please?

http://cjoint.com/data/dir7xNchtp.htm

I am surprised this brilliant painter is not featured in Wiki.



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  #2  
Old March 6th 09, 09:00 PM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Tony Vella
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Posts: 584
Default Religion query.

"rodney" wrote in message
news:49b1574a$0$565$a369bfa1@exi-reader...

On the left hand stamp of a series illustrating a tryptych
of the altar at Wettenhausen by Martin Schaffner, presumably a baptism,
the ladies are gathering around a grilled hole in the floor,
can anyone explain the meaning of this please?

http://cjoint.com/data/dir7xNchtp.htm

I am surprised this brilliant painter is not featured in Wiki.




Hi Rodney.

Up to the 1400s many cathedrals in England had anchorite holes. These used
to be "holes" generally some 2 by 3 meters cut into a perimeter wall "within
sight of the main altar" with a hinged grill through which monks/friars
would take care of the basic needs of the anchorite. In some instances
where the thickness of the perimeter walls did not permit for such
dimensions, anchorite holes were cut underground just outside the rood
screen. Visitors and regulars would ask the anchorite to pray for them.
Could the grill in this picture be one of those underground anchorite holes?
I'm not sure this is of any help but it may ring a bell with someone.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://www.amedialuz.ca/

  #3  
Old March 7th 09, 12:53 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Rodney
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Posts: 2,814
Default Religion query.


Thanks Tony,
OE would not open your response, I had to use Google.
That appears to be what it is.
Very interesting, and from whence we get the word "squint"

Appears to have lasted up until Georgian England,
where the rich would sometimes hire "hermits"

See Tony Robinson's "worst Jobs in History"



"rodney" wrote in message
news:49b1574a$0$565$a369bfa1@exi-reader...

On the left hand stamp of a series illustrating a tryptych
of the altar at Wettenhausen by Martin Schaffner, presumably a baptism,
the ladies are gathering around a grilled hole in the floor,
can anyone explain the meaning of this please?

http://cjoint.com/data/dir7xNchtp.htm

I am surprised this brilliant painter is not featured in Wiki.





  #4  
Old March 7th 09, 06:04 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Blair[_2_]
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Posts: 451
Default Religion query.

On Mar 6, 6:53*pm, "rodney" wrote:
Thanks Tony,
OE would not open your response, I had to use Google.
That appears to be what it is.
Very interesting, and from whence we get the word "squint"

Appears to have lasted up until Georgian England,
where the rich would sometimes hire "hermits"

See Tony Robinson's "worst Jobs in History"





Hey Rodney:

I see that you are a Tony Robinson fan also.
I love his various series.

One job he forgot to feature was soaking
modern security stamps and self adhesives
off paper, without damaging them.

Blair

8*)

(waiting to see Tony dig up the first Iron Age
stamp collection, on Time Team.)




  #5  
Old March 7th 09, 08:28 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Rodney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,814
Default Religion query.

Oh yes, "Time Team" is compulsory viewing in our hut, Blair.
I always get the feeling some of the archaeologists oftentimes just wish
Tony would (excuse the French) just "**** off"

If kids do not get inspired with this program, I do not know what would.

I love the guy with the broad Somerset accent, but what is it with these
fellows?
they certainly never seem to get their hair cut.

I would also like to take this opportunity, to thank the Romans very much.



"Blair"

Hey Rodney:
I see that you are a Tony Robinson fan also.
I love his various series.

One job he forgot to feature was soaking
modern security stamps and self adhesives
off paper, without damaging them.

Blair

8*)

(waiting to see Tony dig up the first Iron Age
stamp collection, on Time Team.)





  #6  
Old March 7th 09, 08:33 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Rodney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,814
Default Religion query.


Aha! you may have missed an episode, my dear friend. ;-)

In one episode they indeed unearth letters, not perhaps from
the iron age, but very early, it was around a fort
along Hadrian's wall, from memory they were flat wooden pallets
with letters from home (Rome) including gossip.

The stamps probably fell off with the damp.

"Blair"
(waiting to see Tony dig up the first Iron Age
stamp collection, on Time Team.)





  #7  
Old May 1st 09, 01:56 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
Tony Vella
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Posts: 584
Default Religion query. Rodneeeeeeey!

Hi Rodney.

This afternoon I was having a corned beef on pumpernickle with a Jesuit
friend from Concordia U. when your hole in the ground in the middle of a
church came to mind. A month and a half late, I know. Here's what my
friend mentioned:

Around the 1200s European cathedrals and churches went through a period
where holy water from baptismal fonts and blessing stoups was regularly
stolen and sold for use in Witches' Sabbaths, Black Masses, satanic rituals
and what-have-you. To protect against this, churches had a hole bored into
the floor close to the baptismal font in order that at the end of each day
all the remaining holy water in the church could be gathered and poured down
into the foundations -- returning the water to the earth whence it came.
Such a hole would have a very elaborate and intricate grill cover and, to
the best of my friend's knowledge, was referred to as a Sacrarium.

I hope this opens up a new avenue of investigation for you ... if it helps
at all after all this time.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://www.amedialuz.ca/

"rodney" wrote in message
news:49b1574a$0$565$a369bfa1@exi-reader...

On the left hand stamp of a series illustrating a tryptych
of the altar at Wettenhausen by Martin Schaffner, presumably a baptism,
the ladies are gathering around a grilled hole in the floor,
can anyone explain the meaning of this please?

http://cjoint.com/data/dir7xNchtp.htm

I am surprised this brilliant painter is not featured in Wiki.




  #8  
Old May 1st 09, 03:10 AM posted to rec.collecting.stamps.discuss
rodney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 883
Default Religion query. Rodneeeeeeey!

Any ageing has not dulled your recall Tony
thank you for that,
taking into consideration the attitude of the models
in the painting, and their animation towards the grille,
I would rather remain with the "squint" option.
Sounds more plausible with regards the stamp.

A fine explanation of your colleage, but would not explain the
models interest in the grille, unless the baby was thrown out with the font
water

(Ajman tryptych by Martin Schaffner)

From my readings of papal europe in the 1200's
your colleagues explanation is extraordinary, I understood
the church to be all powerful in all stratas of society, the explanation
would have been
very unusual, and dangerous!




"Tony Vella" wrote in message
...
Hi Rodney.

This afternoon I was having a corned beef on pumpernickle with a Jesuit
friend from Concordia U. when your hole in the ground in the middle of a
church came to mind. A month and a half late, I know. Here's what my
friend mentioned:

Around the 1200s European cathedrals and churches went through a period
where holy water from baptismal fonts and blessing stoups was regularly
stolen and sold for use in Witches' Sabbaths, Black Masses, satanic
rituals and what-have-you. To protect against this, churches had a hole
bored into the floor close to the baptismal font in order that at the end
of each day all the remaining holy water in the church could be gathered
and poured down into the foundations -- returning the water to the earth
whence it came. Such a hole would have a very elaborate and intricate
grill cover and, to the best of my friend's knowledge, was referred to as
a Sacrarium.

I hope this opens up a new avenue of investigation for you ... if it helps
at all after all this time.
--
Tony Vella
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
http://www.amedialuz.ca/

"rodney" wrote in message
news:49b1574a$0$565$a369bfa1@exi-reader...

On the left hand stamp of a series illustrating a tryptych
of the altar at Wettenhausen by Martin Schaffner, presumably a baptism,
the ladies are gathering around a grilled hole in the floor,
can anyone explain the meaning of this please?

http://cjoint.com/data/dir7xNchtp.htm

I am surprised this brilliant painter is not featured in Wiki.






 




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