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#11
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Beck and Goldline International
On May 18, 9:32*pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote:
"Peter" wrote in message ... On May 18, 7:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: Bruce Remick wrote: "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website:http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature. History records numerous panics, recessions, and depressions, all while we were on the esteemed "gold standard." Even gold could be considered "fiat" money, since its value depends on what someone other than I says it is. Don't get me wrong, I like gold, I like its looks, but I have yet to see a well-crafted scenario of what would happen when push came to shove. If somebody decides his loaf of bread is worth a St. Gaudens twenty, very few indeed will eat. The rest will attempt to kill him who eats, and steal his gold AND his bread. James- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that pushing and shoving (and especially killing) is a bit over the top. *In that situation on hopes there are still police. *If not, things are very bad, indeed and exactly which form of money would be best seems too hypothetical to make accurate predictions. The observation that we have a form of social democracy, that our leaders have populist inclinations and have expressed them in concrete terms is enough for the question of stability of prices and a store of value to be discussed. The longer term trend for the price of gold has been clear enough (from $20/Oz to $1200/Oz). *Inconveniently for an argument that we should depend primarily on gold, it has occurred over a time frame that exceeds a normal lifetime. *The case that it is a hedge against a weakening currency is a case that much of the world understands. Admittedly, the US dollar has behaved better than some other currencies and folks who lived in Indonesia, Turkey or Zimbabwe tend to scoff at our fretfulness; even so, perhaps in milder amounts, inflation can happen here. My eclectic choices of items to purchase does not seem to resemble those chosen for the CPI since my expenses do seem to go up a lot and the CPI does not. *Gold has done a somewhat better job of tracking my expenses than the dollar has (e.g., in about 1960 a Piper PA-18-150, new, cost about $5000; today a usable but thoroughly used one costs about $80,000). As for whether the advocates of one position or another have been bribed, ask yourself whether the politicians are themselves pure. My personal interest in gold as a commodity is as a hedge. *I have sufficient cash for my needs. *My theory is that a small part needs to be in something that will hold its value (or at least vary in value in a different way than paper money). *Personally I prefer to keep some coins and some Goerz Dagors. *They certainly won't ward off bullets, but they might be useful in case doubts arise about the value of the various forms of colored paper I have. *My broad theory about the correct proportion in other things is to have enough that it be useful in buying immediate needs and not be a significant (e.g., less that 5%) part of my savings. ============ In any extreme crisis scenario where the dollar actually becomes worthless, one might be better off with a bunker of MRE's, bottled water, and an AK-47 w/ammo.....plus of course any particular Starbucks blend one just can't live without. *That stock of gold kept as an inflation hedge will be of little practical use unless you really need a nostalgia fix. * The process of "buying things" will be a fond memory. *Fortunately, there's a happy ending to this movie. *;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sorry Mr. Remick, but Peter's reply beats yours' by a country mile. You asked "where's the tragic collapse of the dollar?" and he correctly replied that it's already happened, but it has been managed over longer than one person's lifetime. It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in fixed ratios to precious metals. It's easier to be a drunk when the whole world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as distinctly. Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop. You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or revolution. Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side of a period of anarchy to the other side when normality returns. Silver would be a better tool during the bad times, but yes, actually having stored goods for personal use or barter would be valuable too. Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any better??? oly |
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#12
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Beck and Goldline International
oly wrote:
On May 18, 9:32 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Peter" wrote in message ... On May 18, 7:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: Bruce Remick wrote: "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website:http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature. History records numerous panics, recessions, and depressions, all while we were on the esteemed "gold standard." Even gold could be considered "fiat" money, since its value depends on what someone other than I says it is. Don't get me wrong, I like gold, I like its looks, but I have yet to see a well-crafted scenario of what would happen when push came to shove. If somebody decides his loaf of bread is worth a St. Gaudens twenty, very few indeed will eat. The rest will attempt to kill him who eats, and steal his gold AND his bread. James- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that pushing and shoving (and especially killing) is a bit over the top. In that situation on hopes there are still police. If not, things are very bad, indeed and exactly which form of money would be best seems too hypothetical to make accurate predictions. The observation that we have a form of social democracy, that our leaders have populist inclinations and have expressed them in concrete