Franklin Mint offering a Morgan Dollar for $29.95...

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:02:54 -0400, "Scurvy Dog"
wrote:


"tony cooper" wrote in message
.. .
You are not the market for FM. The person who buys that Morgan from
FM would have to look in the Yellow Pages to find a coin dealer and
wouldn't know what coin to pick from the dealer's stash. If he did
find a coin shop, the dealer would probably charge him more for the
Morgan than you'd pay.

You position rests on the shaky surmise that all dealers are crooks.

Not at all. Coin dealers are often willing to negotiate price. A
knowledgeable coin collector may not offer the sticker price unless he
thinks the coin is undervalued, and even then he might dicker. The
FM customer thinks the sticker price is the right price and doesn't
know how to value the coin based on scarcity or condition.

There's nothing crooked about asking $50 for a coin that you are
willing to take $40 for. There's nothing crooked about accepting $45
for that coin even though you were willing to take $40 if offered and
there's nothing crooked about accepting $50 for it if the buyer
doesn't attempt to negotiate.




--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:58:15 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

The person who would buy a $38 Morgan from FM would probably be unfamiliar
with the coin and have no clue of how its true value is based on its
condition. He would also believe that this could be his "last chance" to
acquire one of the "scarcest coins ever" and would be excited to find
himself on the hook for regular approval shipments of similar value. The
person also might be interested in other limited edition Elvis plates and
cute child collectibles advertised in the Sunday newspaper inserts. If
that
person had the wherewithal to actually research the FM offer, he also
should
have had no trouble checking the local Yellow Pages for a coin shop.

Of course he could find a dealer in the Yellow Pages, but the point
was that he'd need to do so because he isn't familiar enough with
coins to know where one was without looking it up.

Thus he'd be a fool to pay $38 for something he wasn't familiar with based
entirely on a glossy come-on ad, in this case for an over-hyped circ Morgan.
Heaven forbid he should have to look anything up first.


Why is he a fool? There are some things you buy just because you want
to have them or like the looks of them. To a person who doesn't
collect or deal in coins, having an old coin may please him. If he
has the money, he's not foolish to spend it on something he wants to
own.

You have the narrow perspective of someone who knows something an area
and an interest in an area - coin collecting - that thinks that
everyone should think the same way you do.

I've been buying art and antiques for my home for decades. I'm sure
I've over-paid for some things, but I don't feel foolish about it.
I've bought things that I liked and wanted to have and I've been able
to afford. If I like a painting I'm not going to research the market
for that particular artist and only buy it if the price is in line
with previous sales of his work. I'm going to buy it if it pleases
me.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

"tony cooper" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:58:15 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

The person who would buy a $38 Morgan from FM would probably be
unfamiliar
with the coin and have no clue of how its true value is based on its
condition. He would also believe that this could be his "last chance"
to
acquire one of the "scarcest coins ever" and would be excited to find
himself on the hook for regular approval shipments of similar value.
The
person also might be interested in other limited edition Elvis plates
and
cute child collectibles advertised in the Sunday newspaper inserts. If
that
person had the wherewithal to actually research the FM offer, he also
should
have had no trouble checking the local Yellow Pages for a coin shop.

Of course he could find a dealer in the Yellow Pages, but the point
was that he'd need to do so because he isn't familiar enough with
coins to know where one was without looking it up.

Thus he'd be a fool to pay $38 for something he wasn't familiar with based
entirely on a glossy come-on ad, in this case for an over-hyped circ
Morgan.
Heaven forbid he should have to look anything up first.


Why is he a fool? There are some things you buy just because you want
to have them or like the looks of them. To a person who doesn't
collect or deal in coins, having an old coin may please him. If he
has the money, he's not foolish to spend it on something he wants to
own.

He's foolish to spend his good money on something he knows nothing about
without first shopping around or doing a bit of homework. Regardless of the
BS in that FM ad, those circ Morgans are not scarce will be available for
close to bullion value for many years to come. What would you call the
person who would spend $150 on a velvet Elvis tapestry he really wanted
without first seeing if he could buy the exact same thing on a street corner
or flea market for $35.00?


You have the narrow perspective of someone who knows something an area
and an interest in an area - coin collecting - that thinks that
everyone should think the same way you do.