terms is enough for the question of stability of prices and a store of value to be discussed. The longer term trend for the price of gold has been clear enough (from $20/Oz to $1200/Oz). Inconveniently for an argument that we should depend primarily on gold, it has occurred over a time frame that exceeds a normal lifetime. The case that it is a hedge against a weakening currency is a case that much of the world understands. Admittedly, the US dollar has behaved better than some other currencies and folks who lived in Indonesia, Turkey or Zimbabwe tend to scoff at our fretfulness; even so, perhaps in milder amounts, inflation can happen here. My eclectic choices of items to purchase does not seem to resemble those chosen for the CPI since my expenses do seem to go up a lot and the CPI does not. Gold has done a somewhat better job of tracking my expenses than the dollar has (e.g., in about 1960 a Piper PA-18-150, new, cost about $5000; today a usable but thoroughly used one costs about $80,000). As for whether the advocates of one position or another have been bribed, ask yourself whether the politicians are themselves pure. My personal interest in gold as a commodity is as a hedge. I have sufficient cash for my needs. My theory is that a small part needs to be in something that will hold its value (or at least vary in value in a different way than paper money). Personally I prefer to keep some coins and some Goerz Dagors. They certainly won't ward off bullets, but they might be useful in case doubts arise about the value of the various forms of colored paper I have. My broad theory about the correct proportion in other things is to have enough that it be useful in buying immediate needs and not be a significant (e.g., less that 5%) part of my savings. ============ In any extreme crisis scenario where the dollar actually becomes worthless, one might be better off with a bunker of MRE's, bottled water, and an AK-47 w/ammo.....plus of course any particular Starbucks blend one just can't live without. That stock of gold kept as an inflation hedge will be of little practical use unless you really need a nostalgia fix. The process of "buying things" will be a fond memory. Fortunately, there's a happy ending to this movie. ;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sorry Mr. Remick, but Peter's reply beats yours' by a country mile. You asked "where's the tragic collapse of the dollar?" and he correctly replied that it's already happened, but it has been managed over longer than one person's lifetime. It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in fixed ratios to precious metals. It's easier to be a drunk when the whole world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as distinctly. Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop. You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or revolution. Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side of a period of anarchy to the other side when normality returns. Silver would be a better tool during the bad times, but yes, actually having stored goods for personal use or barter would be valuable too. Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any better??? The ammunition shortages are being caused by irrational fears that somehow the gummint is going to confiscate private firearms in the near future (actually, shouldn't we wonder why it hasn't happened already, since these fears were first expressed back in '07?), these fears, of course, being trumped up by the radio talkers. There's just nothing quite like stoking the fires of fear and hate via several hours a day output from the likes of Beck and Limbaugh, and I know plenty of otherwise decent folks right here in North Lugburz who have fallen under their sickening spell. That said, your statement about not being able to use gold during a collapse or revolution has merit. You really cannot predict the course of such an event (viz. the French Revolution, one of history's greatest and most ironic failures), so a resort to survivalism might get you through. How many rolls of papier h will it take to trade for your pound of jerky, mon bon voisin? And don't get any funny ideas, 'cause I know karate. James the Barterer |
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Beck and Goldline International
On May 19, 7:21*am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote:
oly wrote: On May 18, 9:32 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Peter" wrote in message .... On May 18, 7:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: Bruce Remick wrote: "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website:http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature. History records numerous panics, recessions, and depressions, all while we were on the esteemed "gold standard." Even gold could be considered "fiat" money, since its value depends on what someone other than I says it is. Don't get me wrong, I like gold, I like its looks, but I have yet to see a well-crafted scenario of what would happen when push came to shove. If somebody decides his loaf of bread is worth a St. Gaudens twenty, very few indeed will eat. The rest will attempt to kill him who eats, and steal his gold AND his bread. James- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that pushing and shoving (and especially killing) is a bit over the top. In that situation on hopes there are still police. If not, things are very bad, indeed and exactly which form of money would be best seems too hypothetical to make accurate predictions. The observation that we have a form of social democracy, that our leaders have populist inclinations and have expressed them in concrete terms is enough for the question of stability of prices and a store of value to be discussed. The longer term trend for the price of gold has been clear enough (from $20/Oz to $1200/Oz). Inconveniently for an argument that we should depend primarily on gold, it has occurred over a time frame that exceeds a normal lifetime. The case that it is a hedge against a weakening currency is a case that much of the world understands. Admittedly, the US dollar has behaved better than some other currencies and folks who lived in Indonesia, Turkey or Zimbabwe tend to scoff at our fretfulness; even so, perhaps in milder amounts, inflation can happen here. My eclectic choices of items to purchase does not seem to resemble those chosen for the CPI since my expenses do seem to go up a lot and the CPI does not. Gold has done a somewhat better job of tracking my expenses than the dollar has (e.g., in about 1960 a Piper PA-18-150, new, cost about $5000; today a usable but thoroughly used one costs about $80,000). As for whether the advocates of one position or another have been bribed, ask yourself whether the politicians are themselves pure. My personal interest in gold as a commodity is as a hedge. I have sufficient cash for my needs. My theory is that a small part needs to be in something that will hold its value (or at least vary in value in a different way than paper money). Personally I prefer to keep some coins and some Goerz Dagors. They certainly won't ward off bullets, but they might be useful in case doubts arise about the value of the various forms of colored paper I have. My broad theory about the correct proportion in other things is to have enough that it be useful in buying immediate needs and not be a significant (e.g., less that 5%) part of my savings. ============ In any extreme crisis scenario where the dollar actually becomes worthless, one might be better off with a bunker of MRE's, bottled water, and an AK-47 w/ammo.....plus of course any particular Starbucks blend one just can't live without. That stock of gold kept as an inflation hedge will be of little practical use unless you really need a nostalgia fix. The process of "buying things" will be a fond memory. Fortunately, there's a happy ending to this movie. ;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sorry Mr. Remick, but Peter's reply beats yours' by a country mile. You asked "where's the tragic collapse of the dollar?" and he correctly replied that it's already happened, but it has been managed over longer than one person's lifetime. It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in fixed ratios to precious metals. *It's easier to be a drunk when the whole world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as distinctly. Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop. You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or revolution. Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side of a period of anarchy to the other side when normality returns. *Silver would be a better tool during the bad times, but yes, actually having stored goods for personal use or barter would be valuable too. Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any better??? The ammunition shortages are being caused by irrational fears that somehow the gummint is going to confiscate private firearms in the near future (actually, shouldn't we wonder why it hasn't happened already, since these fears were first expressed back in '07?), these fears, of course, being trumped up by the radio talkers. *There's just nothing quite like stoking the fires of fear and hate via several hours a day output from the likes of Beck and Limbaugh, and I know plenty of otherwise decent folks right here in North Lugburz who have fallen under their sickening spell. That said, your statement about not being able to use gold during a collapse or revolution has merit. *You really cannot predict the course of such an event (viz. the French Revolution, one of history's greatest and most ironic failures), so a resort to survivalism might get you through. *How many rolls of papier h will it take to trade for your pound of jerky, mon bon voisin? And don't get any funny ideas, 'cause I know karate. James the Barterer- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Indeed, the French Revolution is probably THE guide for what could happen in a "modern" "civilized" nation gone beserk. Flashing gold during the French Revolution was a quick way to get a free shave by the "National Razor". They say that vendors sold "programs" of the names of those scheduled to be guillotined each day to the crowd gathered to watch. I'll bet the vendors didn't insist on anything other than assignats. Nevertheless, I tend to think that silver dimes, quarters and half dollars will function for the beef jerkey trade. My studies of the German Hyperinflation 1919-1923 make me think that those who had silver coins (and foreign notes and coins) didn't fare badly at all during that period. I balk at suggesting to you (or anyone), mon vieux, exactly what to do because so many business/investment situations that I thought were solid have bellied-up in the last three years. Things that I thought were good also have done a great job of losing five-sixths of their value with amazing consistency. Of course, most of the ones I thought were crappy did not make it either, but my ability to identify the good ones hasn't been stellar. Also, I strongly think that we will do a "double-dip" recession in 2010-11. oly |
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Beck and Goldline International
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:
oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James The old adage is to buy low and sell high. The sad truth is that the vast majority of "investors" buy high and sell low. Now is not the time to buy, it's time to sell. JAM |
#15
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Beck and Goldline International
oly wrote:
On May 19, 7:21 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: oly wrote: On May 18, 9:32 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Peter" wrote in message ... On May 18, 7:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: Bruce Remick wrote: "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website:http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature. History records numerous panics, recessions, and depressions, all while we were on the esteemed "gold standard." Even gold could be considered "fiat" money, since its value depends on what someone other than I says it is. Don't get me wrong, I like gold, I like its looks, but I have yet to see a well-crafted scenario of what would happen when push came to shove. If somebody decides his loaf of bread is worth a St. Gaudens twenty, very few indeed will eat. The rest will attempt to kill him who eats, and steal his gold AND his bread. James- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that pushing and shoving (and especially killing) is a bit over the top. In that situation on hopes there are still police. If not, things are very bad, indeed and exactly which form of money would be best seems too hypothetical to make accurate predictions. The observation that we have a form of social democracy, that our leaders have populist inclinations and have expressed them in concrete terms is enough for the question of stability of prices and a store of value to be discussed. The longer term trend for the price of gold has been clear enough (from $20/Oz to $1200/Oz). Inconveniently for an argument that we should depend primarily on gold, it has occurred over a time frame that exceeds a normal lifetime. The case that it is a hedge against a weakening currency is a case that much of the world understands. Admittedly, the US dollar has behaved better than some other currencies and folks who lived in Indonesia, Turkey or Zimbabwe tend to scoff at our fretfulness; even so, perhaps in milder amounts, inflation can happen here. My eclectic choices of items to purchase does not seem to resemble those chosen for the CPI since my expenses do seem to go up a lot and the CPI does not. Gold has done a somewhat better job of tracking my expenses than the dollar has (e.g., in about 1960 a Piper PA-18-150, new, cost about $5000; today a usable but thoroughly used one costs about $80,000). As for whether the advocates of one position or another have been bribed, ask yourself whether the politicians are themselves pure. My personal interest in gold as a commodity is as a hedge. I have sufficient cash for my needs. My theory is that a small part needs to be in something that will hold its value (or at least vary in value in a different way than paper money). Personally I prefer to keep some coins and some Goerz Dagors. They certainly won't ward off bullets, but they might be useful in case doubts arise about the value of the various forms of colored paper I have. My broad theory about the correct proportion in other things is to have enough that it be useful in buying immediate needs and not be a significant (e.g., less that 5%) part of my savings. ============ In any extreme crisis scenario where the dollar actually becomes worthless, one might be better off with a bunker of MRE's, bottled water, and an AK-47 w/ammo.....plus of course any particular Starbucks blend one just can't live without. That stock of gold kept as an inflation hedge will be of little practical use unless you really need a nostalgia fix. The process of "buying things" will be a fond memory. Fortunately, there's a happy ending to this movie. ;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sorry Mr. Remick, but Peter's reply beats yours' by a country mile. You asked "where's the tragic collapse of the dollar?" and he correctly replied that it's already happened, but it has been managed over longer than one person's lifetime. It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in fixed ratios to precious metals. It's easier to be a drunk when the whole world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as distinctly. Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop. You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or revolution. Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side of a period of anarchy to the other side when normality returns. Silver would be a better tool during the bad times, but yes, actually having stored goods for personal use or barter would be valuable too. Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any better??? The ammunition shortages are being caused by irrational fears that somehow the gummint is going to confiscate private firearms in the near future (actually, shouldn't we wonder why it hasn't happened already, since these fears were first expressed back in '07?), these fears, of course, being trumped up by the radio talkers. There's just nothing quite like stoking the fires of fear and hate via several hours a day output from the likes of Beck and Limbaugh, and I know plenty of otherwise decent folks right here in North Lugburz who have fallen under their sickening spell. That said, your statement about not being able to use gold during a collapse or revolution has merit. You really cannot predict the course of such an event (viz. the French Revolution, one of history's greatest and most ironic failures), so a resort to survivalism might get you through. How many rolls of papier h will it take to trade for your pound of jerky, mon bon voisin? And don't get any funny ideas, 'cause I know karate. James the Barterer- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Indeed, the French Revolution is probably THE guide for what could happen in a "modern" "civilized" nation gone beserk. Flashing gold during the French Revolution was a quick way to get a free shave by the "National Razor". They say that vendors sold "programs" of the names of those scheduled to be guillotined each day to the crowd gathered to watch. I'll bet the vendors didn't insist on anything other than assignats. Nevertheless, I tend to think that silver dimes, quarters and half dollars will function for the beef jerkey trade. My studies of the German Hyperinflation 1919-1923 make me think that those who had silver coins (and foreign notes and coins) didn't fare badly at all during that period. I balk at suggesting to you (or anyone), mon vieux, exactly what to do because so many business/investment situations that I thought were solid have bellied-up in the last three years. Things that I thought were good also have done a great job of losing five-sixths of their value with amazing consistency. Of course, most of the ones I thought were crappy did not make it either, but my ability to identify the good ones hasn't been stellar. Also, I strongly think that we will do a "double-dip" recession in 2010-11. I harbor no illusions that the current "recovery" is anything other than a fool's rally. There are still way too many people who stand to gain handsomely from another market drop. They have the wherewithal to bring it about, and they won't wait until the Dow is anywhere near 14k, methinks. James |