That's right. And I won't venture in to the porcelein collector plate or
Franklin Mint tribute arena without first doing some comparative shopping.
It's people with an attitude like yours who keep FM in business


I've been buying art and antiques for my home for decades. I'm sure
I've over-paid for some things, but I don't feel foolish about it.
I've bought things that I liked and wanted to have and I've been able
to afford. If I like a painting I'm not going to research the market
for that particular artist and only buy it if the price is in line
with previous sales of his work. I'm going to buy it if it pleases
me.

You're exactly the type that FM is hoping to attract. People with more
money than time to check things out. You apparently have enough
discretionary cash that you don't have to worry about being ripped off, as
long as you like whatever you buy. I only wish I could paint something for
you.

"tony cooper" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:02:54 -0400, "Scurvy Dog"
wrote:


"tony cooper" wrote in message
. ..
You are not the market for FM. The person who buys that Morgan from
FM would have to look in the Yellow Pages to find a coin dealer and
wouldn't know what coin to pick from the dealer's stash. If he did
find a coin shop, the dealer would probably charge him more for the
Morgan than you'd pay.

You position rests on the shaky surmise that all dealers are crooks.

Not at all. Coin dealers are often willing to negotiate price. A
knowledgeable coin collector may not offer the sticker price unless he
thinks the coin is undervalued, and even then he might dicker. The
FM customer thinks the sticker price is the right price and doesn't
know how to value the coin based on scarcity or condition.

So preying on the ignorance of people is accepatble to you?

There's nothing crooked about asking $50 for a coin that you are
willing to take $40 for. There's nothing crooked about accepting $45
for that coin even though you were willing to take $40 if offered and
there's nothing crooked about accepting $50 for it if the buyer
doesn't attempt to negotiate.

My local coin dealer has F-VF silver dollars in his display case clearly marked
at $20@- significantly less than the FM offers them for.
That price is right out there for everyone to see.
Yes, regular customers may get a few bucks off that price.
Nevertheless, the FM's offering is a gross rip off and bad for numismatics in
general (don't even get me started on the coin dealer cable shows!)

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 12:13:58 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:


"tony cooper" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:58:15 -0400, "Bruce Remick"
wrote:

The person who would buy a $38 Morgan from FM would probably be
unfamiliar
with the coin and have no clue of how its true value is based on its
condition. He would also believe that this could be his "last chance"
to
acquire one of the "scarcest coins ever" and would be excited to find
himself on the hook for regular approval shipments of similar value.
The
person also might be interested in other limited edition Elvis plates
and
cute child collectibles advertised in the Sunday newspaper inserts. If
that
person had the wherewithal to actually research the FM offer, he also
should
have had no trouble checking the local Yellow Pages for a coin shop.

Of course he could find a dealer in the Yellow Pages, but the point
was that he'd need to do so because he isn't familiar enough with
coins to know where one was without looking it up.

Thus he'd be a fool to pay $38 for something he wasn't familiar with based
entirely on a glossy come-on ad, in this case for an over-hyped circ
Morgan.
Heaven forbid he should have to look anything up first.


Why is he a fool? There are some things you buy just because you want
to have them or like the looks of them. To a person who doesn't
collect or deal in coins, having an old coin may please him. If he
has the money, he's not foolish to spend it on something he wants to
own.

He's foolish to spend his good money on something he knows nothing about
without first shopping around or doing a bit of homework. Regardless of the
BS in that FM ad, those circ Morgans are not scarce will be available for
close to bullion value for many years to come. What would you call the
person who would spend $150 on a velvet Elvis tapestry he really wanted
without first seeing if he could buy the exact same thing on a street corner
or flea market for $35.00?

Though your example is rather ludicrous, I would say that this is a
person who knows what he wants and is unwilling to waste his time
cruising around seedy neighborhoods looking for street-corner vendors.
I'd say that while his taste in tapestry is vile, he's at least not
hit rock bottom by wasting his time at flea markets.

You have the narrow perspective of someone who knows something an area
and an interest in an area - coin collecting - that thinks that
everyone should think the same way you do.

That's right. And I won't venture in to the porcelein collector plate or
Franklin Mint tribute arena without first doing some comparative shopping.
It's people with an attitude like yours who keep FM in business

No, it's really people like you who think of things only in the terms
of investment rather than in terms of aesthetics. You hint that you'd
buy a porcelain collector plate if your research showed that the price
was right. I would only buy something like that if I liked it and
wanted to own it. Having never seen anything from FM that I liked and
wanted to own, I've never been concerned about comparative shopping
for their items.