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Beck and Goldline International
Frank Galikanokus wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote: oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James The old adage is to buy low and sell high. The sad truth is that the vast majority of "investors" buy high and sell low. Now is not the time to buy, it's time to sell. O Great Wise and Wonderful Prophet, whither the market? James the Ob'd Servant |
#17
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Beck and Goldline International
Bruce Remick wrote:
"Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature. The only people pushing for a return to the gold standard are those that are heavily invested in gold, like Ron Paul. I think it's hilarious that he named his son Rand. He read a book in his youth and has been infatuated with it ever since. JAM |
#18
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Beck and Goldline International
Frank Galikanokus wrote:
Bruce Remick wrote: "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature. The only people pushing for a return to the gold standard are those that are heavily invested in gold, like Ron Paul. I think it's hilarious that he named his son Rand. He read a book in his youth and has been infatuated with it ever since. Mercy, I never made that connection, but now that you mention it... James, with Slackened Jaw |
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Beck and Goldline International
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:
oly wrote: On May 19, 7:21 am, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: oly wrote: On May 18, 9:32 pm, "Bruce Remick" wrote: "Peter" wrote in message ... On May 18, 7:56 pm, "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote: Bruce Remick wrote: "Mr. Jaggers" lugburzman[at]yahoo[dot]com wrote in message ... oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website:http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James Seems to me that we've had federal fiat paper since the Civil War with no tragic collapse in value so far, and we've gone through some tough times and weak administrations over those 150 years. These current times undoubtedly are among the most challenging for us, but I see no reason to panic about the future value of our dollar. But then I'm not a pessimist by nature. History records numerous panics, recessions, and depressions, all while we were on the esteemed "gold standard." Even gold could be considered "fiat" money, since its value depends on what someone other than I says it is. Don't get me wrong, I like gold, I like its looks, but I have yet to see a well-crafted scenario of what would happen when push came to shove. If somebody decides his loaf of bread is worth a St. Gaudens twenty, very few indeed will eat. The rest will attempt to kill him who eats, and steal his gold AND his bread. James- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I think that pushing and shoving (and especially killing) is a bit over the top. In that situation on hopes there are still police. If not, things are very bad, indeed and exactly which form of money would be best seems too hypothetical to make accurate predictions. The observation that we have a form of social democracy, that our leaders have populist inclinations and have expressed them in concrete terms is enough for the question of stability of prices and a store of value to be discussed. The longer term trend for the price of gold has been clear enough (from $20/Oz to $1200/Oz). Inconveniently for an argument that we should depend primarily on gold, it has occurred over a time frame that exceeds a normal lifetime. The case that it is a hedge against a weakening currency is a case that much of the world understands. Admittedly, the US dollar has behaved better than some other currencies and folks who lived in Indonesia, Turkey or Zimbabwe tend to scoff at our fretfulness; even so, perhaps in milder amounts, inflation can happen here. My eclectic choices of items to purchase does not seem to resemble those chosen for the CPI since my expenses do seem to go up a lot and the CPI does not. Gold has done a somewhat better job of tracking my expenses than the dollar has (e.g., in about 1960 a Piper PA-18-150, new, cost about $5000; today a usable but thoroughly used one costs about $80,000). As for whether the advocates of one position or another have been bribed, ask yourself whether the politicians are themselves pure. My personal interest in gold as a commodity is as a hedge. I have sufficient cash for my needs. My theory is that a small part needs to be in something that will hold its value (or at least vary in value in a different way than paper money). Personally I prefer to keep some coins and some Goerz Dagors. They certainly won't ward off bullets, but they might be useful in case doubts arise about the value of the various forms of colored paper I have. My broad theory about the correct proportion in other things is to have enough that it be useful in buying immediate needs and not be a significant (e.g., less that 5%) part of my savings. ============ In any extreme crisis scenario where the dollar actually becomes worthless, one might be better off with a bunker of MRE's, bottled water, and an AK-47 w/ammo.....plus of course any particular Starbucks blend one just can't live without. That stock of gold kept as an inflation hedge will be of little practical use unless you really need a nostalgia fix. The process of "buying things" will be a fond memory. Fortunately, there's a happy ending to this movie. ;)- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Sorry Mr. Remick, but Peter's reply beats yours' by a country mile. You asked "where's the tragic collapse of the dollar?" and he correctly replied that it's already happened, but it has been managed over longer than one person's lifetime. It is also much more difficult to see the decline when there are no alternative foreign currencies that are based on/ convertible in fixed ratios to precious metals. It's easier to be a drunk when the whole world is the Bowery - you don't stand out nearly as distinctly. Of course, we could still see the remaining 4% or 5% of the dollar's pre-1913 value slip away in one fell swoop. You really won't be able to use gold DURING a collapse or revolution. Gold is the time machine that takes you from one side of a period of anarchy to the other side when normality returns. Silver would be a better tool during the bad times, but yes, actually having stored goods for personal use or barter would be valuable too. Have you noticed that the ammunition shortages aren't getting any better??? The ammunition shortages are being caused by irrational fears that somehow the gummint is going to confiscate private firearms in the near future (actually, shouldn't we wonder why it hasn't happened already, since these fears were first expressed back in '07?), these fears, of course, being trumped up by the radio talkers. There's just nothing quite like stoking the fires of fear and hate via several hours a day output from the likes of Beck and Limbaugh, and I know plenty of otherwise decent folks right here in North Lugburz who have fallen under their sickening spell. That said, your statement about not being able to use gold during a collapse or revolution has merit. You really cannot predict the course of such an event (viz. the French Revolution, one of history's greatest and most ironic failures), so a resort to survivalism might get you through. How many rolls of papier h will it take to trade for your pound of jerky, mon bon voisin? And don't get any funny ideas, 'cause I know karate. James the Barterer- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Indeed, the French Revolution is probably THE guide for what could happen in a "modern" "civilized" nation gone beserk. Flashing gold during the French Revolution was a quick way to get a free shave by the "National Razor". They say that vendors sold "programs" of the names of those scheduled to be guillotined each day to the crowd gathered to watch. I'll bet the vendors didn't insist on anything other than assignats. Nevertheless, I tend to think that silver dimes, quarters and half dollars will function for the beef jerkey trade. My studies of the German Hyperinflation 1919-1923 make me think that those who had silver coins (and foreign notes and coins) didn't fare badly at all during that period. I balk at suggesting to you (or anyone), mon vieux, exactly what to do because so many business/investment situations that I thought were solid have bellied-up in the last three years. Things that I thought were good also have done a great job of losing five-sixths of their value with amazing consistency. Of course, most of the ones I thought were crappy did not make it either, but my ability to identify the good ones hasn't been stellar. Also, I strongly think that we will do a "double-dip" recession in 2010-11. I harbor no illusions that the current "recovery" is anything other than a fool's rally. There are still way too many people who stand to gain handsomely from another market drop. They have the wherewithal to bring it about, and they won't wait until the Dow is anywhere near 14k, methinks. James Cannes: How the bankers fleeced the world Director Charles Ferguson on his smash Cannes doc, which indicts the financial sector as a "criminal industry" http://www.salon.com/entertainment/m...son/index.html JAM |
#20
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Beck and Goldline International
"Mr. Jaggers" wrote:
Frank Galikanokus wrote: "Mr. Jaggers" wrote: oly wrote: On May 18, 2:59 pm, Ken Barr wrote: In article , Frank Galikanokus wrote: Talk show host Glenn Beck and Goldline International, a California-based gold retailer, have colluded to use fear mongering tactics to bilk investors, according to a stinging report issued Tuesday by Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.). Read mohttp://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/37413.html Wow ... a politician accusing a coin deeler and a talk radio host of unethical behavior ... It looks like I'm going to have to trot on down to Target for a new irony meter ... mint just exploded! -- Ken Barr Numismatics email: P. O. Box 32541 website: http://www.kenbarr.com San Jose, CA 95152 Coins, currency, exonumia, souvenir cards, etc. 408-272-3247 NEXT SHOW: Vallejo Numismatic Society 5/2 (no table) The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and if the sellers' wares weren't too overpriced, presumably those "scared-out of-their-shorts" gold buyers have done well recently. Only if they bought at X and sold at Y, where Y X. How many people buy gold for the short term? Likely not the scared/shorts types. If you're NOT worried about the future value of all the fiat government paper and all the shabby government promises, that would be a sign that something's quite wrong with your mental faculties. Being worried and doing something pro-actively about it are two usually-mutually-exclusive activities. How many times over the past two to three years have you suddenly clammed up when I pointedly asked what actions should be taken to protect oneself against those evil things, mon vieux? Just sayin' James The old adage is to buy low and sell high. The sad truth is that the vast majority of "investors" buy high and sell low. Now is not the time to buy, it's time to sell. O Great Wise and Wonderful Prophet, whither the market? James the Ob'd Servant When prices are at historic levels, when the buy, buy, buy messages reaches hysterical levels, it's time to sell. JAM |
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