I've been buying art and antiques for my home for decades. I'm sure
I've over-paid for some things, but I don't feel foolish about it.
I've bought things that I liked and wanted to have and I've been able
to afford. If I like a painting I'm not going to research the market
for that particular artist and only buy it if the price is in line
with previous sales of his work. I'm going to buy it if it pleases
me.

You're exactly the type that FM is hoping to attract. People with more
money than time to check things out. You apparently have enough
discretionary cash that you don't have to worry about being ripped off, as
long as you like whatever you buy.

True, and I have no apologies for this. My father, a coin collector
and dealer, brought me up on the premise that the value of any object
is exactly what a willing buyer pays a willing seller. If that
willing buyer is pleased with the purchase, no one has been ripped off
regardless of the price.

I only wish I could paint something for you.

Somehow I suspect you would offer a Thomas Kinkade-type painting
because Kinkade's work has cataloged value despite the fact that his
paintings are completely tasteless and without artistic merit.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

People collect, plates, cars, dolls, etc and know exactly what they
are getting and they want those items. Whats wrong with an Elvis fan
wanting a medal..or a plate? Just because people are hard core
numismatists buying from your local mom and pop dealer does not make
then a sucker. I personally like Franklin Mint medals...new..where I
am the original owner. I dont think my dealer can help me there. I
would never sell unless to clear space. I could care less what the
retail is. There are lots of FM diecast car collectors that think the
same way.

The Franklin Mint has developed some very fine products in its years
of service. The had a staff of the finest artists and sculptors in
the world at one time. And produced exclusive producst not sold by
anyone else. They made many items right in there PA facility. The
fine pewter figurines, silver plates, coins and medals were un
matched.

Yes, the Morgan Dollar ad uses some corny come ons. But like I said.
They owners who directed this ad...former Morgan Mint people...are
gone from the company. This ad is being redeveloped as we speak.

But the price is still not WAY off line. I am sure there are some
dealers that would be cheaper and some would be higher. I like the
presentation and the story. If I wanted to invest in Morgans I would
call up the dealer.

FM has struck some coin of the realm and medallic art that far
surpases the beauty of any US Mint coinage...or that of any other
mint. Have you seen the masterpieces of Rodin? I would chose
that any day over a joke of a US commemorative coin for the boy scouts
that features a girl as the prominant image. Have you seen the
Franklin Mint boy scout medals from the 70's designed by Norman
Rockwell just for TFM? They are superior works of art.

"MKW" wrote in message
...
FM has struck some coin of the realm and medallic art that far
surpases the beauty of any US Mint coinage...or that of any other
mint. Have you seen the masterpieces of Rodin? I would chose
that any day over a joke of a US commemorative coin for the boy scouts
that features a girl as the prominant image. Have you seen the
Franklin Mint boy scout medals from the 70's designed by Norman
Rockwell just for TFM? They are superior works of art.

It's not what they make. It's how they often market it.

"MKW" wrote in message
...
The Franklin Mint has developed some very fine products in its years
of service. The had a staff of the finest artists and sculptors in
the world at one time. And produced exclusive producst not sold by
anyone else. They made many items right in there PA facility. The
fine pewter figurines, silver plates, coins and medals were un
matched.

Yes, the Morgan Dollar ad uses some corny come ons. But like I said.
They owners who directed this ad...former Morgan Mint people...are
gone from the company. This ad is being redeveloped as we speak.

Corny? It's outright misrepresentation. Why have the current owners been
using their predecessor's ad?


But the price is still not WAY off line. I am sure there are some
dealers that would be cheaper and some would be higher. I like the
presentation and the story. If I wanted to invest in Morgans I would
call up the dealer.

The presentation is classic BS and the story....WHAT story? The Morgan
dollar is not among the "scarcest coins ever" and now is not one of the last
chances you might have to obtain one. The ad implies that you will receive
an 1878, but doesn't say so, not that it really matters. The "album"
appears to be a vinyl wallet, not what most people expectn as a coin album.
The coin you receive could also end up as a cleaned G4, yet FM would be
protected by its crafty wording. This cheap tactic is straight out of a TV
infomercial.

Their price is almost double what someone off the street might have to pay
in a coin shop, where the customer can inspect before buying. No dealer
would price a circ Morgan higher and stay in business long. With the FM
deal, you have no idea of the condition or appearance of the Morgan you'll
be getting. And of course there's that "limit" of 3 coins per order,
because they're so scarce no doubt. FM should stick to what it became known
for.

I presume Franklin Mint once was a quality outfit. Today's marketing
approach under the FM name tarnishes that.